Author Topic: Nikki Haley Is Not A Natural Born Citizen of USA To Constitutional Standards – Not Eligible To Be Pr  (Read 2663 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,279
The Post & Email by CDR Charles F. Kerchner, Jr

Nikki Haley Is Not A Natural Born Citizen of USA To Constitutional Standards – Not Eligible To Be President

Both of Nikki Haley’s parents were not U.S. Citizens when Nikki was born. Nikki Haley was born to a Citizen of India father (minus one stool leg) and to a Citizen of India mother (minus the 2nd stool leg).

The normal path to becoming a naturalized U.S. Citizen takes five years. Nikki Haley was born in 1972 . Her father and mother emigrated from India to Canada and then to the USA in 1969. Thus there was not sufficient time for either of Nikki’s parents to become naturalized U.S. Citizens when Nikki was born in 1972. It is not known at this time to this writer if Nikki’s father and mother ever became naturalized U.S. Citizens. Nikki Haley is not being very transparent on this issue. Even if one or both of her parents did naturalize later after Nikki Haley was born, it would not change Nikki’s birth status. Given Nikki Haley’s year of birth in 1972, and her parents immigration year of 1969 to the USA, she was thus born in the USA to two foreign nationals and thus inherited their respective birth nation’s citizenship when she was born, in addition to being a basic Citizen by being born in the USA to aliens legally domiciled here. Thus Nikki Haley was born with citizenship and required national allegiance at birth to two countries. This is hardly what the founders and framers intended when they selected the “natural born Citizen” requirement for the person who would in the future be permitted to be the President and Commander in Chief of our military, once the founding generation was gone.

As per ‘Principles of Natural Law‘ in place at the time of the founding of our country and when the founding documents including the U.S. Constitution were written, a ‘natural born Citizen’ is one born in the country to parents who are both Citizens (born Citizens or naturalized Citizens) of that country when their child is born in the country. See ‘The Three Legged Stool Test‘ for a graphic presentation of this constitutional requirement as to who can be President and Commander in Chief or our military. See this Euler Diagram for a logic diagram presentation of this constitutional requirement.

Nikki Haley is NOT a ‘natural born Citizen” of the United States to constitutional standards since both of her parents were foreign nationals who were NOT U.S. citizens when Nikki Haley was born in the USA. She is missing two legs of the three legs of the ‘natural born Citizen’ test. She is of course a basic “Citizen” at birth per the Wong Kim Ark legal decision by the U.S. Supreme Court of 1898 and the man-made positive naturalization law USC 1401, and as such she is eligible to be a Governor or a Member of Congress, but she is not a natural law “natural born Citizen” at birth, and thus is NOT eligible to be President and Commander in Chief of our military or the Vice President, per our U.S. Constitution. She inherited multiple national allegiances at birth due to her parents being foreign nationals living in the USA when she was born. Nikki Haley did not have sole allegiance and unity of citizenship at birth to the USA and only the USA.

More: https://www.thepostemail.com/2023/01/30/nikki-haley-is-not-a-natural-born-citizen-of-usa-to-constitutional-standards-not-eligible-to-be-president/

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,889

Offline BellyAche

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 323
  • Gender: Female
Good grief. Another one!!!! Don't they read the constitution?  (Trick question.)
 22222frying pan
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,818
Here is the simplified rule:


Anyone other than Donald J. Trump is not eligible to be President.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,361
  • Gender: Male
How about the GOP just boycott pioneer woke bitches like this in the first place.

I will actively do everything in my power to doom her chances.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline The_Reader_David

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,275
For the love of all that is holy, drop this.

It is clear from precedent that the relevant interpretation for the "natural born citizen" clause is Blackstone, not Vattel.  The notion is a republican analogue of Blackstone's "natural born subject", and thus anyone who from the moment of birth has been a U.S. citizen is a natural born citizen, Nikki Haley and Ted Cruz included.

The only reason Obama's place of birth mattered was that under citizenship law prevailing at the time of his birth, due to his mother's age, had he been born outside the U.S. he would not have been a natural born citizen (and for that matter, not a citizen at all, since he did not go through a naturalization process). 
And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,889
For the love of all that is holy, drop this.

