Author Topic: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread  (Read 44382 times)

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #125 on: January 05, 2023, 03:54:53 pm »
The one thing I would look for here from McCarthy is a degree of humility.  His arrogance is what digs his grave.  Personally, I like the guy.  I just don't trust him.  But here is what he could do to fix the situation.

One argument is that McCarthy is the only choice here in that no one else wants to be Speaker.  That is a fair argument.  But in order to find out if it is valid, McCarthy should caucus with all the Republican members to (temporarily) withdraw his name from consideration and hold a new vote.  If some other member wins a sizeable majority of that vote, then McCarthy should encourage everyone to vote for that member on the House floor.  But if the GOP members can't decide on an alternative candidate, then they should all back McCarthy.

This would give the opposition a fair opportunity to choose someone else.  And it would exhibit an act of humility from McCarthy on his willingness to subjugate himself to his caucus.  It would be a risk for him.  But it would show that he cares more about the nation as a whole rather than his own ego.
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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #126 on: January 05, 2023, 03:57:00 pm »
Prominent Conservatives Sign Letter Supporting Anti-McCarthy Republicans

Quote
    Numerous prominent conservatives signed a letter encouraging GOP representatives to join their 20 fellow members of Congress in opposing Rep. Kevin McCarthy of California’s bid for speaker of the House.

    The signees included Edwin Meese III, former attorney general for Ronald Reagan, Ginni Thomas, president of Liberty Consulting and wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and Jim DeMint, chairman of the Conservative Partnership Institute and former U.S. senator.

    “By failing to deliver any meaningful victories or pushback against the progressive, anti-American movement, the Republican Party has become the party of losing,” American Principles Project President Terry Schilling, who also signed the letter, told the Daily Caller News Foundation. 

Dozens of prominent conservatives, including a former attorney general for the Reagan administration, released a letter Wednesday in support of the 20 House Republicans standing between Rep. Kevin McCarthy and his bid for the speakership.

“Months ago, these members made clear that this established way of doing things was no longer acceptable,” the Conservative Action Project letter said. “Rather than engage them in a good faith negotiation, Rep. Kevin McCarthy has instead maligned both the requests and the messengers. He has publicly and through proxies leveled attacks against members of his own party, including threatening to deny committee assignments for those who continue to oppose him.”

more
https://www.conservativereview.com/prominent-conservatives-sign-letter-supporting-anti-mccarthy-republicans-2659068688.html
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #127 on: January 05, 2023, 03:58:19 pm »
You act like royalty when you tell people to make you boss because you said so, and offer nothing, or crumbs.

First, it's not "because he said so."  It's because the overwhelming majority of the party to which those representatives chose to belong voted for him.

Second, they've offered a lot more than crumbs. The problem is you have people who think that they should be able to extract whatever they demand because they can sabotage the speaker election otherwise.  Of course, because any other group of 5+ also has the power to sabotage the speaker election, they might not be so keen on seeing this particular group given preferential treatment to the detriment of the rest of the caucus.

How would you like it if you were one of those other 200 votes, and you saw a disproportionate share of powerful committee assignments going to a small group, plus caving in on all the rules demands you don't support?


Offline catfish1957

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #128 on: January 05, 2023, 03:58:31 pm »
YEP. No surprise that you and I are in grand agreement.  :beer:

I'd like to throw out a wild ass scenario, just for S & G's for "what if's"

Which scenario results in the longest term damage to the conservative effort?

(1) Vacate the Seat, let a dim take, let them be blamed for results

or:

(2) McCarthy becomes Speaker, pretty much comes up with the same agenda via capitualtion, and the GOP/Conservatives gets blamed.

Not advocating for either...   just asking.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #129 on: January 05, 2023, 04:00:00 pm »
Acknowlededged.  And the fact she won her last election by dozens, and is one of POTUS Trump's biggest supporters. I'd say politically she is a Dead Chick Walking.

Especially after this, maybe her. most watched interview ever.

Dan Crenshaw (POS-TX) is pushing this lie about McCarthy bailing out Boebert in a +7% GOP district.  First, Boebert's district was redrawn by Democrats, giving them the edge.  And McCarthy's PAC did not spend a dime to support her.  So Boebert won her seat all on her own.  That lady has a hell of a lot of courage, and she is fighting for us, unlike Crenshaw who is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the RNC.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #130 on: January 05, 2023, 04:01:04 pm »
I'd like to throw out a wild ass scenario, just for S & G's for "what if's"

Which scenario results in the longest term damage to the conservative effort?

(1) Vacate the Seat, let a dim take, let them be blamed for results

or:

(2) McCarthy becomes Speaker, pretty much comes up with the same agenda via capitualtion, and the GOP/Conservatives gets blamed.

Not advocating for either...   just asking.

