Author Topic: $400M U.S. Aid Package: Biden Announces 31 Abrams Main Battle Tanks for Ukraine  (Read 2002 times)

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Sorry, but Ukraine has effectively ceded whatever "sovereignty" it had to the US -- hence the nonstop pleading with the US to give them stuff. The US exercises ultimate decision-making power, not Ukraine, whose very existence as a state is now singularly dependent on US patronage

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Mr. Green
@blackrockzig

They are defending their sovereignty. Russia escalated they war.

11:40 PM · Jan 25, 2023

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Congratulations on having this epiphany after almost a full year https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/25/tanks-ukraine-western-war-russia-volodymyr-zelenskiy



2:07 PM · Jan 25, 2023

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Michael Tracey
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Can't help but perversely appreciate whatever historical wormhole we've fallen into where German tanks rolling across Europe for the first time since 1945 is seen as a big celebratory triumph

1:52 PM · Jan 25, 2023

Offline Hoodat

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Sending tanks to Ukraine makes one thing clear: this is now a western war against Russia
Martin Kettle

What a load of crap!  This is Russia's war.  They initiated it.  They are the aggressor.  And they can end it any time they choose.
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Offline Hoodat

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Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Sorry, but Ukraine has effectively ceded whatever "sovereignty" it had to the US --

Even more crap.  Did Iraq cede their sovereignty over to the US with the presence of over 100,000 US troops on Iraqi soil?  Of course not.  Yet we are to believe that to be the case in Ukraine with zero US troops on Ukrainian soil?  Good grief, do people even make an attempt at thinking before posting such preposterous bullshit?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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US disarms itself to aid Ukraine
Washington Examiner, Jan 25, 2023, Byron York

U.S. DISARMS ITSELF TO AID UKRAINE. The United States has shipped massive amounts of military aid to Ukraine since the Russian invasion in February 2022. There has been bipartisan support on Capitol Hill for the aid, although some Republicans have questioned the price tag — $27.5 billion so far in military aid, or "security assistance" alone, which does not include tens of billions in financial, humanitarian, and other types of aid. Some GOP lawmakers have also expressed concern about the lack of safeguards in sending so much money to a notoriously corrupt country.

But there is another growing worry about the amount of U.S. military aid to Ukraine. The Biden administration is sending so many weapons to Ukraine that the U.S., already underprepared for a major war, is running low on munitions for its own defense. In effect, the U.S. is disarming itself to aid Ukraine. That would be troubling in any event but is especially so amid growing tensions with China over Taiwan.

The scope of the problem is detailed in a new report, "Empty Bins In A Wartime Environment," from the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. Author Seth Jones writes that "the U.S. defense industrial base is not adequately prepared for the competitive security environment that now exists." Citing analysis of stockpiles and usage rates, plus several CSIS war games, Jones writes that supplies are so low that "the United States would likely run out of some munitions — such as long-range, precision-guided munitions — in less than one week in a Taiwan Strait conflict."

Jones writes that the U.S. has been underprepared for years. But the war in Ukraine is making the situation worse. The American effort in Ukraine has "depleted U.S. stocks of some types of weapons systems and munitions, such as Stinger surface-to-air missiles, 155 mm howitzers and ammunition, and Javelin anti-tank missile systems," Jones writes. "For example, the quantities of Javelins transferred to Ukraine through late August 2022 represented seven years of production [at 2022 rates]. ... The number of Stingers transferred to Ukraine is roughly equal to the total number built for all non-U.S. customers in the last 20 years. ... As of January 2023, the U.S. military has provided Ukraine with up to 1,074,000 rounds of 155 mm ammunition, significantly shrinking the availability of 155 mm rounds in storage. Because of the limited availability of 155 mm howitzers and ammunition, the U.S. military began sending 105 mm howitzers and ammunition instead."

"Since many of the weapons systems and munitions have come directly from U.S. inventories," Jones concludes, "U.S. assistance has depleted some stockpiles that could be used for training, future contingencies, or other operational needs."


More: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/us-disarms-itself-to-aid-ukraine

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Empty Bins in a Wartime Environment: The Challenge to the U.S. Defense Industrial Base
CSIS, Jan 23, 2023,. Seth G. Jones

https://www.csis.org/analysis/empty-bins-wartime-environment-challenge-us-defense-industrial-base

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Tanks for nothing increase Ukraine entanglement
Las Vegas Review-Journal, Jan 25, 2023, Editorial Board

If President Joe Biden has a coherent strategy for ending the Ukraine war, now would be an opportune time to deploy it.