It is clear from precedent that the relevant interpretation for the "natural born citizen" clause is Blackstone, not Vattel.  The notion is a republican analogue of Blackstone's "natural born subject", and thus anyone who from the moment of birth has been a U.S. citizen is a natural born citizen, Nikki Haley and Ted Cruz included.

The only reason Obama's place of birth mattered was that under citizenship law prevailing at the time of his birth, due to his mother's age, had he been born outside the U.S. he would not have been a natural born citizen (and for that matter, not a citizen at all, since he did not go through a naturalization process). 

:thumbsup:

Online Maj. Bill Martin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,710
  • Gender: Male
  • I'll make Mincemeat out of 'em"
For the love of all that is holy, drop this.

It is clear from precedent that the relevant interpretation for the "natural born citizen" clause is Blackstone, not Vattel.  The notion is a republican analogue of Blackstone's "natural born subject", and thus anyone who from the moment of birth has been a U.S. citizen is a natural born citizen, Nikki Haley and Ted Cruz included.




Exactly.  We always had, and still do have, a common law system.  Every single one of the 13 original colonies based their legal system in the English common law, which means Blackstone.

The argument that we should instead assume that the ratifiers in each colony somehow just "knew" that Blackstone was being ditched in favor of some Swiss guy is ridiculous.

In any case, even under de Vattel, there was no distinction between being a citizen at birth and a natural born citizen.   So the 14th Amendment wipes out the entire argument anyway.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,331
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
For the love of all that is holy, drop this.

It is clear from precedent that the relevant interpretation for the "natural born citizen" clause is Blackstone, not Vattel.  The notion is a republican analogue of Blackstone's "natural born subject", and thus anyone who from the moment of birth has been a U.S. citizen is a natural born citizen, Nikki Haley and Ted Cruz included.

The only reason Obama's place of birth mattered was that under citizenship law prevailing at the time of his birth, due to his mother's age, had he been born outside the U.S. he would not have been a natural born citizen (and for that matter, not a citizen at all, since he did not go through a naturalization process).

No sir, I will not! Nor will I drop any other part of our constitution.

And BTW: The man who annotated Blackstone for our Constitution (St. George Tucker) strongly disagrees.


https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a2_1_1s18.html
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 11:06:02 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
For the love of all that is holy, drop this.

It is clear from precedent that the relevant interpretation for the "natural born citizen" clause is Blackstone, not Vattel.  The notion is a republican analogue of Blackstone's "natural born subject", and thus anyone who from the moment of birth has been a U.S. citizen is a natural born citizen, Nikki Haley and Ted Cruz included.

The only reason Obama's place of birth mattered was that under citizenship law prevailing at the time of his birth, due to his mother's age, had he been born outside the U.S. he would not have been a natural born citizen (and for that matter, not a citizen at all, since he did not go through a naturalization process).

That's right.

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,889



Exactly.  We always had, and still do have, a common law system.  Every single one of the 13 original colonies based their legal system in the English common law, which means Blackstone.

The argument that we should instead assume that the ratifiers in each colony somehow just "knew" that Blackstone was being ditched in favor of some Swiss guy is ridiculous.

In any case, even under de Vattel, there was no distinction between being a citizen at birth and a natural born citizen.   So the 14th Amendment wipes out the entire argument anyway.

:thumbsup:

Offline Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,355
  • Gender: Male
  • Dumbest member of the forum
Agreed with Bigun.

Haley is NOT a "natural born citizen".

Nor is kamala sutra, for that matter. But seems no one is talking about that.

Of course, obama wasn't, either. The case against him failed because no one in a position to make such a claim stick would pursue it.

HINT:
Ms Haley is goin' nowhere as a presidential candidate, but if she suddenly started to make hay -- watch the leftists and the commie-media jump on this issue, pronto!

Offline berdie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,607
For the love of all that is holy, drop this.

It is clear from precedent that the relevant interpretation for the "natural born citizen" clause is Blackstone, not Vattel.  The notion is a republican analogue of Blackstone's "natural born subject", and thus anyone who from the moment of birth has been a U.S. citizen is a natural born citizen, Nikki Haley and Ted Cruz included.

