Author Topic: Ukraine 3  (Read 163777 times)

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1300 on: December 07, 2022, 04:36:16 pm »
Only Russia’s decisive loss on the battlefield will end the Ukraine war

Which is what I've been saying since Day One.  Unfortunately, the Biden Regime is not in agreement with that outcome.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1301 on: December 07, 2022, 04:39:21 pm »
Ike had it right in 1961

Just as Goldwater had it right in 1964.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1302 on: December 07, 2022, 04:48:41 pm »
Ukrainian Scouts Were In Their Foxholes Near Bakhmut When A Russian Bomber Came Crashing Down

David Axe  |  Dec 6, 2022  |  05:14pm EST



The wreckage of a Russian Su-24 bomber near Bakhmut.UKRAINIAN ARMY PHOTO

A Ukrainian army reconnaissance battalion was directly below when, on the night of Dec. 2, allied forces around Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine shot down the 62nd Russian jet—a twin-engine, supersonic Sukhoi Su-24 bomber.

A recon scout from the Skala Battalion recalled the shoot-down and its grizzly aftermath in a thread on Twitter on Dec. 5. The thread is a window into the brutal air battle over Bakhmut.

Russian forces for months have been trying, and failing, to capture Bakhmut—this despite the town having little military value. Befuddled analysts, struggling to understand the Russians’ obsession with Bakhmut, have proposed motivations that are more political than practical.

Maybe Russian-allied mercenaries from The Wagner Group are fighting for Bakhmut to prove they can succeed where regular Russian troops fail. Maybe the pro-Russian separatist forces in the area view Bakhmut as a symbol of separatist identity. Maybe the Kremlin just craves a victory, even a meaningless one.

In any event, Russian air force fighters and bombers—some flown by regular air force pilots, others crewed by Wagner mercs—relentlessly have bombed Bakhmut and the Ukrainian battalions in and around the town.

The Skala Battalion believed that one Russian plane in particular—the Su-24 with the registration number RF-93798—was prowling over its sector of the Bakhmut front. “For three days [before Dec. 2], this plane’s been circling the war zone and terrorizing military and civilians,” the Skala scout wrote.

“When such a plane flies by, it's really scary, because everyone knows what powerful bombs the bomber is equipped with,” they added.

Around 9:00 P.M. on the night of Dec. 2, Ukrainian troops—reportedly belonging to a paramilitary border-patrol unit—shot down RF-93798.  .  .

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/12/06/ukrainian-scouts-were-in-their-foxholes-near-bakhmut-when-a-russian-bomber-came-crashing-down/
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1303 on: December 07, 2022, 05:00:14 pm »
The Same Missiles That Shot Down An American Stealth Fighter In 1999 Are Now Defending Ukraine

David Axe  |  Dec 7, 2022  |  08:00am EST



An ex-Polish S-125 in Ukrainian service.VIA SOCIAL MEDIA

On March 27, 1999, a Serbian army S-125 surface-to-air missile battery shot down a U.S. Air Force F-117 stealth fighter outside Belgrade. Twenty-three years later, the S-125 stealth-killer still is at war—in Ukraine.

Photos that have circulated online in recent weeks depict at least one ex-Polish S-125 system making its way from Poland to Ukraine, where the Ukrainian air force undoubtedly plans to deploy it in order to shoot down Russian warplanes and missiles.

The ex-Polish S-125 joins ex-Soviet S-125s that already were in Ukrainian service. The Polish SAM is one of a dizzying array of air-defense systems that the U.S., Germany, Spain, France and other countries have pledged to Ukraine since Russia widened its war on the country starting in February.

The goal: to help Kyiv build a wall of missiles and guns around Ukrainian cities and power plants and blunt the impact of relentless Russian air raids.

The S-125 isn’t new. Soviet air-defense troops first deployed the 2,000-pound missile and its associated radars and support equipment around Moscow back in 1960.

Over the next 60 years, the S-125—steadily upgraded with better warheads, fuzes and supporting radars—proved to be one of the world’s most fearsome, and durable, air-defense systems.

Egyptian S-125s between 1970 and 1973 knocked down around a dozen Israeli jets. In 1991, an Iraqi S-125 battery shot down a U.S. Air Force F-16.  .  .