On Wednesday, Mr. Biden announced that the U.S. will provide Ukraine with 31 M1A1 Abrams tanks. That’s the U.S.’ main battle tank, which our country has used for four decades. In tandem with Biden’s decision, Germany and other European allies will provide tanks. Politico reported that European countries will send enough for two tank battalions.

[...]

This is a significant shift in posture. Western officials have long provided Ukraine with defensive weapons, especially as the country showed incredible resolve in resisting the invasion. But they’ve been slower to provide offensive weapons, like modern tanks.

That reserve was an appropriate display of restraint given the situation. Russia’s inability to conquer Ukraine shows it’s no longer the dominant military power it once was. That’s worth celebrating. But Russia still has nuclear weapons and is run by a de facto dictator.

Sending tanks makes this look much more like a proxy war. How would Russia respond if Ukraine used those tanks for offensive operations inside Russia? That could have major ramifications for NATO, which has a pledge of collective defense. Providing tanks increases the possibility of regional or global conflict. These decisions aren’t straightforward, and this consideration is a real trade-off.

Further complicating the situation is Ukrainian corruption. This week, nine senior Ukrainian officials lost their positions amid scandals.

One official, who previously worked in President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s office, is being investigated for embezzling millions of dollars in humanitarian aid. Not great.

What’s needed most aren’t tanks but an exit strategy. That probably will require allowing Russia to save face, even as it loses militarily. Perhaps that’s in the works, but Mr. Biden has provided precious little evidence of it so far.


https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-tanks-for-nothing-increase-ukraine-entanglement-2718614/

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Jack Posobiec
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BREAKING: President Trump slams escalation in Ukraine - calls for war to end

No other world leader is calling for this



8:06 AM · Jan 26, 2023

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Angelo Fazio
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How can so many stand for the planet, healthcare and humanity and at the same time advocate for WW3?

I get the “he started it” argument (I have a 6 year old), not grounds to fan the flames of mass destruction.

Pick one, either you want to save the world or destroy it.


9:39 AM · Jan 26, 2023

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Ukraine is a proxy war between Western Europe and Putin's USSR v2.0.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Election Wizard
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BREAKING: Putin spokesman says tanks from West constitute “direct involvement” in the Ukrainian war.

10:09 AM · Jan 26, 2023


Online christian

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Some might remember, after the anti-America, hate America, pro-terrorist democrats get their way, our enemies wil be heavily armed and us much disarmed, and then democrats wil be pro-war, expecting America weakened enough to lose such carefully prepared conflict.  Sending our enemies truck loads of money AND ARMIES TO USE AGAINST US, THIS CAN ONLY END ONE WAY.  Thank the useful fools and suckkas that brought this all on us.  They don't like our freedoms, prosperities, or Constitution either.  Notice how they worship America/American hating democrats who ally with terrorists.  Lies, liars, deniers did this to us.
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“The idea that we’re going to send in offensive equipment and have planes and tanks and trains going in with American pilots and American crews — just understand, don’t kid yourself, no matter what y’all say, that’s called World War III...”
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FLASHBACK: Biden Said Sending Tanks to Ukraine Would Start World War III
By Matt Margolis 9:48 AM on January 26, 2023

On Thursday, Germany and the United States agreed to provide advanced battle tanks to the Ukrainian military. As PJM’s Rick Moran noted, “this is a serious escalation in the war.” In fact, according to Joe Biden, it’s going to start World War III.

Last March, Biden chose not to send jets and tanks to Ukraine because doing so would be a dangerous escalation.

“The idea that we’re going to send in offensive equipment and have planes and tanks and trains going in with American pilots and American crews — just understand, don’t kid yourself, no matter what y’all say, that’s called World War III,” Biden said on March 11, 2022, while speaking at a gathering of House Democrats in Philadelphia. ...
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2023/01/26/flashback-biden-said-sending-tanks-to-ukraine-would-start-world-war-iii-n1665207
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Glenn Greenwald
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The US spends 16 times more on its military than Russia. Russia's economy is smaller than Italy and Canada's.

