Author Topic: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000  (Read 14501 times)

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Offline rangerrebew

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Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« on: December 14, 2022, 12:22:13 pm »
Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
2 days ago Anthony Watts 54 Comments
Snow as far south as Louisiana and Houston Texas.

Legendary forecaster Joe Bastardi writes on Twitter: (and provides graphics to back it up)

Coldest Christmas with most widespread snow over since 2000 IMO.

GEFS Christmas temp anomalies vs 2000, and ensemble snow before that.

Impressive for an ensemble that far out.

This is what the most reliable forecast model (ECMWF) shows for surface temperature on Christmas Day:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/12/12/christmas-day-forecast-snowiest-and-coldest-since-2000/
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2022, 01:58:01 pm »
From Bastardi's data, and extrapolating GFS model runs....

Those of us + or - 50 miles of the I-10 corridor from Houston to NOLA will see highs in 30's lows in the low 20's, with 1-2" of snow Christmas. 

Don't get your hopes up too much, like hurricane runs, much can change in the next 10 days. In any case, all the models are calling for a huge artic blast about that time.  I just hope it isn't like 1983, and all the damage that caused.
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2022, 02:05:09 pm »
Also seems the biggest bullseye for the artic blast per model data seems centered around the Ohio Valley

KY, IL, IN, TN, OH, and WV might see temperatures up to 25 degrees below normal.  Generally in that area that means highs in single digits and lows in negative single digits.  With an added 3-6" snowpack.

Those in the cental plains, and westward look like they are going to be missing the bitter cold.  At least by their standards.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 02:06:19 pm by catfish1957 »
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2022, 02:06:22 pm »
We have not had a white Christmas is several decades... we are due..

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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2022, 02:11:19 pm »
We have not had a white Christmas is several decades... we are due..

Predicting temperatures is a lot easier on Mets than precipitation.  It might be coldest Christmas in decades, but also snowless, depending on storm tracks, and moisture profiles. 

That is why I am pretty comfortable thinking the cold is enevitable, but pinpointing exactly who gets snow is impossible and  you have pretty much  a crap shoot until you  get to a 24-72 hr. window.  In any case, for everyone east of the plains, this is an overall best chance in about 20 years.
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2022, 02:13:52 pm »
Predicting temperatures is a lot easier on Mets than precipitation.  It might be coldest Christmas in decades, but also snowless, depending on storm tracks, and moisture profiles. 

That is why I am pretty comfortable thinking the cold is enevitable, but pinpointing exactly who gets snow is impossible until you pretty a crap shoot until you  get to a 24-72 hr. window.  In any case, for everyone east of the plains, this is an overall best chance in about 20 years.

We get rain quite often on Christmas but the temps are usually around 35-40 so a few degrees may do it.... the real problem is when it decides to dump around here it really dumps... 12-27 inches every few years.
We tend to get more ice than snow and that make everything miserable..

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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2022, 08:26:00 am »
Y'all can have some of ours...(second day of "no travel advised" in the western 2/3 of the State, and another day of snow on the way). Getting around town is a 4WD proposition, unless you chain up. No mail delivery yesterday, and chances are that the mails will be messed up in time for Christmas. If they do like they did in April, any backlog will be shoved aside and cleared when the current mail goes through, which made payments I had sent before the storm over three weeks late (they were in the 'backlog pile'). That only cost me $120.00 in stopped payments, late fees, and other fun. My bad. just getting hit with the late fees would have been cheaper than stopping payment.

Oh well, "the check is in the mail".

In the meantime, unless we get an almost catastrophic Chinook, a "White Christmas" is guaranteed. About a foot of snow on the ground outside now, only it keeps drifting about, so it's hard to measure.
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2022, 08:36:11 am »
In the meantime, unless we get an almost catastrophic Chinook, a "White Christmas" is guaranteed. About a foot of snow on the ground outside now, only it keeps drifting about, so it's hard to measure.

Y'all must be getting it from north. Plowed the second time this year so far, but it about needs it again. A foot proper on the ground... less than 18" anyway... Over 4" on the driveway... around 20 degrees right now, for the next couple days, before it heads back to teens and single digits.

Normal for December... maybe a touch cold. But nothing remarkable.

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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2022, 08:39:08 am »
Y'all must be getting it from north. Plowed the second time this year so far, but it about needs it again. A foot proper on the ground... less than 18" anyway... Over 4" on the driveway... around 20 degrees right now, for the next couple days, before it heads back to teens and single digits.