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/12/07/the-same-missiles-that-shot-down-an-american-stealth-fighter-in-1999-are-now-defending-ukraine/?sh=7d0f362e7699



The main difference between Poland and the US here is while the US has pledged heavy AA missiles, Poland has actually delivered heavy AA missiles.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1304 on: December 08, 2022, 03:48:28 pm »
Russians March on Foot to Advance Yards in Bloody Eastern Ukraine Battle

Moscow’s troops have taken positions at the gates of the crossroads city of Bakhmut, sending in waves of infantry despite growing losses

Thomas Grove  |  Dec. 8, 2022  |  5:30 am ET


BAKHMUT, Ukraine—Oleksander Matviyenko, a junior officer in the Ukrainian army here on one of the most hotly contested front lines of the war, fights off Russian attacks with other defenders nearly every day. But they keep on coming.

“We shoot at them, they send more. It doesn’t end,” said Lt. Matviyenko, 26, a yellow-and-blue Ukrainian flag patched onto his olive-green uniform. “There’s so many of them.”

The battle for Bakhmut has become a bloodbath for both sides as Russia steps up its attempts to take what used to be a quaint, tree-lined city. Ukrainian defense officials said Moscow is losing around 50 soldiers a day to maintain a slow, bruising advance to reach the city’s easternmost gates.

If the Russians break through to take control of Bakhmut, it would open a path to the political and economic centers of Slovyansk and Kramatorsk in the Ukrainian-held portions of the Donbas area, once one of the country’s main industrial regions. Moscow tried to seize the area in a pincer movement in the early days of the war and into the summer. After a lightning offensive, Ukraine regained much of the lost ground. Now, as Russia slowly burns through its artillery stockpiles, defense analysts said, its troops are advancing once again but on tank and foot. This time it is so President Vladimir Putin can tout a rare victory to the Russian people after a succession of withdrawals, most recently in Kherson, giving it outsize importance to the Kremlin, analysts said.

“The costs associated with six months of brutal, grinding, and attrition-based combat around Bakhmut far outweigh any operational advantage that the Russians can obtain from taking Bakhmut,” wrote the Institute for the Study of War, a U.S. defense think tank based in Washington, D.C.  .  .  .

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russians-march-on-foot-to-advance-yards-in-bloody-eastern-ukraine-battle-11670406883
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1305 on: December 08, 2022, 03:58:04 pm »
Russians March on Foot to Advance Yards in Bloody Eastern Ukraine Battle



I haven't been following the Ukraine War that closely, but isn't this the same few square miles that have been fought for, for months now.

Almost like WW1 trench warfare.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1306 on: December 08, 2022, 04:22:48 pm »
I haven't been following the Ukraine War that closely, but isn't this the same few square miles that have been fought for, for months now.

Almost like WW1 trench warfare.

There was an article posted earlier comparing it to Passchendaele.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1307 on: December 08, 2022, 04:57:06 pm »
Ukrainian soldiers face a new adversary: muddy trenches

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-soldiers-face-new-adversary-muddy-trenches-2022-11-29/

Quote
Squelching through thick mud on Tuesday, Petro, a Ukrainian soldier dug in not far from Russian positions in the Donbas, recounted matter-of-factly how his unit had to use buckets to clear out water-logged trenches.

"We're more or less okay, but it's bit harder now because of the rain and a light frost. It's a swamp. It's dried a bit today...," the 35-year-old said, warming up in a dugout near the trenches.

"It's okay, we're holding up," he added, laughing.

Heavy rain and falling temperatures are making conditions even grimmer along the frontlines, where tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians are facing off as the war, now in its 10th month, grinds into winter.

Buoyed by the recapture of the southern city of Kherson from Russia this month, Ukraine wants to maintain the initiative on the battlefield even as deteriorating conditions make it harder to manoeuvre easily and for troops to keep warm.





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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1308 on: December 08, 2022, 05:36:56 pm »
Russian rats run away from Crimea. A one-room apartment has dropped in price to some 40-60K euros, but I wouldn't buy it. It may be expropriated UA property that Putin stole from the Ukrainians. And after the war - an indictment from the UA prosecutor.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1309 on: December 09, 2022, 01:49:26 pm »
Russia shells eastern front, Ukraine says, as war aims appear to shift

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-acknowledges-russias-war-ukraine-could-be-long-one-2022-12-07/

Quote
Russian forces have shelled the entire front line in the Donetsk region in eastern Ukraine, Ukrainian officials said, part of what appears to be the Kremlin's scaled-back ambition to secure only the bulk of territory it has claimed.

The fiercest fighting was near the towns of Bakhmut and Avdiivka, the region's governor Pavlo Kyrylenko said in a television interview. Five civilians were killed and two wounded in Ukrainian-controlled parts of Donetsk over the previous day, he said early on Friday.

"The entire front line is being shelled," he said, adding that Russian troops were also trying to advance near Lyman, which was recaptured by Ukrainian forces in November, one of a number of battlefield setbacks suffered by Russia in the past few months.

In Bakhmut and other parts of the Donetsk region that neighbours Luhansk province, Ukrainian forces countered with barrages from rocket launchers, a Reuters witness said.

"The Russians have intensified their efforts in Donetsk and Luhansk," Ukrainian presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said in a video post.

"They are now in a very active phase of attempting to conduct offensive operations. We are advancing nowhere but, rather, defending, destroying the enemy's infantry and equipment wherever it tries to advance."

Excerpt.
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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1310 on: December 09, 2022, 09:53:49 pm »
 **nononono* **nononono*

Russia-Ukraine live news: US warns of expanding Iran, Russia ties

Weapons sent to Ukraine falling in wrong hands: Russia

While battling accusations of violating international agreements, Russia’s ambassador to the UN has said the weapons the West supplied to Ukraine have been falling into the wrong hands, not only in Europe but also in Africa and the Middle East.

Al Jazeera’s Kristen Saloomey reported Vasily Nebenzya as pointing to recent comments by Nigeria’s president, Muhammadu Buhari, who said weapons and fighters from Ukraine were making their way to the Lake Chad region, emboldening and helping violent groups there.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2022/12/9/russia-ukraine-live-news-west-is-exploiting-ukraine-putin
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1311 on: December 09, 2022, 10:01:31 pm »
While battling accusations of violating international agreements, Russia’s ambassador to the UN has said .  .  .

About as much credibility as the NY Times.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1312 on: December 13, 2022, 12:47:55 am »
Ukraine Is Finally Getting More MiG-29s. Maybe.

David Axe  |  Dec 12, 2022  |  06:04pm EST


Slovakia again has pledged to Ukraine all 11 of its old Mikoyan MiG-29 fighters. The country recently placed the jets into storage in anticipation of just such a transfer.

This is not the first time the government in Bratislava has offered its old fighters to Kyiv. The Slovaks first proposed to donate the four-decade-old MiGs back in the spring, in the early weeks of Russia’s wider war on Ukraine.

But the Ukrainians need the MiGs more than ever. Urgently, in fact. The twin-engine, supersonic MiG-29s are the Ukrainian air force’s most numerous and arguably most versatile planes—but they’re running out.

“We haven't handed you the MiG-29s yet,” Rastislav Kacer, Slovakia’s foreign minister, said on Monday. “But we’re ready to do it.”

The proposed transfer previously got tangled up in the delicate diplomacy around the Ukraine-Russia war—as well as in Slovakia’s own air-defense problems.

Poland, one of just a handful of NATO countries including Slovakia that operates—or recently operated—MiG-29s, also had mulled donating its old fighters to Ukraine, but the United States objected to Poland’s proposal to stage the MiGs from an American air base for their flight into Ukraine.

In essence, Warsaw aimed to hide behind Washington as it reinforced Kyiv’s battered air force. But the administration of U.S. president Joe Biden rejected the proposal.

So Poland’s 28 MiGs remained in Poland. But the Biden administration “does not object” to Slovakia giving away its own MiGs, according to Politico. One implication is that Washington is okay with its allies rearming the Ukrainian air force, as long as they don’t ask to use American bases for the transfer.

The other implication is that Slovakia plans to send its MiGs directly to Ukraine—or at least stage them at non-American bases along the way.

The Slovak government had its own good reasons to hesitate. The MiGs were its air force’s only front-line air-superiority jets. Slovakia has ordered new Lockheed Martin F-16s from the United States to replace the aging, ex-Soviet planes—but these F-16s aren’t due to arrive until 2024.

To bridge a possible air-defense gap, the Czech Republic and Poland in August agreed to patrol Slovak air space.  .  .

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/12/12/ukraine-is-finally-getting-more-mig-29s-maybe/
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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1313 on: December 13, 2022, 01:03:54 am »
Ukraine HIMARS'd More Russian HQs and Troop Concentrations

Jake Broe  Dec 12, 2022

The Ukrainian forces have been hitting Russian HQs and troop concentrations hard the last week.  The Ukrainian military has announced they are waiting for the ground to freeze before they continue counter-offensive operations.  Meanwhile Russian soldiers continue to mutiny over poor equipment and training and Russian military bloggers continue to cry about how the Ukrainians are making them look weak.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuwcvrP7ZC8

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1314 on: December 13, 2022, 01:11:17 am »
Ukraine Claims Attack on Key Bridge Outside Putin's Annexed Territory

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-claims-attack-key-bridge-outside-putins-annexed-territory-1766558

Ukrainian mayor taunted Russia following a strike against a bridge used by Russian troops to transport military equipment into controversially annexed territory on Monday.

The strike comes more than nine months after Russian President Vladimir Putin launched the Ukraine "special military operation" in February, hoping for a quick victory but was blunted by Kyiv's spirited defense and bolstered by Western aid. Putin's troops have struggled to achieve substantial goals in Ukraine, turning to recent attacks on Ukrainian civilian infrastructure ahead of winter.

Amid these attacks, Ukraine has recently launched salvos against Melitopol, a city in the Zaporizhzhia oblast, which Russia annexed in September following referendums dismissed as sham elections by the West.

The latest strike targeted a bridge used by Russian soldiers to bring military equipment into the region. Many details about the strike, including if anyone was injured or the type of weapon used, remained unknown on Monday.

More at link.

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1315 on: December 13, 2022, 01:34:36 am »
Please excerpt articles....I noticed a few are very long..
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1316 on: December 13, 2022, 06:43:01 am »
Yes, ma'am.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1317 on: December 13, 2022, 02:14:14 pm »
Zelensky Names Price for Ukraine’s Winter Survival: Seeks $840+ Million in Donations

Simon Kent 13 Dec 2022

President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday put a price on how much is needed for Ukraine to survive the winter, pleading some 800 million euros (U.S.$840+ million) is necessary to help his country survive Russia’s bombing of its civilian infrastructure.

The call comes as Moscow has switched tactics since October when it began airstrikes targeting Ukraine’s energy network, plunging millions into cold and darkness at the onset of winter.

As AFP reports, Zelensky made the request for more cash donations to help the country’s energy sector at an international conference in Paris,  hosted by French President Emmanuel Macron, designed to raise material and money to repair Ukraine’s damaged infrastructure.

“Of course it is a very high amount, but the cost is less than the cost of a potential blackout,” Zelensky told the gathering in the French capital via video link. “I hope that decisions will be made accordingly.”

more
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/12/13/zelensky-names-price-for-ukraines-winter-survival-seeks-840-million-in-donations/
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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1318 on: December 13, 2022, 07:42:17 pm »
Yesterday Zelensky told this choke in a Talkshow. (Not new, but never gets old.)
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1319 on: December 14, 2022, 03:22:01 am »
Royal Marines deployed on ‘high-risk covert operations’ in Ukraine

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/royal-marines-deployed-on-high-risk-covert-operations-in-ukraine-r7b50gv3p?fbclid=IwAR08MmJZrZvvcJtd5Uv1NmLdPaX4uO3cndTvePP_Fr--LDz8q-t1NA7Q8SQ

The Royal Marines have taken part in covert operations in Ukraine, a senior general has admitted for the first time.

Lieutenant General Robert Magowan said that the commandos supported “discreet operations” in a “hugely sensitive environment”. He said that their missions carried “a high level of political and military risk”.

(snip)

Writing in the Globe and Laurel, the official publication of the Royal Marines, he described how 350 marines from 45 Commando were sent to escort diplomats from the British embassy at the beginning of the year when it became clear that Russian troops were massing for an invasion.

The commandos returned to Kyiv in April to re-establish the diplomatic mission, providing protection to critical personnel.

"During both phases, the commandos supported other discreet operations in a hugely sensitive environment and with a high level of political and military risk."

The former Royal Marines commandant general also praised the troops for their training of "hundreds" of Ukrainian military personnel.

Excerpt.

(Sorry for the paywall but this is an interesting admission by the Brits)
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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1320 on: December 16, 2022, 06:17:12 pm »
Kharkiv without power, heating and water after new wave of Russian missile strikes across country

Léonie Chao-Fong; Tom Ambrose and Helen Sullivan  |  Fri 16 Dec 2022 13.02 EST


Here are some of the latest images we have received from the southern Ukrainian city of Kryvyi Rih in Dnipro region, where officials say at least three people were killed by a Russian attack on a residential building.


Rescuers work at the site of a residential building damaged by a Russian missile in Kryvyi Rih, Ukraine. Photograph: Reuters


A woman cries in front of the building which was destroyed by a Russian attack in Kryvyi Rih. Photograph: Evgeniy Maloletka/AP


Rescuers work at the site of a residential building damaged by a Russian missile in Kryvyi Rih. Photograph: Reuters

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/dec/16/russia-ukraine-war-live-ukrainian-officials-warn-of-major-new-russian-offensive-us-senate-approves-800m-in-aid



Putin's barbaric war against Ukrainian civilians continues during this Christmas season.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 06:18:47 pm by Hoodat »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1321 on: December 16, 2022, 06:23:52 pm »
'More than 40 rockets' fired at Kyiv in 'one of the war's most intense attacks so far'

7h ago  |  06:02


Ukraine's capital was attacked with more than 40 rockets this morning, according to a spokesperson for the Kyiv Military Administration.

Mykhailo Shamanov said 37 of these were shot down, while those that got through appear to have hit infrastructure.

Illia Ponomarenko, a defence reporter for the Kyiv Independent, described it as "one of the war's most intense attacks so far".

Ukrainian air defences also shot down 10 missiles over the Dnipropetrovsk region, governor Valentyn Reznichenko said in a separate statement on Telegram.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-russia-rejects-christmas-ceasefire-childrens-torture-chamber-uncovered-in-kherson-12541713?postid=5071560#liveblog-body
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1322 on: December 16, 2022, 10:29:00 pm »
'More than 40 rockets' fired at Kyiv in 'one of the war's most intense attacks so far'

7h ago  |  06:02


Ukraine's capital was attacked with more than 40 rockets this morning, according to a spokesperson for the Kyiv Military Administration.

Mykhailo Shamanov said 37 of these were shot down, while those that got through appear to have hit infrastructure.

Illia Ponomarenko, a defence reporter for the Kyiv Independent, described it as "one of the war's most intense attacks so far".

Ukrainian air defences also shot down 10 missiles over the Dnipropetrovsk region, governor Valentyn Reznichenko said in a separate statement on Telegram.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-russia-rejects-christmas-ceasefire-childrens-torture-chamber-uncovered-in-kherson-12541713?postid=5071560#liveblog-body

In the FWIW dept., Ukraine did not attack anyone. In fact, they gave up nuclear missiles at the end of the cold war and only asked that their territorial integrity be honored. Of course Russia didn't honor anything. It's why Reagan always said, "trust but verify". You don't have to verify something when you're dealing with someone who is trustworthy.

Russia will not only lose this war, but they will destroy themself in the process. I say it can't happen soon enough!
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Offline berdie

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1323 on: December 16, 2022, 10:36:10 pm »
In the FWIW dept., Ukraine did not attack anyone. In fact, they gave up nuclear missiles at the end of the cold war and only asked that their territorial integrity be honored. Of course Russia didn't honor anything. It's why Reagan always said, "trust but verify". You don't have to verify something when you're dealing with someone who is trustworthy.

Russia will not only lose this war, but they will destroy themself in the process. I say it can't happen soon enough!


Your first paragraph it is what is being lost on some.

Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 3
« Reply #1324 on: December 17, 2022, 02:21:32 am »

Your first paragraph it is what is being lost on some.

I know, sometimes we get so locked into a position that no matter what we won't budge. I'm all for Ukraine, but I do recognize they have a history of corruption and while I have a great deal of respect for Zelensky's courage at the start of the invasion I am tempering that as I see him posing on magazine covers and his wife not recognizing her symbolic position.
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home