Author Topic: 'Going to Be a Knife Fight': Yellen Warns House GOP Against Blocking Debt Increase, Comer Fires Bac  (Read 2316 times)

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Offline catfish1957

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Can you imagine if Kudlow had said this?

The FBI would have raided his house and seized all his knives.   :cool:
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Online Right_in_Virginia

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The GOP has been trying these shutdowns as a way to bring pressure on the Democrats.  And we pretty much always lose in the end.  Why?  Because not every member of the GOP caucus is willing to accept public responsibility for shutting down the government and having the geezers not get their checks, etc.., for issues that aren't their priority.  And we've got one of the narrowest majorities in history, so that just makes it that much harder.

Those 22 House members should have held out for a Republican war room with an emphasis on messaging --- both for external consumption and caucas unity.

Having a uniform answer to why a shutdown, what it means, what it will take to avoid it and the short and long term benefits would go a long way in giving a spinal infusion to those members needing one --- regardless of why it's needed.

For instance, neither Social Security nor SSI checks stop during a shutdown... something even Republicans get wrong.

We also need an effective Whip.

It's doable --- if we get smart and prepare for a fight worth winning.

Online Hoodat

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This is such a simple matter.  Don't complicate it.  Extend the debt ceiling for three months in exchange for eliminating the 87,000 IRS agents.  In April, extend the debt ceiling for another 3 months in exchange for diverting $10 billion of USAID funding towards wall construction.  And if Senate Democrats resist, they will be the ones responsible for shutting down the government.

This is a win-win-win for Republicans.  Don't screw this up.
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Those 22 House members should have held out for a Republican war room with an emphasis on messaging --- both for external consumption and caucas unity.

Having a uniform answer to why a shutdown, what it means, what it will take to avoid it and the short and long term benefits would go a long way in giving a spinal infusion to those members needing one --- regardless of why it's needed.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean with that.  There is, and was, no way to force every member of the caucus to support every shutdown.  And any shutdown that does start getting discussed is going to be very fact-specific, so it'll have to be discussed/negotiated when and if specific terms for the shutdown are raised.

The concept of "caucus unity" evaporated day one anyway, when the individual members of the Freedom Caucus used their power to stop the majority of the caucus from electing the Speaker..  The more moderate members of the caucus likely already feel they've made every concession they're willing to make.   And the Speaker being in a "straightjacket" means he's not going to have the leverage to make them do otherwise.

That's the flip side of "empowering every member".   

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For instance, neither Social Security nor SSI checks stop during a shutdown... something even Republicans get wrong.

They don't stop during a failure to approve budgets or appropriations. But they will eventually stop if the debt ceiling isn't raised.




Online Maj. Bill Martin

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It's time to primary Republicans who fail to live up to expectations.

A lot of those more moderate Republicans are in districts where hardcore conservative primary challenges present no realistic threat.


Offline Wingnut

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They don't stop during a failure to approve budgets or appropriations. But they will eventually stop if the debt ceiling isn't raised.

I can't remember that ever happening the last umpteen times congress has stalled on raising the ceiling. ??
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Online Hoodat

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They don't stop during a failure to approve budgets or appropriations. But they will eventually stop if the debt ceiling isn't raised.

They will stop ONLY if the Executive branch chooses to spend the money coming into the Treasury each day on things other than Social Security checks.  By their BS shutdown rhetoric, it is clear that government payroll checks for government bureaucrats are a higher priority than SS checks for retirees.

Again, failing to increase the debt ceiling means that government will have to run off its current cash stream, just like every family in America.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Online Right_in_Virginia

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I'm not exactly sure what you mean with that.  There is, and was, no way to force every member of the caucus to support every shutdown.  And any shutdown that does start getting discussed is going to be very fact-specific, so it'll have to be discussed/negotiated when and if specific terms for the shutdown are raised.

I never said "force" or "every shutdown".  Certainly there should be debate within the Caucus --- and this should occur before a floor debate or public announcement.  We need to find out just what is driving opposition.   It may all come down to messaging that is palpable to certain groups of constituents. Here's an opportunity for Republicans to get smart and on the same page.

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The concept of "caucus unity" evaporated day one anyway, when the individual members of the Freedom Caucus used their power to stop the majority of the caucus from electing the Speaker..

But they didn't stop the majority from electing McCarthy.  Now they all sink or swim together.

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The more moderate members of the caucus likely already feel they've made every concession they're willing to make.   And the Speaker being in a "straightjacket" means he's not going to have the leverage to make them do otherwise.

That "straightjacket" has the potential to turn McCarthy into one of the most consequential and effective Speakers in Republican history.  McCarthy is coming to this understanding.  Hit the political opposition in the House and both sides of the aisle in the Senate with a few early wins and that "straightjacket" will be the best thing to happen to House Republicans in a generation.

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A lot of those more moderate Republicans are in districts where hardcore conservative primary challenges present no realistic threat.

Messaging counts; so do results.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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I can't remember that ever happening the last umpteen times congress has stalled on raising the ceiling. ??

What generally happens is that as they get really close to the debt ceiling, they prioritize certain things and just stop paying for others.  But at some point, if you actually hit the limit (which we haven't because someone always caves) even that will stop.  At least, full payments would stop.  Whatever portion of payments could be funded by addition funds coming in could still be paid as long as it didn't run negative.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2023, 07:46:42 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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I never said "force" or "every shutdown".  Certainly there should be debate within the Caucus --- and this should occur before a floor debate or public announcement.  We need to find out just what is driving opposition.   It may all come down to messaging that is palpable to certain groups of constituents. Here's an opportunity for Republicans to get smart and on the same page.