Six one way.  A half dozen the other.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #131 on: January 05, 2023, 04:01:19 pm »
The creamy RINO center of the Republican Party IS soft - Step-and-fetch-it for whichever way the wind is blowing. They stand upon sand and are worried only for their position and being in the shadow of power. Were the Conservatives to ascend, you can bet money the lion's share of the middle would immediately go hard right.

If you have 200 members of the Republican Caucus voting one way, and 20 voting the other, it's the 20 who seem closer to the definition of a "RINO".

Offline Hoodat

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #132 on: January 05, 2023, 04:03:19 pm »
How would you like it if you were one of those other 200 votes, and you saw a disproportionate share of powerful committee assignments going to a small group, plus caving in on all the rules demands you don't support?

How will you like it when the 200 get all the committee assignments while the 20 are completely shut out of everything?  Maybe McCarthy should try honey instead of vinegar.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline catfish1957

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #133 on: January 05, 2023, 04:05:14 pm »
If you have 200 members of the Republican Caucus voting one way, and 20 voting the other, it's the 20 who seem closer to the definition of a "RINO".

The 200 are more aligned with capitualting to the democratic agenda via McCarthy, and you are calling the 20 RINO's?

Sometimes even TBR is Bizzaro-world.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #134 on: January 05, 2023, 04:05:33 pm »
No, because it gets you past this impasse.

An impasse to everything that has been destroying America for the last 75 years.  Been the best two days of Congressional action in my lifetime.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #135 on: January 05, 2023, 04:05:56 pm »
I'd like to throw out a wild ass scenario, just for S & G's for "what if's"

Which scenario results in the longest term damage to the conservative effort?

(1) Vacate the Seat, let a dim take, let them be blamed for results

or:

(2) McCarthy becomes Speaker, pretty much comes up with the same agenda via capitualtion, and the GOP/Conservatives gets blamed.

Not advocating for either...   just asking.

I don't believe that is true, but the irony in all of this is that the rules changes demanded by the dissenters to give more power to the minority will most help the largest minority in the House, which are the Democrats.  If you put a straightjacket on the Speaker, you're going to see a more powerful Democratic minority trying to co-opt the 4-5 most liberal members of the GOP Caucus on a range of stuff, and the Speaker won't have the ability to shut it down.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #136 on: January 05, 2023, 04:06:34 pm »
If you have 200 members of the Republican Caucus voting one way, and 20 voting the other, it's the 20 who seem closer to the definition of a "RINO".

Seems to me they're standing up for a specific goal to lock down the rules and not let McCarthy get away with just platitudes.

If McCarthy can't stand for that, why should anyone vote for him?

And let's not forget, McCarthy is on record saying that if he has at least four other votes with him, he's gonna keep running till he wins.

How many votes before he backs down?
The Republic is lost.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #137 on: January 05, 2023, 04:07:11 pm »
How will you like it when the 200 get all the committee assignments while the 20 are completely shut out of everything?  Maybe McCarthy should try honey instead of vinegar.

I think McCarthy fears a major photo-op of vacating the Speakers office in shame. He can't back down.

That's what happens when you take the "entitlement" thing to extremes.

I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #138 on: January 05, 2023, 04:08:36 pm »
I'd like to throw out a wild ass scenario, just for S & G's for "what if's"

Which scenario results in the longest term damage to the conservative effort?

(1) Vacate the Seat, let a dim take, let them be blamed for results

or:

(2) McCarthy becomes Speaker, pretty much comes up with the same agenda via capitualtion, and the GOP/Conservatives gets blamed.

Not advocating for either...   just asking.

Six of one, half-dozen of the other. Nothing will really change without Freedom Caucus gaining a whole lot of weight. With more membership, they could start to throw their weight around.

But, the party goes out of its way to sabotage anyone even remotely conservative any time they can... So moving that meter is a tough nut.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #139 on: January 05, 2023, 04:09:02 pm »
Seems to me they're standing up for a specific goal to lock down the rules and not let McCarthy get away with just platitudes.

If McCarthy can't stand for that, why should anyone vote for him?

And let's not forget, McCarthy is on record saying that if he has at least four other votes with him, he's gonna keep running till he wins.

How many votes before he backs down?

Needs repeating and in. a bigger font, in case anyone doesn't thinks that McCarthy is only in it for McCarthy!!!!!!
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #140 on: January 05, 2023, 04:09:48 pm »
Gaetz talked with anchor Trace Gallagher on “Fox News at Night” where he said that the only way that the resistance ends is with McCarthy either stepping aside or accepting the holdouts’ proposals.

And there it is.  McCarthy can end this right now by accepting Conservative proposals.  His refusal to do so speaks volumes.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline roamer_1

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #141 on: January 05, 2023, 04:10:48 pm »
Six one way.  A half dozen the other.

