Author Topic: Here’s what you need to know about the GOP bill to abolish the tax code  (Read 555 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 358,702
  • Gender: Female
  • Let's Go Brandon!
Here’s what you need to know about the GOP bill to abolish the tax code
by Tobias Burns - 01/24/23 6:00 AM ET


House conservatives are breathing new life into an old proposal to do away with income taxes, payroll taxes, estate taxes and even the IRS itself in favor of a supersized sales tax that would account for nearly all government revenues.

Versions of the far-reaching plan have been around for decades, and with Democrats controlling both the White House and Senate, the proposal has little chance of making it into law. But frustration over the $80 billion funding boost for the IRS passed by Democrats last year has Republicans wanting to make bold statements about changing the tax code — including scrapping it altogether.

The Fair Tax Act introduced by Rep. Buddy Carter (R-Ga.) and supported by 30 other Republicans would institute a massive 30 percent sales tax on all purchases in exchange for doing away with income, Social Security and Medicare taxes. 

That means workers would get to keep the entirety of their paychecks without having to pay out anything to the government. But it also means that buying everything from groceries to automobiles would be hugely more expensive.

more
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/3821761-heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-gop-bill-to-abolish-the-tax-code/
Don't forget 10% for the "Big Guy"
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is a disgrace, that two become a lawfirm & that three or more become a congress." -John Adams

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”

-Matthew 6:34

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,139
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 03:36:51 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,810
:mauslaff:

Quote
The advantage to higher earners is so pronounced that the legislation includes a “prebate,” a cash transfer program in which taxpayers get regular checks equal to the amount that people at the poverty level would owe in taxes.

So what is the difference between that prebate and the universal basic income that so many so-called conservatives love to hate?
Correlation does not imply causation

Offline bilo

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,947
That means workers would get to keep the entirety of their paychecks without having to pay out anything to the government. But it also means that buying everything from groceries to automobiles would be hugely more expensive.

A consumption tax would be the best way to reduce govt control over our lives. It would need to be anchored to a constitutional amendment ending any tax on income. If this were to happen savings would dramatically increase and cost of items being purchased would reflect the savings the businesses saw in producing the products being sold.
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Offline DefiantMassRINO

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,329
  • Gender: Male
Yea, I'd get to keep the entirety of my paycheck, so long as I didn't have to buy or barter for anything.

30% is steep.
Opening a new tax revenue stream to the Fed Gov't is not a good idea.

Cut Government spending and lower the effective payroll tax rate (income+fica+medicare) to equal the corporate tax rate or the capital gains tax rate.
Pronoun: Chowderhead
Ethnicity: Deplorable

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,139
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
That means workers would get to keep the entirety of their paychecks without having to pay out anything to the government. But it also means that buying everything from groceries to automobiles would be hugely more expensive.

A consumption tax would be the best way to reduce govt control over our lives. It would need to be anchored to a constitutional amendment ending any tax on income. If this were to happen savings would dramatically increase and cost of items being purchased would reflect the savings the businesses saw in producing the products being sold.

Ever wonder what would happen to our economy if anyone could start or expand a business without having to spend even one second considering the tax implications of the move?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,139
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Yea, I'd get to keep the entirety of my paycheck, so long as I didn't have to buy or barter for anything.

30% is steep.
Opening a new tax revenue stream to the Fed Gov't is not a good idea.

Cut Government spending and lower the effective payroll tax rate (income+fica+medicare) to equal the corporate tax rate or the capital gains tax rate.

Hear here!

The FairTax would not increase revenue, but current law (PAGO) requires tax legislation to match current revenue.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,810
Ever wonder what would happen to our economy if anyone could start or expand a business without having to spend even one second considering the tax implications of the move?

You mean the typical business startup doesn't consider state tax issues, like state sales taxes, gross receipts taxes, and etc?
Correlation does not imply causation

Offline DefiantMassRINO

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,329
  • Gender: Male
I could hire more people, but, if my business was to purchase input to sell a value added product, I'd be at a disadvantage to foreign competitors.

I'd have to pay 30% tax on each of my input goods and services whereas a foreign competitor would only have to charge 30% for a finished product.

If I managed supply chains, it would be more cost advantageous to me to purchase from overseas than manufacture in the US.  I'd build my baby formula factory in Ireland.  I'd build my pharmaceutical plant in India.  I'd build my microchip fabrication factory in Taiwan.  I'd build my auto manufacturing plant in Mexico.

Meanwhile, hedge fund managers still pay 0% on Carried Interest.
Pronoun: Chowderhead
Ethnicity: Deplorable

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,810
I could hire more people, but, if my business was to purchase input to sell a value added product, I'd be at a disadvantage to foreign competitors.

I'd have to pay 30% tax on each of my input goods and services whereas a foreign competitor would only have to charge 30% for a finished product.

If I managed supply chains, it would be more cost advantageous to me to purchase from overseas than manufacture in the US.  I'd build my baby formula factory in Ireland.  I'd build my pharmaceutical plant in India.  I'd build my microchip fabrication factory in Taiwan.  I'd build my auto manufacturing plant in Mexico.

Meanwhile, hedge fund managers still pay 0% on Carried Interest.

If it were to operate like a standard state sales and use tax, then you may, or may not, be paying sales tax on your inputs.  Many state sales tax systems use the so-called resale exemption system to minimize pyramiding on inputs.  It's not perfect, and it takes a fair amount of time to do compliance if, like most state sales tax systems, there is a complex system of things that are taxable and things that are not, for one reason or another, but it is intended to reduce the amount of pyramiding.
Correlation does not imply causation

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,139
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
I could hire more people, but, if my business was to purchase input to sell a value added product, I'd be at a disadvantage to foreign competitors.

Which is exactly where you are today due to the corporate income tax and ALL the costs of compliance associated with it even if you have no actual tax liability.

Quote
I'd have to pay 30% tax on each of my input goods and services whereas a foreign competitor would only have to charge 30% for a finished product.


Not under the Fairtax! It's only collected on NEW goods and services at the RETAIL level. What you mentioned is exactly what happens with anything produced in this country under the current Marxist INCOME tax scheme.




Comparing Average and Marginal Tax Rates
under the
FairTax and the Current System of Federal Taxation


The FairTax and the federal income tax:
A comparative analysis
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 04:15:04 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 31,525
  • Gender: Male
  • Dumbest member of the forum
Ain't it fun to make proposals like this, when you know the chances of them ever becoming reality are less than zero?

Why, one could do it all day...!

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,810
It would be useful if those people trying to foist a national retail sales tax on the country actually had some real experience in the trenches dealing with actual sales tax issues.

It's not nearly as simple, efficient, or inexpensive as they make it out to be.  And it certainly won't result in the complete closure of the Internal Revenue Service.
Correlation does not imply causation

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,139
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
It would be useful if those people trying to foist a national retail sales tax on the country actually had some real experience in the trenches dealing with actual sales tax issues.

There are millions with lots of experience in the trenches dealing with the Marxist income tax.

Quote
It's not nearly as simple, efficient, or inexpensive as they make it out to be.  And it certainly won't result in the complete closure of the Internal Revenue Service.

45 of 50 states currently have a sales tax and I'm not aware of anything like the problems we find with the Marxist income tax.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline massadvj

  • Editorial Advisor
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,922
  • Gender: Male
I tend to prefer this idea to the flat income tax, but they need to somehow strike the 16th amendment, or we will eventually end up with BOTH a national sales tax and an income tax.  However, either the Fair Tax or the Flat Income Tax would be superior to what we have now.

Since nearly a quarter of federal spending comes from monetizing the debt, The most important thing is to rein in spending.


Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,139
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
I tend to prefer this idea to the flat income tax, but they need to somehow strike the 16th amendment, or we will eventually end up with BOTH a national sales tax and an income tax.  However, either the Fair Tax or the Flat Income Tax would be superior to what we have now.

Since nearly a quarter of federal spending comes from monetizing the debt, The most important thing is to rein in spending.

I hate to be the one to tell you this @massadvj but that is exactly what you have right now.

I agree with you on the spending but getting control of that is near impossible when more than half the country perceive that they don't pay taxes.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 12:41:21 am by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,810
There are millions with lots of experience in the trenches dealing with the Marxist income tax.

45 of 50 states currently have a sales tax and I'm not aware of anything like the problems we find with the Marxist income tax.

Then you have little or no real experience with sales tax, other than paying it when it shows up on the cash register.
Correlation does not imply causation

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,139
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Then you have little or no real experience with sales tax, other than paying it when it shows up on the cash register.

You have no clue as to what I do or don't have experience with @Kamaji but I will freely admit that my line of work does not depend on the existence of any particular tax system.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline bilo

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,947
Ever wonder what would happen to our economy if anyone could start or expand a business without having to spend even one second considering the tax implications of the move?

The opportunities would be boundless. The only questions the business person would have to figure out would be where to get the additional people and whether the business could grab a greater market share.
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Offline bilo

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,947
You mean the typical business startup doesn't consider state tax issues, like state sales taxes, gross receipts taxes, and etc?

Among the worst things a business has to deal with are depreciation schedules. 
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Offline corbe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,620
   To think our Govt, 60 years after the fact, still protects the Tax returns of Ruth Payne, the lady that got Lee Oswald the job at the Texas School Depository and he left her house that faithful morning, yet demands and releases Trump's returns is just unreal to me.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline massadvj

  • Editorial Advisor
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,922
  • Gender: Male
I hate to be the one to tell you this @massadvj but that is exactly what you have right now.

I agree with you on the spending but getting control of that is near impossible when more than half the country perceive that they don't pay taxes.


@Bigun

I assume you mean inflation is a tax. As usual, you are absolutely right.

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,810
Among the worst things a business has to deal with are depreciation schedules. 

Not really.
Correlation does not imply causation

Online Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,810
You have no clue as to what I do or don't have experience with @Kamaji but I will freely admit that my line of work does not depend on the existence of any particular tax system.

I don’t have direct knowledge - of course - but I can infer a lot from the things you post, and as your response indicates, my inference in this regard was spot on. 
Correlation does not imply causation

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,070
@Bigun

I assume you mean inflation is a tax. As usual, you are absolutely right.

But wait! There's more! More than half of the country either does not pay income tax, or have their taxes offset (or more) via social programs (welfare, child tax credits, etc).

Since they have no direct filings, they might have the impression that the federal government costs them nothing, or offers them a direct gain... Meanwhile a myriad of federal taxes are paid by them along with everyone else in a plethora of 'hidden' taxes -

Fuel taxes being a prime example, that is taxed exponentially across the whole energy landscape, and not just at the retail pump... Fuel is taxed in the machinery digging the fuel out of the ground, in the trucks that ship it to the refinery, in the trucks that ship it from the refinery into general distribution, which covers who knows how many more transportation episodes. An easy third of every gallon in the production system is uncle's rake, not including the direct tax at the retail end. How many more instances exist similar to the tax on fuel?

That on top of the inflation point already well made.

@massadvj @Bigun
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 11:02:43 am by roamer_1 »