Hungarian Prime Minister Warns the West Against a Communist Takeover

[sneakypete]

I'll call you on that @sneakypete
I have a pretty deep understanding of the concepts in communism.
And there were times getting raised that I was certainly poor...

But communism never held any promise for me.
Growing up poor also means growing up street-wise.

And while folks may take advantage of all the free stuff in communism,

There IS no "free stuff under Communism,unless you are one of the Politburo. Everybody else works for minimum everything and lives minimum lives.

I doubt entirely that they believe in it.

@roamer_1

I went to Russia the first time just a few months after the official first collapse of Communism,and I can tell you that in two weeks of talking with Russians in Moscow,a group of THE most privileged of the "equals",not one in a hundred ever believed it. One of the common popular jokes was "we pretend to work,and they pretend to pay us." They went along with this because they had no other  options,but did the minimum they had to do to survive.

 

Two things, from a street level view:
It has to be harder on the bottom than it is one rung up... Necessarily, or no one would work.

Not true. Refuse to work,and off you go to a labor camp for live. A place with no tv,no ac,and you live in hut with armed guards to make sure you work during the day.

The typical Soviet citizen/subject seems to have mastered the "do the absolute minimum you need to get by" philosophy,aBd this worked because that was how everyone operated.

Once again,"We pretend to work,and they pretend to pay us."

And like it:

BullBush. They PRETEND to  like it because that is their only option.


Any claim to removing risk also removes profit. In a more social statement:
Remove individualism and you will remove prosperity - And every chance of prosperity.

Santa is bullshit. Nothing is free.
If you don't think the poor understand that, even better than most, then you've another think coming.


None of which has a single thing to do with living under a communist system.

 

[libertybele]

@libertybele

I return to this to soften the blow... I got to thinking this sounded rather accusatory, because in my haste, I over-edited the notion I intended to impart...

The folks you are pointing to are not the poor.
They are the working poor, which is different.

The poor are, and largely have been, protected from the inflation and recession. That is not perfectly true, but I think you will find that both social security payments and welfare payments, to include food stamps have all increased.

Now, again it is not perfectly true - Section 8 housing has been lacking for years... But by and large, the lion's share in participation in those programs include section 8 housing, protected from rent increases.

Those that are feeling the pain right now are not the poor.

@roamer_1  The homeless who have neither shelter or food are not better off than those in other countries. There are those who live in Detroit, MI and Flint, MI who do have slumlord housing but do not have running water or plumbing and they are food deprived.  So I suppose you might consider them better off.  We could go on down the list; Mississippi, Louisiana, etc., many without water, plumbing or electricity.

Certainly it is somewhat easier in a very rural area to be poor and still be able to sustain.  They can pitch a tent in the middle of nowhere, hunt or fish for some food, etc.  In the city, try pitching a tent in a vacant field or an empty piece of property; code enforcement would be on your tail and you'd wind up in jail for vagrancy. Where do they go after they spend time in the slammer?  Out on the streets.  Nope, things aren't a whole lot better for them.

The homeless are homeless period.  No shelter.  No food.  Nothing.  So I don't see that much different.  So, if you are homeless where do they send your supposed food stamps and welfare checks? 

The warning from the Hungarian Prime Minister to us against a communist takeover isn't far fetched.  IMHO we are closing in to realizing that situation. China or Russia with the help of the U.N. -- Joe is giving away precious munitions and drawing down our reserves which has greatly weakened our military's ability to fight and defend our country.  Not to mention all the 'wokeness' as well.

[roamer_1]

None of which has a single thing to do with living under a communist system.

@sneakypete

And I do not disagree with anything you said...
I am not unaware of what living in a communist system is.
But that is not the point.

The point is what they are saying communism is.
What they are selling.

I don't believe for a minute that they (poor people) believe that.
I know I never did. Not for a minute.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1  The homeless who have neither shelter or food are not better off than those in other countries. There are those who live in Detroit, MI and Flint, MI who do have slumlord housing but do not have running water or plumbing and they are food deprived.  So I suppose you might consider them better off.  We could go on down the list; Mississippi, Louisiana, etc., many without water, plumbing or electricity.

I just don't believe that @libertybele
Most of the actual homeless are homeless because they want to be, or because they are so unruly in a drug addled or mentally addled state that they are no longer fit residents and have been rejected by the help that is available.

Even at that, most are on food stamps, because a big reason for going away from actual food stamps to plastic was to prevent them from using the stamps as a form of money to buy drugs.
By far and away, most that you look at are far from starving.

