Author Topic: Ukraine 3  (Read 163651 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1675 on: January 20, 2023, 04:41:43 am »
I believe that many opinions on Ukraine and Russia are driven by a belief (whether true or not) that Trump and Putin are best friends.  #AlwaysTrumpers tend to side with Russia, while ardent #NeverTrumpers tend to side against Russia.  And the Biden regime's (fake) support of Ukraine also factors in for more anti-Ukraine opinions.  I personally have been accused of being in bed with Biden because of my support for Ukraine.

I support Ukraine because they are the victim here, they are the underdog, and they want their country back.  I oppose Russia because they invaded their neighbor, they are bullies, they have committed war crimes, and they continue to push forward with zero moral authority.  My belief is not based on where Biden or Trump stand on this issue.
Perceptions are funny things in the false dichotomies of partisan politics. That's all I have to say about the first paragraph, except to note that Democrats and Media expect the Right to follow like their drones, when we do not, necessarily.

The part in bold I agree with completely.
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Online Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1676 on: January 20, 2023, 02:26:19 pm »
I believe that many opinions on Ukraine and Russia are driven by a belief (whether true or not) that Trump and Putin are best friends. #AlwaysTrumpers tend to side with Russia, while ardent #NeverTrumpers tend to side against Russia.  And the Biden regime's (fake) support of Ukraine also factors in for more anti-Ukraine opinions.  I personally have been accused of being in bed with Biden because of my support for Ukraine.

I support Ukraine because they are the victim here, they are the underdog, and they want their country back.  I oppose Russia because they invaded their neighbor, they are bullies, they have committed war crimes, and they continue to push forward with zero moral authority.  My belief is not based on where Biden or Trump stand on this issue.

 goopo

Yup.  And plus Putin has been quite open about his desire to rebuild the Russian Empire in general (including Alaska), and the Soviet Union in particular.  It's frustrating that so many people, who should know better, won't take him at his word.

Putin approves new foreign policy doctrine based on 'Russian World'

https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-approves-new-foreign-policy-doctrine-based-russian-world-2022-09-05/

His "Russian World" policy is not that different than Hitler's "Ein Volk" policy.

And the pro-Kremlin crowd have also deluded themselves into believing that Putin and Trump are allies, and that Russia is some mighty Christian crusader nation that is exacting vengeance on Ukraine over the Democrats, the Clintons, the Bidens, and the 2020 election.  They just refuse to see Putin's invasion for what it is...a land and resource grab coupled with empire (re)building.  If he had gotten away with (re)conquering Ukraine, then Moldova and the Baltic states were next on his target list.  He was not going to stop at Lvov. 

They also see it as some kind of cultural war, with the Christian, virtuous, Godly Russians striking back against Western decadence and corruption, as symbolized by Ukraine and its oligarchs.

Never mind the fact, that in truth, Russia is far worse than Ukraine or anywhere else in Europe in its decadence, corruption, and debacuhery.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 02:35:36 pm by Timber Rattler »
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1677 on: January 20, 2023, 03:42:10 pm »
goopo

Yup.  And plus Putin has been quite open about his desire to rebuild the Russian Empire in general (including Alaska), and the Soviet Union in particular.  It's frustrating that so many people, who should know better, won't take him at his word.

Putin approves new foreign policy doctrine based on 'Russian World'

https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-approves-new-foreign-policy-doctrine-based-russian-world-2022-09-05/

His "Russian World" policy is not that different than Hitler's "Ein Volk" policy.

And the pro-Kremlin crowd have also deluded themselves into believing that Putin and Trump are allies, and that Russia is some mighty Christian crusader nation that is exacting vengeance on Ukraine over the Democrats, the Clintons, the Bidens, and the 2020 election.  They just refuse to see Putin's invasion for what it is...a land and resource grab coupled with empire (re)building.  If he had gotten away with (re)conquering Ukraine, then Moldova and the Baltic states were next on his target list.  He was not going to stop at Lvov. 

They also see it as some kind of cultural war, with the Christian, virtuous, Godly Russians striking back against Western decadence and corruption, as symbolized by Ukraine and its oligarchs.

Never mind the fact, that in truth, Russia is far worse than Ukraine or anywhere else in Europe in its decadence, corruption, and debacuhery.

:thumbsup:

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1678 on: January 20, 2023, 03:56:01 pm »
There's a channel on Youtube, which does man on the street interviews in Russia, to see what their thoughts are. It's amazing how many of the "pro-Z" say they hate America but love our Fox News.

https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel

Tucker really went off a rail with this Russia stuff IMO. What an ass, if he isn't on Putin's payroll that is.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1679 on: January 20, 2023, 04:19:20 pm »
There's a channel on Youtube, which does man on the street interviews in Russia, to see what their thoughts are. It's amazing how many of the "pro-Z" say they hate America but love our Fox News.

https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel

Tucker really went off a rail with this Russia stuff IMO. What an ass, if he isn't on Putin's payroll that is.

I get it...   You are all in sending (toilet flushing)  $50-$100B of our tax dollars, while we are $31T in debt.  I see you are additionally fully aligned with Chucky Schumer, and the world class RINO's who prefer the blank check approach to line Zelllinskyyyy's coffers.   All that's missing is your teal and yellow loyalty pin.  Check Ebay or Amazon, if you are interested.

I also see little or no advocacy on your behalf around who really needs to be footing the bill for this war....  The Europeans.  Geographically, I'd say its really more in their best interest than ours.  In fact, some of their (Germany) companies are now just divesting of their Russian holdngs.  Where is your outrage with that?

Carlson brings much to the table calling out the left wing hypocricy on an almost consitent daily basis.  Instead of parroting the false flags that MSNBC plants on his show, focus on what really is important to this country......  Like how nice it would have been sending $50-100B protecting our southern border instead.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 04:30:06 pm by catfish1957 »
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1680 on: January 20, 2023, 04:23:15 pm »
This very weird siding with Russia among some conservatives is something I will never fully understand.   If you try to discuss it with them, they talk in complete circles and refuse to challenge any of their own assumptions while accusing the rest of us of being naive fools.  It's very strange.

Russia had no right to invade and attempt to conquer Ukraine.  Simple as that, and I hope we do everything in our power short of committing troops to defeat that invasion.  Too bad we basically dismantled our surplus M60A1's and A3's, because those would still be more than a match for the T-64/72 series being used by Russia, and we had a lot of them.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1681 on: January 20, 2023, 04:41:21 pm »
This very weird siding with Russia among some conservatives is something I will never fully understand.   If you try to discuss it with them, they talk in complete circles and refuse to challenge any of their own assumptions while accusing the rest of us of being naive fools.  It's very strange.

Russia had no right to invade and attempt to conquer Ukraine.  Simple as that, and I hope we do everything in our power short of committing troops to defeat that invasion.  Too bad we basically dismantled our surplus M60A1's and A3's, because those would still be more than a match for the T-64/72 series being used by Russia, and we had a lot of them.

:thumbsup:

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1682 on: January 20, 2023, 04:52:03 pm »
:thumbsup:

I think what is misunderstood is the left has gaslighted and transversed the anti-Zellinskyyyy and tax dollar grift sentiment into some kind of pro-Putin rhetoric.

Me?  I'd open a bottle of Bubbly if either one of them were offed.   
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1683 on: January 20, 2023, 05:48:17 pm »
I think what is misunderstood is the left has gaslighted and transversed the anti-Zellinskyyyy and tax dollar grift sentiment into some kind of pro-Putin rhetoric.

Me?  I'd open a bottle of Bubbly if either one of them were offed.

Eh, there are plenty of folks at TOS who are openly pro-Russia, based on the idea that Russia is the only hope for civilization resisting the WEF and Globalization.  To them, Russia and the CCP are now the "good guys" because they aren't Davos.

That's not leftist gaslighting.  That's certain conservatives reaching those conclusions on their own, with help from Carlson and the like-minded.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1684 on: January 20, 2023, 08:23:31 pm »
What I said was the truth. Period.

@DB You are so delusional you wouldn't recognize the truth if it bit you on the ass.

There is "Wrong",and then there are people like you that take it to a whole new level.
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1685 on: January 20, 2023, 08:31:01 pm »
I don't need to sell my soul to Putin to oppose Globalism and WEF.