Normal for December... maybe a touch cold. But nothing remarkable.
No, this one's odd. Moved in from the south, and keeps on coming, running into the polar high off to the northwest. I guess the whole thing is being held stagnant by a polar high over Greenland, and that's screwing with folks all the way east to the coast.
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2022, 12:55:10 pm »
No, this one's odd. Moved in from the south, and keeps on coming, running into the polar high off to the northwest. I guess the whole thing is being held stagnant by a polar high over Greenland, and that's screwing with folks all the way east to the coast.

This one at least as at the onset has the same meterorlogical tendencies to what all of us went through on Christmas of 1983 and 1989.  Cold and Snow watchers need to be keen to the directional vector of polar high as it plunges southward late next week.  If we see are more North-South movement, vs. say NW to SE, you'll see the core of 31+ barometric settling alot further south.  And that will translate to brutal cold. Seeing 31+ scooting the Candadian- U.S. border than say Oklahoma/Tx Panhandle will make maybe 20-30 degree difference on how this plays out. 

Secondly watch for what I call the valleys of Bar. Press, around placed highs in these cold outbreaks.  These tend to be where we see the great big snows.  Those pesty upper level lows that dump a dusting to 6" generally can't survive mountains of cold air in the atmosphere, due to most all additonal moisture being squeezed before becoming frozen convection.

Taking a look at the most recent GFS run------>. https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs&region=us&pkg=mslp_pcpn_frzn&runtime=2022121506&fh=132


Polar high core reaches the CONUS (Continental United States) border at mid day on the 20th as a 1061Mb high (wow-Barometric Pressure of 31.31) in a (at first) Montana to  Kansas vector.

Through the 21st, it continues a SE, then southward plunge, targeting the plains with core. Precipitation looks sparse, as the lows at the moment are pushed to along the FL and SC coasts.

Through the 24th, and I see this is big, is that the high stalls around the Dakotas and moderates. This possibly could spare the South and the midwest record breaking cold. In fact a 1035Mb high comes on shore in CA, that is not that much lower than our artic high, which at least in this part of the run is at 1044Mb.  With that.......    There is a real tight pressure gradient between the two highs located Western Nebraska, Western Kansas, and Eastern Colorada.  That kind of setup may create huge snows.

By late Christmas Eve and actual low has formed in Nebraska that moves eastward around the north of the High that has moderated (1034Mb) This run would indicate big snows from a line say the......   Central ND border through about Omaha Nebraska.  Precipatation in the S, SE, and Midwest looks pretty sparse.

On Christmas, the low seems to stall over Missouri, and southern IL.  I sure hope these models aren't accurate for them.  24 hours of heavy snow?  Yikes. The artic high itself, lifts to the NE. 

Through the 26th, apparently there is enough residual moisture, and cold air to show some minor snow and ice for Mississippi, Alabama, and southern GA, as a Noreaster looking low seems to be forming off the SC coast.


Again...  a warning....  This is model data 7-11 days out.  Just like hurricanes, these are guesses, and not typically accurate.  But, from seeing upper air patterns, and what we are seeing in the Yukon right now, I do think it is a pretty safe bet that everyone from the Continental Divide eastward is going to see some pretty damned cold weather, and a good chance we'll see snows and White Christmases, where we don't normally see them.

And p.s. to NE Briefers......    Same model shows a 974 Mb Noreaster off the east coast by the 28th.  It's proximty to that location, will be huge.

Stay tuned.




« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 12:57:50 pm by catfish1957 »
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2022, 12:56:37 pm »
Update:

Seems the model has tamed quite a bit, from a peaking monster artic blast at 1061mb to topping out at 1054Mb.

Track is almost taking more of a clipper path than earlier runs.  This spares (at least super brutal cold) for the south and southeast.  Midwest, and East coast should still seem some cold cold snowy weather.  In fact the Noreaster that I mentioned yesterday, has now a closer coastal run, very closely  hugging the  the east coast on 23- 24 Dec, slamming into Nova Scotia as a 974 Mb hurricane like storm.

NE Briefers should keep their eyes on this next week. If this scenario plays out watch for significant blizzards and wind and ice driven power outages in that neck of the woods. 
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2022, 01:47:03 pm »
Alas , sunny day and 28 degrees predicted here.

Today it’s pouring rain and a lot of major flooding
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Offline deb

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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2022, 02:52:27 pm »
Day 4 of a major snowstorm. Day 4 of being confined to the farm. Blizzard warning until 6pm tonight.
We will have an abundantly white Christmas.
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2022, 02:59:51 pm »
Looks like single digits and negatives at night here in the Florida of Iowa, and maybe even a white Christmas.
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2022, 03:07:07 pm »
In coastal Massachusetts, I've seen more rainy Christmas Eves and Days than snowy ones.
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2022, 03:31:14 pm »
In coastal Massachusetts, I've seen more rainy Christmas Eves and Days than snowy ones.

Keep your eye on a noreaster this year.  As you likely know, the track of the low is critical and 50 miles can be the difference in 3' of cold rain and 30' of snow.  And the difference in 30 and 70 mph winds.
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2022, 04:00:04 pm »
Great Nor'easters are actually sub-tropical hurricanes.

The traditional setup is a warm, moist low moving north; and a cold dry low moving east; combining of transferring energy to a Mid-Atlantic low that experiences bombogenisis as it moves Northeast near the New England coast.

The track of the big red L makes all the differences.  Because of the tight banding of a storm undergoing bombogenisis, it only takes a few miles to move the rain-sleet-ice-snow lines.

As the storm moves towards the Canadian Maritimes, it draws down cold dry air from Canada to freeze everything in its wake.

Every once in a while, there's even Thunder Snow.

A danger of a slow moving Nor'Easter is coastal flooding as a fetch out of the northeast piles up water along the coast line.

They make for challenging and interesting meteorological forecasts, many of which turn out to be wrong in some way.

It seems meteoroligical computers models don't account for precipitation drawing down cold air to the surface.  Many forcecasts miss early transitions from liquid to frozen precipitation.  They also underestimate snow totals because, again, they don't account for precipitation drawing down colder air that increases the snow's "fluff factor".  Dry snow has greater volume per inch of precipitation than wet snow.

Nor'Easters love to prove climatological computer models as inadequate and flawed.
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2022, 04:02:58 pm »
Great Nor'easters are actually sub-tropical hurricanes.

The traditional setup is a warm, moist low moving north; and a cold dry low moving east; combining of transferring energy to a Mid-Atlantic low that experiences bombogenisis as it moves Northeast near the New England coast.

The track of the big red L makes all the differences.  Because of the tight banding of a storm undergoing bombogenisis, it only takes a few miles to move the rain-sleet-ice-snow lines.

As the storm moves towards the Canadian Maritimes, it draws down cold dry air from Canada to freeze everything in its wake.

Every once in a while, there's even Thunder Snow.

A danger of a slow moving Nor'Easter is coastal flooding as a fetch out of the northeast piles up water along the coast line.

They make for challenging and interesting meteorological forecasts, many of which turn out to be wrong in some way.

It seems meteoroligical computers models don't account for precipitation drawing down cold air to the surface.  Many forcecasts miss early transitions from liquid to frozen precipitation.  They also underestimate snow totals because, again, they don't account for precipitation drawing down colder air that increases the snow's "fluff factor".  Dry snow has greater volume per inch of precipitation than wet snow.

Nor'Easters love to prove climatological computer models as inadequate and flawed.

Good luck.  I know y'all all prepare accordingly.
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2022, 04:06:02 pm »
The 10 day for Virginia shows a high in the high teens.... I don't care what language you speak, high and teens do not belong in the same sentence...  :whistle:

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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2022, 04:07:34 pm »
Media outlets overhype storms to bring in ratings.  There's nothing like impending doom to keep people glued to media outlets as they scurry for supplies.

Storms are a fact of life.  You learn how to live with them.
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2022, 04:12:00 pm »

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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2022, 04:22:02 pm »
Media outlets overhype storms to bring in ratings.  There's nothing like impending doom to keep people glued to media outlets as they scurry for supplies.

Storms are a fact of life.  You learn how to live with them.
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2022, 06:46:29 pm »
Day 4 of a major snowstorm. Day 4 of being confined to the farm. Blizzard warning until 6pm tonight.
We will have an abundantly white Christmas.

Just got back from NW Iowa.  I saw where they shut down I-80.  Predicted highs next week are below zero.
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Re: Christmas Day Forecast: Snowiest and Coldest Since 2000
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2022, 07:29:15 pm »
Just got back from NW Iowa.  I saw where they shut down I-80.  Predicted highs next week are below zero.

Hate it, but it's a good thing for the soil, and keeping critters from migrating north. Will not be licking the well pump next weekend.
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