HA! GMTA.  :beer: :cool:

Offline Hoodat

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #142 on: January 05, 2023, 04:10:55 pm »
I think McCarthy fears a major photo-op of vacating the Speakers office in shame. He can't back down.

Except when it comes to Pelosi.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #143 on: January 05, 2023, 04:11:33 pm »
An impasse to everything that has been destroying America for the last 75 years.  Been the best two days of Congressional action in my lifetime.

Here's the thing....

Given a Democratic Senate and Democratic President, a GOP House wasn't going to be able to enact any conservative legislation anyway.  We were pretty much going to have an impasse for the next two years no matter what.

But the impasse on the Speakership does accomplish two things:

1) Hand the Democrats an easy claim for 2024 that the GOP can't even govern itself, and therefore can't be trusted to govern the country, and

2) Create very hard feelings between that group of 20 and the rest of the Republican caucus that likely will result in a lot of bruising primary fights in 2024 when the rest of the caucus decides to find candidates to oppose the rebels.  And whatever agreement they may come to with the CLF not funding open seat races, there will be a bunch of other money out there looking to go after those people in 2024. 

Offline roamer_1

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #144 on: January 05, 2023, 04:12:58 pm »
If you have 200 members of the Republican Caucus voting one way, and 20 voting the other, it's the 20 who seem closer to the definition of a "RINO".

AGREED. Which is why I am a Republican no more. They give lip service to conservative principles when they need to be elected - but that's the only time... Other than a hardy few --- These among them.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #145 on: January 05, 2023, 04:14:41 pm »
An impasse to everything that has been destroying America for the last 75 years.  Been the best two days of Congressional action in my lifetime.

Close. Doesn't beat the '94, but other than that...

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #146 on: January 05, 2023, 04:15:23 pm »
Needs repeating and in. a bigger font, in case anyone doesn't thinks that McCarthy is only in it for McCarthy!!!!!!

I don't even like McCarthy and I'd support him in that.  I just absolutely detest the idea of this 20 trying to dictate to the other 200 members of the caucus.  If the argument is "well, if you can't get to 218 then you really aren't a leader", then that argument applies equally to whomever runs against McCarthy, and can be used by any small faction -- including McCarthy and his 4 supporters -- that doesn't get exactly what they want.  I'd support McCarthy just in principle.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #147 on: January 05, 2023, 04:16:06 pm »
I don't believe that is true, but the irony in all of this is that the rules changes demanded by the dissenters to give more power to the minority will most help the largest minority in the House, which are the Democrats.  If you put a straightjacket on the Speaker, you're going to see a more powerful Democratic minority trying to co-opt the 4-5 most liberal members of the GOP Caucus on a range of stuff, and the Speaker won't have the ability to shut it down.

Offset by the ability to amend... and the return of the poison pill...

Offline Hoodat

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #148 on: January 05, 2023, 04:16:19 pm »
Here’s what those concessions look like.

Quote
        A one-member “motion to vacate”: The GOP leader appears to have finally acquiesced to a demand to lower the threshold needed to force a vote ousting a speaker to just one member. While McCarthy originally indicated that restoring the one-member “motion to vacate” was a red line, his allies now argue that there’s not a huge practical difference between this and his previous offer of requiring five members to trigger the vote.
        Rules Committee seats for the Freedom Caucus: McCarthy is prepared to give the House Freedom Caucus two seats on the powerful House Rules Committee, which oversees the amendment process for the floor. (Some conservatives are still holding out for four seats on the panel.) There are also talks about giving a third seat to a conservative close to the Freedom Caucus but not in it — someone like Reps. THOMAS MASSIE (R-Ky.). Who will pick those members? We’re told there is ongoing haggling. Typically, it’s the speaker’s prerogative, but conservatives want to choose their own members for these jobs.
        A vote on term limits: This is a key demand of Rep. RALPH NORMAN (R-S.C.), who has proposed a constitutional amendment limiting lawmakers to three terms in the House.
        Major changes to the appropriations process: Fears of another trillion-plus-dollar omnibus spending bill have been a major driver of the conservative backlash to McCarthy. The brewing deal includes a promise for standalone votes on each of the 12 yearly appropriations bills, which would be considered under what is known as an “open rule,” allowing floor amendments to be offered by any lawmaker. Conservatives also won a concession to carve out any earmarks included in those packages for separate votes, though it’s unclear if they’d be voted on as one package or separately.

If McCarthy can't agree with these, then he should have the integrity to resign and become a Democrat.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline catfish1957

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Re: House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread
« Reply #149 on: January 05, 2023, 04:16:59 pm »
Close. Doesn't beat the '94, but other than that...

And '94 ended up being  eyewash.  Newt folded to Clinton like a cheap tent when the chips were down
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.