Many conservatives have embraced Putin and a imperial, nationalist Russia because they seek strong, firm leadership which is lacking in the 2023 GOP.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1686 on: January 20, 2023, 10:07:11 pm »
I don't need to sell my soul to Putin to oppose Globalism and WEF.

Many conservatives have embraced Putin and a imperial, nationalist Russia because they seek strong, firm leadership which is lacking in the 2023 GOP.

@DefiantMassRINO

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I don't know of a single one in "real life".
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1687 on: January 20, 2023, 10:36:22 pm »
goopo

Yup.  And plus Putin has been quite open about his desire to rebuild the Russian Empire in general (including Alaska), and the Soviet Union in particular.  It's frustrating that so many people, who should know better, won't take him at his word.

Putin approves new foreign policy doctrine based on 'Russian World'

https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-approves-new-foreign-policy-doctrine-based-russian-world-2022-09-05/

His "Russian World" policy is not that different than Hitler's "Ein Volk" policy.

And the pro-Kremlin crowd have also deluded themselves into believing that Putin and Trump are allies, and that Russia is some mighty Christian crusader nation that is exacting vengeance on Ukraine over the Democrats, the Clintons, the Bidens, and the 2020 election.  They just refuse to see Putin's invasion for what it is...a land and resource grab coupled with empire (re)building.  If he had gotten away with (re)conquering Ukraine, then Moldova and the Baltic states were next on his target list.  He was not going to stop at Lvov. 

They also see it as some kind of cultural war, with the Christian, virtuous, Godly Russians striking back against Western decadence and corruption, as symbolized by Ukraine and its oligarchs.

Never mind the fact, that in truth, Russia is far worse than Ukraine or anywhere else in Europe in its decadence, corruption, and debacuhery.
No arguments here.

The affected areas of Ukraine would have given Russia 87% of Ukraine's proven oil and gas reserves, World class steel mill, nuclear power stations, and Black Sea Ports, but also, drilling rights to any Oil and Gas offshore in the Black Sea.
This is (another) resource/land/transportation control grab.

Own the ports, own the shipping, own the shipping, control trade, and control resources indirectly that you don't directly control.

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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

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C S Lewis

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1688 on: January 21, 2023, 02:59:16 am »
I don't need to sell my soul to Putin to oppose Globalism and WEF.

Many conservatives have embraced Putin and a imperial, nationalist Russia because they seek strong, firm leadership which is lacking in the 2023 GOP.

Do they realize that Putin is leading Russia, not the United States?  And that "strong, firm" Russian leadership doesn't mean squat about life or leadership here?

Stalin was "strong" and "firm".  So too are/were Lenin, Mao,  Brezhnev, Xi, etc..  it's an odd definition of "conservative" that roots for your leftist enemies to have "strong, firm" leadership.


Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1689 on: January 21, 2023, 03:14:34 am »
@DB You are so delusional you wouldn't recognize the truth if it bit you on the ass.

There is "Wrong",and then there are people like you that take it to a whole new level.

Why do you go off the rails like this?

All I said was I know people who are conservatives that think Putin is the good guy for the reasons I stated and that they are big Trump supporters. That is a fact. I do know them and that is what they claim. Yet you are essentially calling me a liar for stating that. WTF.

Go back read what I wrote instead of just throwing more crap around.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1690 on: January 21, 2023, 04:05:26 am »
Do they realize that Putin is leading Russia, not the United States?  And that "strong, firm" Russian leadership doesn't mean squat about life or leadership here?

Stalin was "strong" and "firm".  So too are/were Lenin, Mao,  Brezhnev, Xi, etc..  it's an odd definition of "conservative" that roots for your leftist enemies to have "strong, firm" leadership.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Seems like it should be as obvious to anyone as the sun shining in your eyes,doesn't it?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1691 on: January 21, 2023, 04:08:26 am »
Why do you go off the rails like this?

All I said was I know people who are conservatives that think Putin is the good guy for the reasons I stated and that they are big Trump supporters. That is a fact. I do know them and that is what they claim. Yet you are essentially calling me a liar for stating that. WTF.

Go back read what I wrote instead of just throwing more crap around.

@DB

Those people are "conservatives" like I am a "Space Shuttle".

Anyone can make any claim they want,but making a claim doesn't make it true.

Chances are they are Dim activists posing as Trump supporters to try to harm his support.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1692 on: January 21, 2023, 04:31:42 am »
@DB

Those people are "conservatives" like I am a "Space Shuttle".

Anyone can make any claim they want,but making a claim doesn't make it true.

Chances are they are Dim activists posing as Trump supporters to try to harm his support.

It wouldn't be the first false flag operation, and won't be the last. Just sayin'
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C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1693 on: January 21, 2023, 05:55:54 am »
@DB

Those people are "conservatives" like I am a "Space Shuttle".

Anyone can make any claim they want,but making a claim doesn't make it true.

Chances are they are Dim activists posing as Trump supporters to try to harm his support.

You don't know what you're talking about.

They're hardcore Trump supporters and they've never voted for a Dim in their lives (the specific people I was talking about).

They're just misguided on this particular issue. There's at least one examples here of the same beliefs.

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1694 on: January 21, 2023, 06:15:56 am »
You don't know what you're talking about.

They're hardcore Trump supporters and they've never voted for a Dim in their lives (the specific people I was talking about).

They're just misguided on this particular issue. There's at least one examples here of the same beliefs.

Yes, some members of my family are like this. They would never vote for a Democrat, in fact they think the Democrats and socialists (but I repeat myself) are destroying the country. But they also think that Putin is literally "defending the faith" against the evil WEF globalists. I think this idea is being spread by  video preachers and conspiracy types on Rumble and other places online.  The same kind of people who believed the Q-Anon conspiracies and were just waiting for the military to return Trump to the presidency two years ago.  :shrug:
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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1695 on: January 21, 2023, 01:41:04 pm »
But they also think that Putin is literally "defending the faith" against the evil WEF globalists.

In fact, he's getting his ass kicked.

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1696 on: January 21, 2023, 01:42:39 pm »
I don't need to sell my soul to Putin to oppose Globalism and WEF.

Many conservatives have embraced Putin and a imperial, nationalist Russia because they seek strong, firm leadership which is lacking in the 2023 GOP.

Strong firm leadership... like getting your butt royally smacked by a much smaller army? Putin and the Russian are a bunch of incompetents.

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1697 on: January 21, 2023, 02:12:46 pm »
Strong firm leadership... like getting your butt royally smacked by a much smaller army? Putin and the Russian are a bunch of incompetents.

But yet they refuse to accept this obvious truth, always citing it as propaganda and invoking conspiracy theory nonsense, based on dubious "alternative" news blogs, Youtube v-blogs, and pro-Kremlin hacks like Macgregor, Mercouris, and Johnson.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1698 on: January 21, 2023, 03:04:36 pm »
In fact, he's getting his ass kicked.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

And has been,since the Neo-Soviet invasion started.

Truth to tell,if more than one generation of Soviet worker bee had any experience at all with actual freedom,Putin would have been hanged a long time ago.

Another important truth that people need to be made aware of is that even though Russia is now ALLEGEDLY a "free nation",the truth is that nobody there believes it. I went to Russia the first time right after what was declared to have been "the collapse of communism",and while every Russian I met but one celebrated it,not a single one I talked to believed it was real.

Seems like their suspicions were based more on facts than declarations, doesn't it?   

Neither Russia or any other Communist nation is going to be free of communist control until more than one generation has "lived free".

Much like the US of today. We were a genuine free nation of free people until the property theft know as "The Great Depression" created the conditions that turned us into a socialist nation that at times borders on Communism.

As with today,it was the globalist money managers that created the conditions that lead to the financial collapse because they had piles of cash stacked away with nothing to spend it on,so why not destroy the economy so they could buy up real property at bankruptcy sales and then create more profits by selling it for a profit after writing their purchases losses off their taxes for more than a decade?

"The Great Depression" was created by a cabal of NYC bankers and their investor friends. It started because the big farms in the south were starting to ship their cotton to Europe themselves and bypass the NY banks in order to increase their profits.

THAT was the "beginning of the end" for personal freedoms in America because once people/a political party gains strength and power,they will NEVER give it up. They will only expand it.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1699 on: January 21, 2023, 03:07:14 pm »
I don't need to sell my soul to Putin to oppose Globalism and WEF.

Exactly.  And at the same time, one does not need to sell their soul to the WEF to oppose Putin.
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