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Is NATO the aggressor in Ukraine?
Hoodat:
--- Quote from: unite for individuality on October 14, 2022, 01:52:00 pm ---Several years ago, Russia installed a puppet government in Belarus.
Upon further reflection, I'm thinking that Russia tried to do the same in Ukraine.
When that failed, Russia then decided to invade.
--- End quote ---
That is exactly what happened. Ukraine ousted the Russian puppet, after which Russian troops entered Ukraine.
Smokin Joe:
--- Quote from: unite for individuality on October 14, 2022, 10:38:30 pm ---Here's a comment I posted over in
World News »
The CIA Thought Putin Would Quickly Conquer Ukraine. Why Did They Get It So Wrong?
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,482029.0.html
It's also relevant here, so here it is:
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,482029.msg2722232.html#msg2722232
Re: The CIA Thought Putin Would Quickly Conquer Ukraine. Why Did They Get It So Wrong?
« Reply #10 on: Today at 01:21:29 pm »
unite for individuality
From the start of this war, I figured that
Ukraine was fighting so fiercely because
they remembered the Holodomor.
In the 1930s, the Soviet Union
went into every home in Ukraine and took all the food,
intentionally starving to death several million people.
You can be sure that the survivors of this atrocity
told their children and grandchildren,
so that the knowledge of this
would be as fresh today as it was 90 years ago.
Every single Ukranian knows that surrender means death -
a very long, drawn out, painful death.
Every single Ukranian does not hesitate even slightly
to fight the Russians in the most daring ways possible
because they know that dying in battle is A LOT less painful
than what would happen to them if the Russians win.
--- End quote ---
I, too have mentioned the Holodomor as reason for the Ukrainians fighting so hard, simply because that genocide reduced some of the survivors to eating their dead. No one likes to mention it, but starving people will survive whether it is a plane crash in the Andes or sitting on a cleaned out farm, where even the seed grain has been stolen at gunpoint.
Forget? Never.
Fight? Like never before.
starbuck_archer:
NATO is at fault for Russia becoming an Authoritarian nightmare:
I recommend reading Helen Andrews book about the boomers: https://www.amazon.com/Boomers-Promised-Freedom-Delivered-Disaster/dp/0593086759
Basically, Jeffrey Sachs screwed over Russia after we won the Cold War. Sachs was a deep stater leftist, and left a trail of bodies behind him from Moscow to Kyiv. Without Sachs "kicking the Russians while they were down" in the 90s, it is arguable Putin would not have risen, and we would not have a war in Ukraine today.
The Deep State caused this war.
Hoodat:
--- Quote from: unite for individuality on October 11, 2022, 07:50:22 pm ---I suggest the following solution:
Let Russia annex the eastern and southern parts of Ukraine,
and let the rest of Ukraine join NATO.
Establish a joint security force to protect the pipelines.
It seems to me that that solution would be
the most fair arrangement possible for all sides.
--- End quote ---
Most fair? I suggest that Russia get the hell out of Ukraine and stop launching missiles and artillery shells at Ukrainian civilians. And if they don't like Ukraine's borders, then they should blame themselves for drawing them. They should have to live with their decision.
art.prout:
--- Quote from: unite for individuality on October 14, 2022, 01:52:00 pm ---
For several decades, Moscow has been protected by an anti ballistic missile system.
It appears that this system is not able to respond quickly enough
to stop a missile launched from just 300 miles.
So, Russia does have reason to feel threatened.
I don't want to give Russia a complete pass.
Several years ago, Russia installed a puppet government in Belarus.
Upon further reflection, I'm thinking that Russia tried to do the same in Ukraine.
When that failed, Russia then decided to invade.
I tend to think that, if Donald Trump was still in office,
he would have negotiated a reasonable settlement,
something like what I proposed in the original post.
But with NATO in the hands of puppets of people like George Soros,
who are willing to spend millions of lives to increase their own power,
it looks to me like both sides are totally willing to drag us all into a larger war.
20th Century -- "I killed over a hundred million people in wars, and even larger numbers in purges!"
21st Century -- "Hold my latte."
--- End quote ---
It is well beyond "willing"
It is the intention.
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