The US has already committed more money to the war in Ukraine than *the entire Russia military budget for the year.*

What threat does Russia pose to the US?


2:09 PM · Jan 25, 2023
This whole UKE giveaway is dim-RINO factioned distraction event to mask the pending disaster here.  Border-Inflation-Fentanyl crisis, etc 

And the sad fact that even questioning sending money to Zelnskyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy makes you a "Russian Agent" is beyond disgust.  And even a  tactic some of our resident Briefers employ
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Online christian

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Isn't comrade CZAR Joe Biden so much better than that 'evil' Trump who really was making things better.  Could a fool or damn fool tell the difference?  You saw them in action here, now judge their results.  Ignore the lies/liars excuses.

Look what you've done when you got YOUR WAY!

As many of you 'in our face' told us; Anything Biden does is better than anything Trump did or does.  Well step up now and explain it NOW!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 10:38:23 pm by christian »
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Offline bilo

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If $0.4 billion yields 31 M-1 tanks, then what did the $40 billion yield?  3100 tanks would have made a huge difference last summer.  Yet so much money and nothing to show for it.

Great point!

Also, I don't know what M-1 tanks we can send. The armor is highly classified and we don't even sell them to some of our closer allies because of it.
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Offline bilo

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Tanks for nothing increase Ukraine entanglement
Las Vegas Review-Journal, Jan 25, 2023, Editorial Board

If President Joe Biden has a coherent strategy for ending the Ukraine war, now would be an opportune time to deploy it.

On Wednesday, Mr. Biden announced that the U.S. will provide Ukraine with 31 M1A1 Abrams tanks. That’s the U.S.’ main battle tank, which our country has used for four decades. In tandem with Biden’s decision, Germany and other European allies will provide tanks. Politico reported that European countries will send enough for two tank battalions.

[...]

This is a significant shift in posture. Western officials have long provided Ukraine with defensive weapons, especially as the country showed incredible resolve in resisting the invasion. But they’ve been slower to provide offensive weapons, like modern tanks.

That reserve was an appropriate display of restraint given the situation. Russia’s inability to conquer Ukraine shows it’s no longer the dominant military power it once was. That’s worth celebrating. But Russia still has nuclear weapons and is run by a de facto dictator.

Sending tanks makes this look much more like a proxy war. How would Russia respond if Ukraine used those tanks for offensive operations inside Russia? That could have major ramifications for NATO, which has a pledge of collective defense. Providing tanks increases the possibility of regional or global conflict. These decisions aren’t straightforward, and this consideration is a real trade-off.

Further complicating the situation is Ukrainian corruption. This week, nine senior Ukrainian officials lost their positions amid scandals.

One official, who previously worked in President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s office, is being investigated for embezzling millions of dollars in humanitarian aid. Not great.

What’s needed most aren’t tanks but an exit strategy. That probably will require allowing Russia to save face, even as it loses militarily. Perhaps that’s in the works, but Mr. Biden has provided precious little evidence of it so far.


https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-tanks-for-nothing-increase-ukraine-entanglement-2718614/

Here is something we can agree on. The corruption in Ukraine is an issue and it is only now being dealt with. I can't help but wonder why now?

I'm all in for supporting Ukraine with weaponry and I want to know it's being put to good use killing the invaders, but cash either directly or through NGO's is questionable at best.
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Offline bilo

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Ukraine is a proxy war between Western Europe and Putin's USSR v2.0.

Then we don't have a lot to worry about. The Ukrainians have pushed back the Russians without our best weapons. Once Russia leaves sovereign Ukrainian territory the war will end.
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Offline bilo

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This whole UKE giveaway is dim-RINO factioned distraction event to mask the pending disaster here.  Border-Inflation-Fentanyl crisis, etc 

And the sad fact that even questioning sending money to Zelnskyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy makes you a "Russian Agent" is beyond disgust.  And even a  tactic some of our resident Briefers employ

Or pointing out there is corruption going on and only recently have they started doing anything about it.
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Offline Hoodat

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Once Russia leaves sovereign Ukrainian territory the war will end.

Yep.  That's the gist of it.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online DB

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If $0.4 billion yields 31 M-1 tanks, then what did the $40 billion yield?  3100 tanks would have made a huge difference last summer.  Yet so much money and nothing to show for it.

That "$400 million" is probably an accounting number. Not a real value number. It could be a small fraction of that.