Certainly it is somewhat easier in a very rural area to be poor and still be able to sustain.  They can pitch a tent in the middle of nowhere, hunt or fish for some food, etc. 

No doubt that is true. But subsistence requires action. If you are in the sticks, you are less likely to have a welfare check because there is no delivery, and you are far from a grocery store. You ARE fending for yourself, hunting and fishing and foraging. Or you are dying. Plain and simple.

Welfare folks move to town. Because town is where you can get around to everything on your feet, and town is where all the benefits are.

In the city, try pitching a tent in a vacant field or an empty piece of property; code enforcement would be on your tail and you'd wind up in jail for vagrancy. Where do they go after they spend time in the slammer?  Out on the streets.  Nope, things aren't a whole lot better for them.

That is largely not true, or there would not be massive encampments in nearly every big city.

The homeless are homeless period.  No shelter.  No food.  Nothing.  So I don't see that much different.  So, if you are homeless where do they send your supposed food stamps and welfare checks?

That's what flophouses do. Or neighborhood PO boxes, or relatives. And the whole issue is moot now, since bank deposits are automatic and the food card automatically recharges. That is not an issue. Most of them folks are not skinny. Most of em are well fed. Them that ain't are more likely crack addicts than deprived. 

The most of the problem is not financial. The most of the problem is mental illness and drug addiction. There is MORE help in the cities. Less subsistence.

The warning from the Hungarian Prime Minister to us against a communist takeover isn't far fetched.  IMHO we are closing in to realizing that situation. China or Russia with the help of the U.N. -- Joe is giving away precious munitions and drawing down our reserves which has greatly weakened our military's ability to fight and defend our country.  Not to mention all the 'wokeness' as well.

I agree with all that - That has been evident on its face all the way along.

[libertybele]

This is not the first time a warning has been relayed to Americans about Communism.  Reading this is eerie and most of the issues pointed out we are experiencing. It's not going to be long.  Both parties IMHO have been bought and sabotaged.  Certainly the schools have been liberalized.  Joe has been bought and he is handing our country over to communist and he has weakened our military significantly in order to supposedly help Ukraine - (it isn't our war).  Here we sit. The list goes on.......

MOUNTAIN DEMOCRAT

WE WERE WARNED

In 1959 Nikita Khrushchev, secretary of the Russian Communist Party, delivered the following message before the United Nations in New York: “Your children’s children will live under communism. You Americans are so gullible. No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we will keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you will finally wake up and find you already have communism. We will not have to fight you. We will so weaken your economy until you will fall like ripe fruit into our hands.”

Khrushchev concluded, “The democracy will cease to exist when you take from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”

On Jan. 10, 1963, Congressman Albert Hoskins (D) Florida, read into the Congressional record the “Current Communist Goals” identified in “The Naked Communist,” a book written by Cleon Skusen in 1958, detailing the 45 goals of the Communist Party, some of which include:

Goal 15: Capture one or both of the U.S. political parties.

Goal 17: Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current communist propaganda. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

Goal 20: Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing and policy-making positions.

Goal 21: Get control of key positions in radio, TV and motion pictures.

Goal 22: Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings.”

Goal 24: Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.

Goal 25: Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.

Goal 26: Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as normal, natural, healthy.

Goal 38: Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police by social agencies.

Goal 40: Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

Goal 41: Emphasize the need to raise children away from negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental block and retarding of children to the suppressive influence of parents.

Goal 42: Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition that students and special interest groups should rise up and use (united force) to solve economic, political or special problems.

Goal 43: Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

It is up to all of us to protect our republic and Constitution and I quote Attorney Molly McCann, who said: “We have freedom ultimately because we let bad people take it from us. Freedom is not taken by force only. It is often taken slowly and quietly with out foolish consent that is given by silence.”

https://www.mtdemocrat.com/letters/we-were-warned/

[libertybele]

I just don't believe that @libertybele
Most of the actual homeless are homeless because they want to be, or because they are so unruly in a drug addled or mentally addled state that they are no longer fit residents and have been rejected by the help that is available.

Even at that, most are on food stamps, because a big reason for going away from actual food stamps to plastic was to prevent them from using the stamps as a form of money to buy drugs.
By far and away, most that you look at are far from starving.

No doubt that is true. But subsistence requires action. If you are in the sticks, you are less likely to have a welfare check because there is no delivery, and you are far from a grocery store. You ARE fending for yourself, hunting and fishing and foraging. Or you are dying. Plain and simple.

Welfare folks move to town. Because town is where you can get around to everything on your feet, and town is where all the benefits are.

That is largely not true, or there would not be massive encampments in nearly every big city.

That's what flophouses do. Or neighborhood PO boxes, or relatives. And the whole issue is moot now, since bank deposits are automatic and the food card automatically recharges. That is not an issue. Most of them folks are not skinny. Most of em are well fed. Them that ain't are more likely crack addicts than deprived. 

The most of the problem is not financial. The most of the problem is mental illness and drug addiction. There is MORE help in the cities. Less subsistence.

I agree with all that - That has been evident on its face all the way along.

The stereotypical description of the homeless that you state is true in many cases, but there are people who are working and just can't afford the increase in rent, insurance, taxes, gas, electricity, water, etc.  So, no they're not drug addicts or mentally it.  They have fallen upon hard times.

I used to volunteer at a 'caring center' to help those who needed assistance with food, rent, electric, etc.  I encountered very few who were drug dependent or mentally ill.  I can think of 2 cases and I volunteered for nearly 3 years.  Sure, some lived above their means and got themselves in a bind, some were laid off, some became ill and couldn't work and consequently found themselves homeless.

One of the saddest cases was a woman who had driven over 100 miles with her child to escape an abusive husband.  She was terrified and would not press charges. Because she would not press charges, the women's shelter would not take her. The Salvation Army at the time was full so that option wasn't available. We gave her some blankets and a little food with pop tops.  He had battered her to the point where she lost her hearing in one ear.  Nothing more we could do on our end. At that point her home for her and her child was in a car. Not being able to help bothered me for a very long time.

Lot's of cases  where people fall on hard times and wind up homeless. Yes plenty of drug addicts, alcoholics become homeless, but the stigma that all homeless people are addicts is just plain wrong.

Yes, there is more help in the cities but not everyone can qualify or get into a facility that needs help.  Addiction treatment facilities are NOT free.  So the choice is on the streets or wind up in a gov't mental facility, some spend some time in jail and then are released onto the streets -- still homeless so many resort back to drugs.

It's life I know, but volunteering in that center gave me a whole different perspective on the homeless and those in need.

[roamer_1]

The stereotypical description of the homeless that you state is true in some cases, but there are people who are working and just can't afford the increase in rent, insurance, taxes, gas, electricity, water, etc.  So, no they're not drug addicts or mentally it.  They have fallen upon hard times.

@libertybele

Right - Those I referred to upthread as the working poor. They are not the perpetually homeless. Most of them folks will find equilibrium and begin to rise. I did it three times. It's not the same thing.

I used to volunteer at a 'caring center' to help those who needed assistance with food, rent, electric, etc.  I encountered very few who were drug dependent or mentally ill.  I can think of 2 and I volunteered for nearly 3 years.  Sure, some lived above their means and got themselves in a bind, some were laid off, some became ill and couldn't work and consequently found themselves homeless.

I know my way around a soup kitchen. And I have helped in local food subsidies - Pantries - And I would agree, but not at so high a rate. But many were downtrodden and would rather take the handout than get on welfare - Proud people that I admire. Many working poor that needed some subsidy for a big family, down on their luck. I get it.

Lot's of cases @roamer_1 where people fall on hard times and wind up homeless. Yes plenty of drug addicts, alcoholics become homeless, but the stigma that all homeless people are addicts is just plain wrong.

Again, the stigma belongs to the perpetually homeless.

More help in the cities but not everyone can qualify or get into a facility that needs help.  Addiction treatment facilities are NOT free.  So the choice is on the streets or wind up in a gov't mental facility, some spend some time in jail and then are released onto the streets -- still homeless so many resort back to drugs

Addiction programs are often picked up by federal or state. A guy I know is going through a long term alcohol treatment right now for the second time - And both times picked up by welfare. His first time through was 90 days, and now 120 days or more. all picked up, to include the bus ride and the halfway house.

So it can be done. And IS done, all the time.

Sorry if I sound a bit jaded.

[libertybele]

@roamer_1  Things just aren't good all around and warning shots have been given to Americans about a communist takeover.  I think people are beginning to realize what is going on, but are also busy scrambling to make ends meet to survive and hoping for better times. Then we have the liberals who are just too stupid to see the writing on the wall, or they don't want to see it.

Is it too late to turn this around??? I think it may be.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1  Things just aren't good all around and warning shots have been given to Americans about a communist takeover.  I think people are beginning to realize what is going on, but are also busy scrambling to make ends meet to survive and hoping for better times. Then we have the liberals who are just too stupid to see the writing on the wall, or they don't want to see it.

Is it too late to turn this around??? I think it may be.

Hard to say. They have over 50 years head start.
It's why I will no longer settle for half measures. The only way forward is pure Conservatism.
The ONLY way.