The only reason Obama's place of birth mattered was that under citizenship law prevailing at the time of his birth, due to his mother's age, had he been born outside the U.S. he would not have been a natural born citizen (and for that matter, not a citizen at all, since he did not go through a naturalization process).



As I understand it, a person born on US soil is a citizen. Or of a US citizen in any country. I don't necessarily agree due to the large number of immigrants that come here and have babies. It is a misinterpretation of the 14th that should be revisited.

As far as Barry goes, he was most likely born on US soil. jmho BUT, he was adopted by an Indonesian step father conveying  Indonesian citizenship. Hence, the sealed records.

So it seems that Haley was born here. Cruz was born in Canada to a US citizen. Much like McCain was born in Panama (?) but was still a citizen.

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,818
Barry Goldwater wasn't born in the US, but no one ever suggested that he was ineligible.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,331
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Barry Goldwater wasn't born in the US, but no one ever suggested that he was ineligible.

Barry Goldwater was born in Phoenix Arizonia (a U.S. Territory at the time) and BOTH of his parents were U. S. citizens at the time of his birth.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,397
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.


As I understand it, a person born on US soil is a citizen. Or of a US citizen in any country. I don't necessarily agree due to the large number of immigrants that come here and have babies. It is a misinterpretation of the 14th that should be revisited.

As far as Barry goes, he was most likely born on US soil. jmho BUT, he was adopted by an Indonesian step father conveying  Indonesian citizenship. Hence, the sealed records.

So it seems that Haley was born here. Cruz was born in Canada to a US citizen. Much like McCain was born in Panama (?) but was still a citizen.
The crux of the matter boils down to whether they are born to US citizens, hence the term "Natural Born Citizen". Haley's parents were neither US citizens at the time of her birth.
 If you use the 14th and being 'born here' as the standard, A Saudi who brought his wife here on a visit while pregnant could be the father of the next US President in 35 years.
With the jealous guarding against foreign influence in government, especially in those early days when the colonial aspirations of Europe might be well served by insinuating one merely born here into a position of power and influence on the fate of the newly formed Union, and with the War of 1812 yet to affirm our independence, the thought that such foreign interests should be prevented was sound, as it remains to this day.
No, Obama didn't qualify, either, imho. The problem is that so many (especially in Media) were willing to ignore that fact and suppress it when possible, does not make it right.
But, as we have seen since, the best interests of the American People, and the Republic, are definitely not foremost in the eyes of those who control media content.

Had the American people been given an honest and critical accounting of the situation I do not believe we'd be in the state the Republic is in, one which will persist until we start following our own Law.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,818
Barry Goldwater was born in Phoenix Arizonia (a U.S. Territory at the time) and BOTH of his parents were U. S. citizens at the time of his birth.

Where were his parents born?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,331
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Where were his parents born?

Father; Los Angeles, California. Mother; Bowen Illinois.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,818
Father; Los Angeles, California. Mother; Bowen Illinois.

Yeah, I figured dad was born in California.  Point made.  How much different this country would have turned out had Goldwater won in 1964.  Instead, half a million of our best hope for the future got sent to Vietnam to fight a war they were not allowed to win.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online Maj. Bill Martin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,710
  • Gender: Male
  • I'll make Mincemeat out of 'em"
The crux of the matter boils down to whether they are born to US citizens, hence the term "Natural Born Citizen". Haley's parents were neither US citizens at the time of her birth.

And I think the crux of the matter boils down to whether or not you, not your parents, were a citizen at birth, hence the term "natural born citizen."   Now of course, there were different rules for citizenship in the 18th century than there were later, but there was no distinction drawn between being born a citizen, and being a natural born citizen even back then.
   
Quote
If you use the 14th and being 'born here' as the standard, A Saudi who brought his wife here on a visit while pregnant could be the father of the next US President in 35 years.

And yet under your standard, a child born to U.S. citizens in China, who never even visited the U.S., would be eligible to be President despite never having lived here.  Is that really any better?

Perhaps the 14th Amendment wasn't wise, but that doesn't make it any less valid.  And I think trying to argue that someone born a citizen isn't a natural born citizen ends up as pretzel logic.

Online DefiantMassRINO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,942
  • Gender: Male
Nikki Haley will need to show us a long-form birth certificate.

 ////00000////

Is someone delivered by Cesarean section "naturally born"?

Is some conceived using artificial means "naturally born"?

Self-Annointed Deplorable Expert Chowderhead Pundit

I reserve my God-given rights to be wrong and to be stupid at all times.
"If at first you don’t succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried." - Steven Wright

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,331
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
And I think the crux of the matter boils down to whether or not you, not your parents, were a citizen at birth, hence the term "natural born citizen."   Now of course, there were different rules for citizenship in the 18th century than there were later, but there was no distinction drawn between being born a citizen, and being a natural born citizen even back then.
   
And yet under your standard, a child born to U.S. citizens in China, who never even visited the U.S., would be eligible to be President despite never having lived here.  Is that really any better?

Perhaps the 14th Amendment wasn't wise, but that doesn't make it any less valid.  And I think trying to argue that someone born a citizen isn't a natural born citizen ends up as pretzel logic.

BS! 100% USDA Choice and the plain words of the constitution itself bear witness.

Quote
"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;...
"
[/size]

Quote
That provision in the constitution which requires that the president shall be a native-born citizen (unless he were a citizen of the United States when the constitution was adopted,) is a happy means of security against foreign influence, which, where-ever it is capable of being exerted, is to be dreaded more than the plague. The admission of foreigners into our councils, consequently, cannot be too much guarded against; their total exclusion from a station to which foreign nations have been accustomed to, attach ideas of sovereign power, sacredness of character, and hereditary right, is a measure of the most consummate policy and wisdom. It was by means of foreign connections that the stadtholder of Holland, whose powers at first were probably not equal to those of a president of the United States, became a sovereign hereditary prince before the late revolution in that country. Nor is it with levity that I remark, that the very title of our first magistrate, in some measure exempts us from the danger of those calamities by which European nations are almost perpetually visited. The title of king, prince, emperor, or czar, without the smallest addition to his powers, would have rendered him a member of the fraternity of crowned heads: their common cause has more than once threatened the desolation of Europe. To have added a member to this sacred family in America, would have invited and perpetuated among us all the evils of Pandora's Box.

https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a2_1_1s18.html
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,361
  • Gender: Male
Pompeo was on either Kudlow and or Levin this weekend, and he said Nikki's little Pence mini-coup is collaboratable with at least two  others.

Hate for the little wench to get caught in another lie.  /s
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,710
  • Gender: Male
  • I'll make Mincemeat out of 'em"
BS! 100% USDA Choice and the plain words of the constitution itself bear witness.

Neither the Constitution nor the long quote that you provided define what "natural born citizen" actually means, so I'm not sure how that backs up your argument.

My point is pretty basic.  There are people who were citizens at birth, and then there are people who are naturalized as citizens.  What evidence can you point me to showing that, in the period around 1789, a child could be considered a citizen at birth but not a natural born citizen?  Anything from back then that discusses those two concepts and draws a distinction between them.

Because from everything I've read, that distinction didn't exist.  Therefore, when the 14th Amendment was passed making you a citizen at birth if you were born here (and subject to the jurisdiction of), then you're a natural born citizen.  Might be dumb, but its the law nonetheless.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 09:43:37 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,397
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
And I think the crux of the matter boils down to whether or not you, not your parents, were a citizen at birth, hence the term "natural born citizen."   Now of course, there were different rules for citizenship in the 18th century than there were later, but there was no distinction drawn between being born a citizen, and being a natural born citizen even back then.
   
And yet under your standard, a child born to U.S. citizens in China, who never even visited the U.S., would be eligible to be President despite never having lived here.  Is that really any better?

Perhaps the 14th Amendment wasn't wise, but that doesn't make it any less valid.  And I think trying to argue that someone born a citizen isn't a natural born citizen ends up as pretzel logic.
First off, it isn't my standard, it is the language of the Constitution.

Maybe you need to reread the Constitution. You must have missed the part of 14 years in residence.

Quote
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

The aim of that standard, obviously, was that whoever the POTUS was, they would have no split loyalty between the US and any other country. Of course, with the political climate of the day, they didn't foresee that the POTUS would perhaps have divided loyalty to some bunch of globalist pukes over our national sovereignty.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis