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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
Illinois Review, Dec 5, 2022 John Di Leo

<Snip>

So this weekend, once again, just like in October, 2020, there was a massive story, revealing anti-American criminality by the Biden family and the Democratic Party. And once again, just like in October, 2020, it sank like a dead weight.

This story is hundreds of times bigger, by any objective measure, than the miniscule crimes at the heart of the Watergate scandal, but this was buried by the press. The major networks didn’t even mention it; America’s mainstream print media didn’t report on it. If you didn’t watch Fox News or one of the other stations with overwhelmingly Republican viewers last weekend, you’d never know this huge reveal happened at all.

The biggest news story of the year was buried by the mass media, because it showed the criminality of the Democrats, and it proved that Republicans have been right in all our allegations, all along.

President Trump recognized this, and furiously tweeted about it, rightly demanding that America recognize the elephant in the room, and deal with it:

An election was stolen, in numerous, almost countless ways, in the fall of 2020. Because of the secret ballot, it’s impossible to truly audit the election; nobody can prove definitively one way or the other exactly how many legitimate votes either candidate received. But there has long been proof – from the evidence of ballot harvesting to intentional interruption of the chain of custody of ballots in battleground states, from nonresidents being outright encouraged to register from friends’ houses in Georgia to stacks of claimed addresses being proven to be nonexistent after the election in Pennsylvania – that there was ample opportunity for enough massive fraud to more than flip the elections, not only of the presidency but of a host of races downballot as well.

And now the President sees further criminality – the illegal suppression of pro-Republican news stories at the behest of federal employees, two weeks before an election – and he understandably turns to social media himself to call it out.

President Trump’s basic point is so clear it shouldn’t even require repeating: how much undeniable proof does it take for America to right a wrong?

[...]

This is the core of President Trump’s “truth” of December 3 (for the uninitiated, that’s what users of TruthSocial call what would be called a “post” on Facebook or a “tweet” on Twitter): that it’s high time we start aiming for restitution when elections are stolen.

What is restitution? Only the rational correction of the status quo after a crime has been proven. Restitution has existed in law for thousands of years; not all crimes carry it, and it’s usually not guaranteed in the law books, but it’s often used. Rob a bank, and you may get a lower sentence if you can return the money. Steal a car, and the judge will give you a break if you took care of it so it could be returned intact to its owner. Infringe on a patent, and the courts will be kinder to you if you can pay the rightful patent holder all the money he would have made on it if your crime had never occurred.

President Trump is clumsy in saying so, but his central point is that it isn’t just President Trump who was robbed by the stolen election of 2020; it’s the entire country. The result of that crime was the Biden-Harris regime, and likely the Democrat majority in the House and Senate as well.

President Trump recognizes that the right solution to a crime, everywhere from the English common law to the philosophy classroom, is to convict and punish the criminals, and arrange whatever restitution and restoration is still possible.

[...]

So President Trump did what we must all be doing – all of us, anyway, who are awake. He is screaming to the rafters that this is insane, that we know the perpetrators, we know what went wrong and how they did it, we have the evidence before us, and we could still right this ship before it’s too late, so let’s Just Do It! His inner executive, the decision-maker, sees the logical solution and states it out loud.

It’s not in the statutes, it’s not in the Constitution, it’s not anywhere in writing. This hasn’t happened before, but if we want the nation to survive another 200 years, we need to act NOW.


More:  https://www.illinoisreview.com/illinoisreview/2022/12/clumsy-but-correct-president-trump-and-the-challenge-of-restitution.html




« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 01:41:57 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2022, 01:50:05 pm »
Bullcrap.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2022, 02:01:47 pm »

Offline roamer_1

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2022, 02:08:13 pm »
Nonsense.

Yes. It is nonsense. Dangerous nonsense.

Online Texas Yellow Rose

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2022, 02:10:37 pm »
 :bkmk:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2022, 02:23:31 pm »
Yes. It is nonsense. Dangerous nonsense.

Your immediate assessment of the essay you didn't read is nonsense  ---  dangerous, yet predictable, nonsense.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2022, 02:27:31 pm »
Your immediate assessment of the essay you didn't read is nonsense  ---  dangerous, yet predictable, nonsense.

I DID read it. Enough to cry bullcrap.

You might wonder why there is no recourse. That might inform you.

Online Bigun

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2022, 02:47:35 pm »
Yes. It is nonsense. Dangerous nonsense.

How about this:

Quote
Article III

Section 1.

The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office.

Section 2.

The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.

In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.

The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed.

@roamer_1
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online catfish1957

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2022, 02:56:08 pm »
Nonsense.

BS....

We all know it was stolen, but there is nothing that can be done constitutionally to reverse the dirty deed.  Huffing and puffing only gives DJT more of that sore loser look.  Seems his surrogates are still barking that song and dance. 

So instead how about us some how lighting a fire under the GOP to obsessively, I mean obsessively work toward putting in fail safe systems  to fix the problem once and for all.

Beleive me....  whining about 2020 in 2024 will be an absolute losing strategy.  Until, the orange faction realizes that, we will see more of the same.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2022, 02:56:30 pm »
How about this:

@roamer_1

We've gone around this tree before @Bigun

Offline aligncare

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2022, 02:58:09 pm »
Bull crap? Every word of the editorial was true.

You could lay down if you want to @roamer_1 but, I’m not buying that we should just kick the can down the road; I doubt many MAGA’s are.

Donald Trump now is the same man I cheered during his presidency.  I have no reason to stop trusting him.  They subverted him then and they’re subverting him now with more lies.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2022, 03:02:10 pm »
BS....

We all know it was stolen, but there is nothing that can be done constitutionally to reverse the dirty deed.  Huffing and puffing only gives DJT more of that sore loser look.  Seems his surrogates are still barking that song and dance. 

So instead how about us some how lighting a fire under the GOP to obsessively, I mean obsessively work toward putting in fail safe systems  to fix the problem once and for all.

Beleive me....  whining about 2020 in 2024 will be an absolute losing strategy.  Until, the orange faction realizes that, we will see more of the same.

That's right. There will be no triumphal win.
After cert the only recourse is criminal prosecution, and perhaps suit against (each of) the state or state legislatures civilly for fiduciary compensation and/or correcting the problem.

That's all there is. And in order for that to go forward requires a butt-load of proof and a metric butt-ton of money better spent else-wise... Because the fight would be prolonged and the win not likely.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2022, 03:06:19 pm »
Bull crap? Every word of the editorial was true.

You could lay down if you want to @roamer_1 but, I’m not buying that we should just kick the can down the road; I doubt many MAGA’s are.

Donald Trump now is the same man I cheered during his presidency.  I have no reason to stop trusting him.  They subverted him then and they’re subverting him now with more lies.

@aligncare
Yes it is bullcrap. What you intend tears down the certification and maybe the electoral college, and if successful, will set a precedent that will guarantee split-decision elections and endless court battles to pound out every last vote detail... Leaving every election in court long after the term the office would allow.

Unintended consequences. This is a sterling case of dumbassery.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 03:20:33 pm by roamer_1 »

Online catfish1957

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2022, 03:06:36 pm »
That's right. There will be no triumphal win.
After cert the only recourse is criminal prosecution, and perhaps suit against (each of) the state or state legislatures civilly for fiduciary compensation and/or correcting the problem.

That's all there is. And in order for that to go forward requires a butt-load of proof and a metric butt-ton of money better spent else-wise... Because the fight would be prolonged and the win not likely.

And the sheer fact that the federal deficit (even inflation adjusted) went up quicker under DJT than any other POTUS in U.S. history (Past 50 years) has addtionally diminished  any incentive for me to the help the guy.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 03:30:58 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2022, 03:09:21 pm »

Donald Trump now is the same man I cheered during his presidency.  I have no reason to stop trusting him.  They subverted him then and they’re subverting him now with more lies.

And BTW @aligncare , There's your first problem, right there.
That you trust ANYONE in government is a grievous error.

Online catfish1957

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2022, 03:10:30 pm »
And BTW @aligncare , There's your first problem, right there.
That you trust ANYONE in government is a grievous error.

Good point.  i have trouble believing ANY Briefer trusts ANY politican.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2022, 03:12:15 pm »
And the sheer fact that the federal deficit (even inflation adjusted) went up quicker under DJT than any other POTUS in U.S. history has addtionally tarnished any incentive for me to the help the guy.

Well, me too... but that ain't it. It's the principle of the thing. Trying to overthrow an election is insane. Even if you're right about being cheated. What this will do if successful is grim.

Online LMAO

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2022, 03:12:37 pm »
And BTW @aligncare , There's your first problem, right there.
That you trust ANYONE in government is a grievous error.

Post of the year

Even candidates that I have supported and voted for in the past, I am always suspicious of people who wield power over peoples lives regardless of what side of the political spectrum they inhabit
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Online Bigun

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2022, 03:30:01 pm »
We've gone around this tree before @Bigun

Yes! We have @roamer_1 and that discussion remains at the very heart of it all! Either we have a constitution or we don't. It really is that simple and, as I see it, we don't at this point.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2022, 03:40:31 pm »
Yes! We have @roamer_1 and that discussion remains at the very heart of it all! Either we have a constitution or we don't. It really is that simple and, as I see it, we don't at this point.

Well @Bigun , A nominally Republican SCOTUS front loaded with three of his own appointments didn't see it that way.

Thankfully, btw. I don't need New York telling Montana what to do...

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2022, 03:45:12 pm »
Well @Bigun , A nominally Republican SCOTUS front loaded with three of his own appointments didn't see it that way.

Thankfully, btw. I don't need New York telling Montana what to do...

What part of "All parties to the constitution are subject it's terms" do you not understand @roamer_1
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2022, 03:57:41 pm »
What part of "All parties to the constitution are subject it's terms" do you not understand @roamer_1

I understand it perfectly, @Bigun

Online Bigun

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Re: Clumsy but Correct - President Trump and the Challenge of Restitution
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2022, 04:04:36 pm »
I understand it perfectly, @Bigun

In Texas vs Pennsylvania Alito, joined by Thomas, noted that in his view the Supreme Court did not “have discretion to deny the filing of a bill of complaint in a case that falls within our original jurisdiction.”

They did not say anything about how they might vote on the issues presented but they were correct in saying that SCOTUS does not have discretion to deny the filing of a bill of complaint in a case that falls within its original jurisdiction. @roamer_1
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien