The Russians Blew Up Their Own Pipeline

[aligncare]

Communism has never been so healthy as it has since it was declared "dead".

Because it was "dead" its proponents could repackage any and all aspects of it and sell them to naive students in the west--which they have been doing for two generations now. A little media infiltration and load up the education establishment, the whole philosophy can be sold under a new name and "Communism" is no longer the rally point for resistance against it--because it is "dead".
Look up from the monitor (media).
Just because someone ripped the leads off, it doesn't mean the patient flatlined.

Communism is almost like a virus of the human soul and can lay dormant until triggered by cofactors, then it spring into an infective stage.  It’s a grotesque, soul sucking ideology: Communism is yucky (as my kids would say).

[sneakypete]

@Smokin Joe   @Fishrrman

Communism has never been so healthy as it has since it was declared "dead".

AMEN!

The first time I visted Russia was only a few months  after the "collapse" of communism,and anybody that wanted to buy a ticket could go there and visit.

The Russian citizens I met in Moscow,with only ONE exception,were excited to meet and speak with an actual American,and told me things openly they would have only said with family when the Soviets were still in charge. Not being fools,they kept reminding me over and over to not repeat any of it to anyone else in Russia,or to use their names.

While they were truly celebrating their new freedoms,being Russians,they were not entirly sure it wasn't a trick to trap people speaking "anti-Soviet thoughts". They probably said things to me they would have never dreamed of speaking to a fellow Russia because it was clear that I wasn't in any way involved with the Russian police.

AND......,it should go without saying they were all more than a little skeptical about how "real" the new freedoms were.
 
Maybe the best example of this was my  friend Vladimir from Yoshkar-Ola. He was an engineering professor at the local university,and his wife taught 4 or 5 different languages,including the almost extinct langer of the native peoples of Yoshkar-Ola,who were all but extinct by that time. The natives completly dominated the region,but then Stalin moved everybody into the cities to industrialize the USSR,and boys will be boys and girls will be girls,so by the time I got there there were damn few pure blood natives left. They did have a museum though,and if you look at the historical photos of the people who were living there before the first Caucasian entered,you would think you  were looking at a tribe of Sioux Indians from the American north west.

Anyhow,Vladimar's father happened to have been a Colonel in the KGB,and he grew up in East Germany.
He told me tales about how paranoid his father was about his own family betraying him,right up to the point of having his own home phones tapped. Vladimar told me he beat the Soviet system by building his own radio and listening to the music and news from "Radio Free America".

He was a total gun freak,too. My first visit to his apartment for dinner,he pulls down a Russian version of "Small Arms of the World",and asks me to tell him what guns I own. I would mention one,and he would say something like "Oh,yes! That one is on page 543!" and flip to that page.

Which caused me to ask him why he didn't own a gun,since at that time any Russian could walk into any of the FORMERLY restricted gun stores and legally buy anything they had for sale,and his reply was "This might all be a trick to get people to buy guns,so they can arrest them later."

What does THAT tell you about the mindset of the typical Russian of the time?

Now consider the question "Who understands the Soviet mind better than someone who grew up under that system as a child of the privileged and was able to become a University Professor?"

 

Because it was "dead" its proponents could repackage any and all aspects of it and sell them to naive students in the west--which they have been doing for two generations now.

They have been working on this since the 1920's. Seems like it was primarily in Mn and NYC to start.

A little media infiltration and load up the education establishment, the whole philosophy can be sold under a new name and "Communism" is no longer the rally point for resistance against it--because it is "dead".

And THERE,it is!

"Long live Neo-Communism,comrades!"

 BTW,do NOT take this to mean the typical Russian citizen wants to see a return to Communism. They don't.

Unfortunately for them as well as the rest of the world,Communists still control the Kremlin,which means they still control Russia. ESPECIALLY since "paranoia" is a survival trait that borders on being genetic with the typical Russian. Most trust no one but immediate family,and not even all of them.

Which should give you some idea of how out of control Russia is now with Putin in charge and Russians resisting his draft. Resisting the draft in the US is one thing,but resisting the draft in Russia is something else all-together. It rates right up there with crimes like murder and rape.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete
Start with moving heavy machinery during spring breakup. Utterly asinine.
You don't do that unless you're desperate, and as a military guy, he knows it.

But he does it anyway? Really? And his whole plan is committed to getting those troops and heavy machinery in place... Totally rookie dumass mistake.

Ask why about that.

@roamer_1

"Desperation" combined with insanity.

The "I AM your AUTH-ORITAY,Vladimar Cartman!"

Putin has lost his freaking mind,and is working off of desperation. This could get ugly on an epic scale,or it is POSSIBLE some of the younger and more sane members of the Politburo might arrest him and remove him from power.

Right now no one seems to really know what is going to happen,but the one thing we all know is that what is happening now can NOT continue. He needs to either conquer Ukraine,or pull out. There IS no "in-between".

And if he uses nukes,that will be the end of Russia. I truly hope some of the younger Politburo members understand this,because the geezers at the top clearly don't seem to see it.

[roamer_1]

"Desperation" combined with insanity.
[...]

Putin has lost his freaking mind,and is working off of desperation.

@sneakypete

Yeah, that's the thing, see... I don't believe that.

[sneakypete]

Communism is almost like a virus of the human soul and can lay dormant until triggered by cofactors, then it spring into an infective stage. It’s a grotesque, soul sucking ideology: Communism is yucky (as my kids would say).

@aligncare

That is because at it's core,it is based on greed and envy,which leads to the desire to punish those more fortunate than you by taking away anything they have that you  don't have.

Sadly,this is a human trait that we all share to some degree. It is what inspires and motivates some people to be wildly successful in life,and most people to work hard and save in order to do better than their parents and live comfortable lives to provide for their children.

The dedicated Communists are really nothing but slave owners who  want to own the entire world and everyone in it. Their idea of "equality" is to have everyone BUT themselves equally poor and dependent on the political system for everything including food,shelter,and medical care.

It is nothing less than a slave state.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

Yeah, that's the thing, see... I don't believe that.

@roamer_1

I can't understand why. He has done everything but rent billboards to broadcast his insanity.

[Idiot]

Several years ago I'd believe what the government told me.  Today, I believe next to nothing it says.  I'm not saying the U.S. blew up the pipeline, but I sure wouldn't put it past them as it's most likely.

I read the pipeline was in 300' of water and encased in concrete.  It took a government to pull this off.

[Bigun]

I have exactly zero trust in anything the FedGov says and that has been the case for a LONG time.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

I can't understand why. He has done everything but rent billboards to broadcast his insanity.

@sneakypete

... According to the media and the feral government... 

And I don't buy it.

[roamer_1]

Several years ago I'd believe what the government told me.  Today, I believe next to nothing it says.  I'm not saying the U.S. blew up the pipeline, but I sure wouldn't put it past them as it's most likely.

I read the pipeline was in 300' of water and encased in concrete.  It took a government to pull this off.

I don't know what happened either - But I sure as hell know better than to listen to what they're trumpeting. 

[roamer_1]

I have exactly zero trust in anything the FedGov says and that has been the case for a LONG time.

That's right.

[Smokin Joe]

@sneakypete

... According to the media and the feral government... 

And I don't buy it.

Putin had a slew of perfectly rational reasons for wanting to invade and conquer at least the Eastern part of Ukraine (including the Crimea).

Control of oil and gas in the region Eastern Ukraine has 87% of the pre-war oil and gas production in Ukraine, with about 400 million barrels of proven reserves, and potential for a lot more, especially offshore. pre war production was in the 70,000 BOPD range about 10 years ago, had been in the 35,000 BOPD range from 2016 until last year, and fell to near zero since the war started.

Control/seizure of industry  Eastern Ukraine also had steelworks which produced armor plate, among other things (that the Russians ordered for their armored vehicles), and missile components as well, in the same region. Capture of that industry intact was likely a hoped-for outcome, denying it to others second best.

Port control on the Black Sea. Initial aspirations included capturing ("liberating") Odessa, which would have meant that Russia would have control of ports half way around the Black Sea, and with Crimea, be effectively able to control the pond. The only real potential adversary there would be the Turks (NATO member) who also control the straits that allow entry from/to the Mediterranean.

Control of increased land area to emplace pipelines to eastern Europe and grain growing regions, guaranteeing control of oil and Natural Gas to the continent. Mere transshipment means a slice of the pie. Supply and shipment means the whole pie. Keep in mind that Putin fully recognizes the boondoggle of "renewables" and that they will fail to provide the necessary energy to keep the lights on and wheels turning in Europe. Putin was KGB when the Soviets bankrolled a number of conservation organizations worldwide, effectively turning them into "Environmentalists" with the hopes that they could be used to hamper the development of Western Industry (a ploy that has worked swimmingly, and has accumulated so many 'true believers' that it has become self-sustaining, even government subsidized, where it has been allowed to). The grain grown in Ukraine is primarily grown in the vicinity of the major rivers, and Eastern Ukraine accounts for a significant portion of that. (recall the Holodomor).

Control of the Coastlines, means control of shipping into and out of the region (with a 'cut' of each shipment at one or more levels), but even more it means control of offshore resources, including any oil and natural gas, as well as fisheries. There are areas of the Black Sea off Crimea with high potential for reserves.


Control of the majority of the fourth or fifth (depending on year) largest grain exporter's shipments, nearly 3.6 million metric tonnes in 2020,primarily by sea. (Russia is first in grain exports, followed closely by the US and Canada which are neck and neck for second/third at over 6.3 million Metric tonnes, and France which was fourth in 2020). Even if Russia was unsuccessful in seizing the growing regions, controlling shipment by boat means a serious cut of the value of that grain.

These all add up to basic economic incentives to wage a fast 'war of liberation' on the Eastern Oblasts, provided that the propaganda about them welcoming Russian occupation was true.

It appears that was not the case, and Ukraine's determination to keep the territory it had, if not regain Crimea, too, may well outweigh the propaganda to be had as a result of any elections rigged by deporting any not loyal to the concept of Russian occupation to Russia to be sequestered in various camps there (or buried in mass graves) before holding "elections" to decide whether that district is to remain in Russian control.

As I said, there were many rational reasons to desire the conquest of Eastern Ukraine, it is just that the price has been far higher for the Russians than was initially anticipated. The Russian Blitzkrieg fizzled and has proven very costly in terms of men and materiel and prestige, but that is the result of bad decisions, the belief that Russian forces were better equipped and prepared than they were, and underestimating the GFFs inherent in terrain, weather, and the raw ability/determination of the Ukrainians to fight back.

[sneakypete]

Putin had a slew of perfectly rational reasons for wanting to invade and conquer at least the Eastern part of Ukraine (including the Crimea).

@Smokin Joe

You can't possibly think that just because someone wants something,that gives them the right to just take it?

Besides,Ukraine and Russia have been dealing with each other for decades,and he could have pretty much expected to get "sweetheart deals" for their oil,gas,and iron if he had been willing to negoiate with them.

That wasn't good enough. He wanted to make them slaves to Russia,and was willing to send tens of thousand of both Russian and Ukrainian soldiers and civilians to their deaths in order to steal it and enslave them,than to just bargain and  get a good deal.

I feel sorry for both the typical Russian and the typical Ukranian that has died or suffered  due to this insane war,but would stand up and cheer if I saw video of Putin running down red square while on fire.

[DB]

@Smokin Joe

You can't possibly think that just because someone wants something,that gives them the right to just take it?

Besides,Ukraine and Russia have been dealing with each other for decades,and he could have pretty much expected to get "sweetheart deals" for their oil,gas,and iron if he had been willing to negoiate with them.

That wasn't good enough. He wanted to make them slaves to Russia,and was willing to send tens of thousand of both Russian and Ukrainian soldiers and civilians to their deaths in order to steal it and enslave them,than to just bargain and  get a good deal.

I feel sorry for both the typical Russian and the typical Ukranian that has died or suffered  due to this insane war,but would stand up and cheer if I saw video of Putin running down red square while on fire.

That's not what he was suggesting. He's suggesting that Putin coveted those things and thought he could take them by force. And wildly miscalculated.

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe

You can't possibly think that just because someone wants something,that gives them the right to just take it?

Besides,Ukraine and Russia have been dealing with each other for decades,and he could have pretty much expected to get "sweetheart deals" for their oil,gas,and iron if he had been willing to negoiate with them.

That wasn't good enough. He wanted to make them slaves to Russia,and was willing to send tens of thousand of both Russian and Ukrainian soldiers and civilians to their deaths in order to steal it and enslave them,than to just bargain and  get a good deal.

I feel sorry for both the typical Russian and the typical Ukranian that has died or suffered  due to this insane war,but would stand up and cheer if I saw video of Putin running down red square while on fire.

I'm not trying to justify what Putin has done, just to show he gambled on a fast conclusion to the war and an easy victory, and got neither. That may make him misinformed (about capabilities and other intel), even grossly mistaken, but in view of his rational reasons for making the conquest, not crazy.

Wanting 'it all' is not so much insane as bloody greedy.

I agree, a lot of people who were lied to have died, and some who haven't been (lied to), and the one who started it all is the one who should pay (inasmuch as one can in this life) for the results.

Of all the alleged corners Putin is backed into, that is one he painted his way into, himself. Russia is not known for having a history of kind outcomes for those who show flaws in their leadership.

The only question is one of just how far Russians are willing, at any level, to go along with Putin before they decide their personal cost will be too high for his ambition and failure.

Slinging nukes won't win anything for Russia or the average Russian.

[sneakypete]

That's not what he was suggesting. He's suggesting that Putin coveted those things and thought he could take them by force. And wildly miscalculated.

@Smokin Joe   @DB

If that is true and I misread/misunderstood what he wrote,I can only offer my apologies.

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe   @DB

If that is true and I misread/misunderstood what he wrote,I can only offer my apologies.

No harm, no foul. We're good. I have been misunderstood before.

I think I laid it out in the post just above the one quoted here. I am not excusing Putin's act of military aggression, nor any of the individual miseries and deaths that have resulted from it.

Putin (greedy, not insane) thought he could pick up the Eastern Ukraine and its resources easily and quickly, either because of bad intel, propaganda getting stirred in with the facts, overestimating his force capabilities and readiness, underestimating the terrain effects, and underestimating Zelenskyy and his ability to inspire Ukrainians to fight ('I don't need a ride, I need more ammunition'--probably the MOST inspirational quote of the war, and ranks with John Paul Jones' "We have not begun to fight" or Lloyd Williams' "Retreat Hell! We just got here!").

What ever the reason(s), Putin thought he had an easy plum to pick and it turned out to not be the case. The combined GFFs bit him where it hurts.

No way that justifies Putin's actions, imho, it just explains them in a rational framework.
Not crazy, he thought he could get away with it--fast and easy--and he was wrong.

The question is will he, too (personally), along with the countless combatants and civilians on both sides, pay the price for his poor judgement?

As for Russia, any 'regime change' has to come from within or be the act of some government or other enemy that has a beef.

In no way, shape, or form can it even appear to come from the actions of anyone in the West, or it will provide a rallying point which could shift the Russian citizenry's attitudes in favor of further conflict.

[roamer_1]

Putin had a slew of perfectly rational reasons for wanting to invade and conquer at least the Eastern part of Ukraine (including the Crimea).

Don't care, and not the point.

I don't believe he would have acted so rashly... And I really don't believe the press or our government. The very same press and government that y'all were perfectly and adamantly against wrt information about Tumpy... Writing every bit of that off...

But you are willing to blithely eat everything they feed you now...

Putin is beside the point.

[Smokin Joe]

Don't care, and not the point.

I don't believe he would have acted so rashly... And I really don't believe the press or our government. The very same press and government that y'all were perfectly and adamantly against wrt information about Tumpy... Writing every bit of that off...

But you are willing to blithely eat everything they feed you now...

Putin is beside the point.

Whoa, there, waitaminit!
I have yet to watch the mainstream press accounts of the war--almost any of it, mainly because I've been on wellsites where I either don't have time for TV or simply cannot stream the videos. We have monitoring equipment out there that is the necessary bandwidth hog.

IIRC, the MSM was yabbling about the alleged Nazis everywhere under every bed in the Eastern Ukraine, that Putin was going to free the 'true Russians' from by 'liberating' the eastern oblasts. At least that;s what was being said around here.

I'm not eating the press bit, just looking at non-war/pre war related facts from other sources.
Eastern Ukraine is/was known for its oil production in the region, grain production, steel mills, coal reserves, ports, and even its missile industry (pre-war).

Desirable assets? Yep. The steelworks even shipped armor plate to the Russians pre-war, and sold them missile components. Maybe someone thought they could get a better deal if the Russians owned it all.

At the root of virtually every war is an economic motive, either straight up, or the seizure of power or assets to get that economic benefit.

I recall lots of prewar propaganda about how the (predominantly Russian speaking) people in the eastern provinces were just Russians waiting for liberation?
Which sounds a mite like the Alsace Lorraine in WWII--good, oppressed Germans waiting to be liberated (along with their industry and resources).

Justification to 'liberate' them...not to mention all the goodies that come with the turf?

It's the same play. History repeats itself, only this time, the invasion isn't allowed to keep going.

It's easy to demonize Putin, but it was his call (if he's running the show), just as much as Hitler crossing into Poland or the Kaiser into France. Only, the Ukrainians are doing a better job of fighting the invasion, helped by the endemic lack of maintenance on Russian armored vehicles, wet weather, and deceptive terrain. 

Whether true or a 'war story' like The Ghost, the quote attributed to Zelenskyy, "I don't need a ride, i need more ammunition" is the sort of thing that can really inspire resistance, and I believe it has. None who values what freedom they have (or fears having much less) can fail to be inspired by a leader who stays and asks for the means to fight, whether those lines were for the tourists or not.

What leaders of the 'Free World' could fail to pitch in and help?
Well played--either great propaganda or marvelous international manipulation, but effective either way.

As for the aid being sent: Weapons systems from the east bloc first, on par with most Russian systems or close, because that's where they likely came from or were designed, even if a little dated. Eastern European countries desiring to join NATO or members already are clearing out their garage sale items which were fully compatible with the training the Ukrainians already had, and it was welcome there.

Money for replacements will go to the Military Industrial Complex in the west as NATO and wannabes standardize weapons systems and upgrade, and the West generally has a better reputation for their stuff working (with the possible exception of the AK-47 and related small arms).
In the West, the possibilities for skimming funds all around over weapons contracts are likely mind-boggling, so for the pols, lobbyists, and others, this is a winner!
 
We send some samples of systems that haven't been battle=tested and get to see how they do, but we also dust off a lot of aging stores (which will have to be replaced at some point) and get to tally those up as aid (which they are), but on the back side of that, more contracts, mo' money!

Eastern Europe, either NATO or under the umbrella gets to standardize with NATO and upgrade their stuff.

The old stuff gets sent off before it cooks off in a magazine somewhere or has to be decommissioned, and letting Ukraine fire those shells or shoot those rockets is cheaper than decommissioning, and they will be replaced with the latest with a full shelf life.

The M.I.C. is key to the funding, because the aid will be sent at top dollar, the replacements at cost plus, and the opportunities for baksheesh, cumshaw, and basic grift and graft are simply astonishing.
I'd be shocked if 30% of the 'government funds' are getting there in any form. Some of the NGOs are likely to be spending more than 50% on their advertised mission than they are on 'costs' which would include fat salaries and perks for people at the top, of course, but that's only because they have to keep the fundraising thing going, too.

I'm not seeing saints all over anywhere, but the bottom line is that Russia invaded Ukraine, starting with Crimea, and is in Phase 2 of the process, only this phase hasn't gone well.

Putin miscalculated, badly, and this mess is the result. He may even have believed what he had been told by advisors, and any leader can be misled by those who are supposed to be giving him accurate information. (Fauci et. al. did that to Trump, IMHO).


If Putin really is in with the Globalists, or maybe if any of them are in tight with the whole Davos depopulation thing, then we can expect at least a limited nuclear conflict to play into that, regardless of who gets the blame for starting it. None of us have the spectral data analysis equipment to determine the origin of any of what gets cooked off, and even that can be spoofed. I am sure neither of us want to wake up and look East to a bunch of fast contrails heading north...and I suspect no one else really does either, but I can't rule out such an event. The only question is one of how far that would go if it gets started.

Recall, in End Times prophecy, no mention of the US as a player has been inferred.
God will judge, and He is the only one I worship.

I'm just posting my opinions on a web forum. 
They are worth every nickel you spent on them.

[Right_in_Virginia]

David Reaboi, Late Republic Nonsense
@davereaboi

The really great thing about America is, immigrants can come here; run foreign policy for America as it relates to their home country; and dream of nothing more than crushing their home country’s adversaries. Nice country!

Alexander S. Vindman
@AVindman
·8h

I’ve been dreaming of this moment.

4:43 PM · Oct 8, 2022  Twitter for iPhone

[roamer_1]

Whoa, there, waitaminit!

First off, to clarify, I did not aim that at !YOU! - I DID say 'y'all'...

As to the rest, still don't care.
What I am waiting for is to see if they finally drag Putin down... And if/when they do, what will rise up in his place. If what arises bows to Davos and the world order, I will know I am right.