Okay, I agree with that.  My point is that the FC doesn't hold the leverage here -- the moderates do.  Because they are the ones who always have the option to just break and vote for a clean increase in the debt ceiling with Democrats.  So the question is -- how do you convince them to stay with the rest of the caucus?

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But they didn't stop the majority from electing McCarthy.  Now they all sink or swim together.

How so?  It's entirely possible the moderates could decide to swim, and let the rest of the caucus sink, if they think the demands are too extreme.

Quote
That "straightjacket" has the potential to turn McCarthy into one of the most consequential and effective Speakers in Republican history.  McCarthy is coming to this understanding.  Hit the political opposition in the House and both sides of the aisle in the Senate with a few early wins and that "straightjacket" will be the best thing to happen to House Republicans in a generation.

I don't get that at all.  The entire point was to give McCarthy much less power than most Speakers, and to give that power to individual members.  He lacks a lot of the tools Speakers normally have to keep other reps in line.  I don't see how having much less power makes you more consequential and effective.  The success or failure of this particular GOP Caucus is much less on McCarthy, and much more on individual members.  And that's by design.

Online Right_in_Virginia

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Don't tell anyone, but McCarthy's not in a straightjacket.  🤫

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Stephen Miller
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Our country is not being bankrupted by middle class fixed-income seniors. It’s being bankrupted by mass unskilled unending global migration. Want an idea for the debt ceiling? End all benefits for illegals, all welfare for noncitizens, all paths to citizenship for public charges.

10:21 AM · Jan 16, 2023

Online Bigun

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Stephen Miller
@StephenM

Our country is not being bankrupted by middle class fixed-income seniors. It’s being bankrupted by mass unskilled unending global migration. Want an idea for the debt ceiling? End all benefits for illegals, all welfare for noncitizens, all paths to citizenship for public charges.

10:21 AM · Jan 16, 2023

Welcome aboard Mr. Miller! I've been saying this for a LONG time. 

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« Last Edit: January 17, 2023, 09:57:36 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline berdie

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Welcome aboard Mr. Miller! I've been saying this for a LONG time. 

Singapore has it right! You cannot rent an apartment there unless you can prove you are there legally.




Totally agree. But..seems like there was a mayor several years ago in Carrollton that tried to do just that. He was shot down in a heart beat. First name was Tim but I can't remember his last name, until I hit the enter button, lol. I think I saw he had won some political race during the midterms.

Online Bigun

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Totally agree. But..seems like there was a mayor several years ago in Carrollton that tried to do just that. He was shot down in a heart beat. First name was Tim but I can't remember his last name, until I hit the enter button, lol. I think I saw he had won some political race during the midterms.

 :yowsa:  I recall that as well and it tells us that the PTB really don't want to solve the problem. Doing that would get rid of too many government jobs.  Instead they want to exacerbate it.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Want an idea for the debt ceiling? End all benefits for illegals, all welfare for noncitizens, all paths to citizenship for public charges.

10:21 AM · Jan 16, 2023

Nice goals, but exactly how does that get accomplished with a Democratic Senate and a Democratic President?

Online Hoodat

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Nice goals, but exactly how does that get accomplished with a Democratic Senate and a Democratic President?

Easy.  Stop funding benefits for illegals and all welfare for noncitizens.  Congress has to take action to fund these.  Simply choose not to take that action.  And if the Democrats want to shut down the government over this, let them.  Either way, these two things don't get funded.  Republicans need to stop doing the Democrats' bidding for them.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Online Cyber Liberty

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The GOP majority won't hold on refusing to increase the debt limit unless the demands are ones the most liberal members of the GOP caucus are willing to back.  That's just a fact.

So, that means a lot of negotiation within the caucus to feel out where a reasonable line can be drawn and actually held.  Otherwise, it'll be a threat that just false apart within a few days, and the only thing the GOP will have gained is the humiliation of having held out for a few days, crumbled, and gotten absolutely nothing.

It took a few months for Gingrich to cave to Clinton on spending.    888mouth
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Easy.  Stop funding benefits for illegals and all welfare for noncitizens.  Congress has to take action to fund these.  Simply choose not to take that action.  And if the Democrats want to shut down the government over this, let them.  Either way, these two things don't get funded.  Republicans need to stop doing the Democrats' bidding for them.

Well, the funding is already voted in for this year, so that would have to be for the next fiscal year.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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It took a few months for Gingrich to cave to Clinton on spending.    888mouth

And yet...he still caved.

If you're going to do the debt ceiling game of chicken, you have to pick an issue that is popular with the majority of voters, else the RINO's will bail.  And with this small a margin, it'll happen fast.  Pick an issue that the Democrats won't want to defend or even talk about publicly, and that's where you draw the line.

If you draw the line on a clearly "conservative" issue, you'll have defections, cave, and look like bozos.


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And yet...he still caved.

If you're going to do the debt ceiling game of chicken, you have to pick an issue that is popular with the majority of voters, else the RINO's will bail.  And with this small a margin, it'll happen fast.  Pick an issue that the Democrats won't want to defend or even talk about publicly, and that's where you draw the line.

If you draw the line on a clearly "conservative" issue, you'll have defections, cave, and look like bozos.

Probably true, dat.
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Offline sneakypete

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'Going to Be a Knife Fight': then bring guns.

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