Author Topic: Into the weeds: Here's what's in the Senate Democrats' long-awaited marijuana bill  (Read 749 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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Into the weeds: Here's what's in the Senate Democrats' long-awaited marijuana bill
by Cami Mondeaux, Breaking News Reporter |
 | August 01, 2022 07:00 AM


Senate Democrats unveiled their long-awaited marijuana legalization bill on Thursday, opening the door to future conversations on Capitol Hill about cannabis legalization despite its slim chances of being advanced in Congress.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) released his Cannabis Administration and Opportunity Act, which would decriminalize marijuana possession nationwide and allow states to enact their own laws without federal oversight. The legislation comes more than a year after Schumer proposed a draft of the bill and includes propositions that are backed by both parties.



Here’s what the bill would do:

Decriminalize marijuana and expunge criminal records

Under the bill, anyone with a criminal record related to nonviolent federal marijuana offenses would have his or her record expunged and records sealed within one year of enactment. For those still serving sentences, the legislation would allow them to file for sentence review hearings. After those hearings, courts are instructed to “expunge each arrest, conviction, or adjudication of juvenile delinquency” for the offense, as well as vacate the current sentence.

The U.S. comptroller general would also be instructed to conduct a study examining the demographics for who is most likely to be convicted on federal marijuana charges to be shared with Congress.

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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/heres-what-marijuana-bill-would-do
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Not a word about giving Dispensaries access to the banking system so they can take credit cards (which I'd never use anyway).
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Online Smokin Joe

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Would this question be changed or modified to remove "marijuana" from the text?

(From Form 4473)
Quote
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized
for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside
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Online Killer Clouds

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It's a trap!
Would this question be changed or modified to remove "marijuana" from the text?

(From Form 4473)
They wouldn't have to change the question to remove marijuana if marijuana is legalized federally.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 02:14:29 am by Killer Clouds »

Online Smokin Joe

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They wouldn't have to change the question if marijuana is legalized federally.
All they'd do is remove "unlawful"
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Online Killer Clouds

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All they'd do is remove "unlawful"
They wouldn't need to change anything. If they make marijuana legal anyone 21 or over would be a lawful user of marijuana. I don't know how it is in other states but 8n Kalifornia you have to be 21 to 7se marijuana so anyone under 21 use marijuana would still be an unlawful user.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 01:32:02 pm by Killer Clouds »

Offline DCPatriot

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Not a word about giving Dispensaries access to the banking system so they can take credit cards (which I'd never use anyway).

@Cyber Liberty

Last Christmas, Santa gave me a $100 Visa gift card.

I tried to use it at my dispensary but the reader wouldn't accept it...even though it's essentially 'cash'.

Then a light went off in my head realizing it's to curtail money laundering...or am I mistaken in that?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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@Cyber Liberty

Last Christmas, Santa gave me a $100 Visa gift card.

I tried to use it at my dispensary but the reader wouldn't accept it...even though it's essentially 'cash'.

Then a light went off in my head realizing it's to curtail money laundering...or am I mistaken in that?

As long as it's a Schedule 1 controlled substance, banks cannot legally do point of sale CC transactions.  Been a law in the drug war for a long time.  At least, that has been my understanding why they have a bunch of ATMs in the dispensaries.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Online Smokin Joe

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They wouldn't need to change anything. If they make marijuana legal anyone 21 or over would be a lawful user of marijuana. I don't know how it is in other states but 8n Kalifornia you have to be 21 to 7se marijuana so anyone under 21 use marijuana would still be an unlawful user.
Modify the question thus:
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 02:14:38 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Modify the question thus:
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

No, because it still refers to MJ as a "controlled substance."  Just remove the word "marijuana."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Online Smokin Joe

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No, because it still refers to MJ as a "controlled substance."  Just remove the word "marijuana."
At present, even medical marijuana is 'controlled'. Like it or not, legal or not, this could remain a restriction and disqualifier.

It's no skin off my ass, one way or another, but I don't use it, and it would disqualify me from working on drilling locations, even if legal at present.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 02:32:05 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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At present, even medical marijuana is 'controlled'. Like it or not, legal or not, this could remain a restriction and disqualifier.

It's no skin off my ass, one way or another, but I don't use it, and it would disqualify me from working on drilling locations, even if legal at present.

True in many professions, like tuck driving.  And I think the proposed bill removes MJ from the list of Schedule 1 controlled substances.  It would still, however, be "controlled," like Percocets, just under a different schedule.

You make a good point.

There will likely be lawsuits about companies that do random drug screens of 100% of their employees.  The argument would be, "Why would a company care if a mailroom worker got high a month ago?"  I worked for a large company that did that, but they quietly abandoned it because it turned out to be a huge waste of money ... nobody ever got caught and forced into rehab. 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 02:41:44 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Killer Clouds

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If marijuana is made legal federally nothing would or need to be changed with the 4473 form. As far as private companies go they can have just about whatever requirements of their employees they want to.

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If marijuana is made legal federally nothing would or need to be changed with the 4473 form. As far as private companies go they can have just about whatever requirements of their employees they want to.
If you can't see another avenue to disarm the American public, then your tunnel vision is even more constricted than I had perceived. If the question of legality was removed from the form, and simply left 'user', then it could be made a disqualifier. Just saying.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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If marijuana is made legal federally nothing would or need to be changed with the 4473 form.

MJ is specifically listed on the 4473, so yes it would have to be changed.

Quote
As far as private companies go they can have just about whatever requirements of their employees they want to.

True, for now.  My company did it so they could put a "Drug Free Workplace!" sticker on their advertisements.  Pure optics.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Smokin Joe

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MJ is specifically listed on the 4473, so yes it would have to be changed.

True, for now.  My company did it so they could put a "Drug Free Workplace!" sticker on their advertisements.  Pure optics.
You are leaving out the greatest reason for the claim: Insurance costs. Behind it all, being able to claim a drug free workplace cuts insurance premiums, which can be a substantial expense.

Then, too, there are some jobs you might want people who are clear headed doing.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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You are leaving out the greatest reason for the claim: Insurance costs. Behind it all, being able to claim a drug free workplace cuts insurance premiums, which can be a substantial expense.

Then, too, there are some jobs you might want people who are clear headed doing.

Absolutely!  Like driving trucks and airplanes.  And heavy machinery like construction equipment.  In your case, people assembling drill rigs.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Online catfish1957

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Absolutely!  Like driving trucks and airplanes.  And heavy machinery like construction equipment.  In your case, people assembling drill rigs.

I can think of plenty of others too, like in the medical profession.  Sure don't want my next surgeon tripping on a half dozen edibles.
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Absolutely!  Like driving trucks and airplanes.  And heavy machinery like construction equipment.  In your case, people assembling drill rigs.
Assembling them is hazardous, but operating them (safely) demands vigilance.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Assembling them is hazardous, but operating them (safely) demands vigilance.

Roustabouts won't be the people suing for relief from drug testing requirements because they are protecting their own lives.  It will be people like mail room workers and yes, Geologists who don't operate the dangerous equipment to sue.  I doubt they would win, but it's possible they will try.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Smokin Joe

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Roustabouts won't be the people suing for relief from drug testing requirements because they are protecting their own lives.  It will be people like mail room workers and yes, Geologists who don't operate the dangerous equipment to sue.  I doubt they would win, but it's possible they will try.
Those who sue won't be getting any contracts, and that would be industry wide. Maybe office folks, but nowadays, it isn't the sort of thing you can have much room for error, and an 'error' is often a million dollar (or more) screwup. I just don't see the industry taking that chance when drug testing was credited for severely reducing accidents and other foul-ups. I'm a Geologist, and have had to take pre-employment and random tests.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online catfish1957

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Roustabouts won't be the people suing for relief from drug testing requirements because they are protecting their own lives.  It will be people like mail room workers and yes, Geologists who don't operate the dangerous equipment to sue.  I doubt they would win, but it's possible they will try.

As Safety and Environmental Mgr, I had to administer random (and for cause, or accident) drug testing.

You'd be surprised how rare we'd get positive hits at the plant level.  Not many people were willing to risk blue collar $100K jobs for drugs.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Those who sue won't be getting any contracts, and that would be industry wide. Maybe office folks, but nowadays, it isn't the sort of thing you can have much room for error, and an 'error' is often a million dollar (or more) screwup. I just don't see the industry taking that chance when drug testing was credited for severely reducing accidents and other foul-ups. I'm a Geologist, and have had to take pre-employment and random tests.

It was my company's decision to discontinue the testing because it wasn't cost effective, even though there are dangerous jobs in the wafer fabs.  One can make the case that somebody who consumed MJ a month ago could be a direct cause of them making a typo, but what does it cost to weed out such a person?  And would that even be a case worth considering if someone isn't high when making the typo?

The problem is, there still isn't a widely available test for "Is this person high right now?"  Like a breathalyzer for alcohol. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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It was my company's decision to discontinue the testing because it wasn't cost effective, even though there are dangerous jobs in the wafer fabs.  One can make the case that somebody who consumed MJ a month ago could be a direct cause of them making a typo, but what does it cost to weed out such a person?  And would that even be a case worth considering if someone isn't high when making the typo?

The problem is, there still isn't a widely available test for "Is this person high right now?"  Like a breathalyzer for alcohol.

And that creates a host of problems with legalization and enforcement of things like DUI, because the line which used to be at yes/no is now reduced to subjective observation of the accused impaired driver, which can be shredded by a competent defense attorney. Other contexts may vary, but the old line of present or absent was a clear threshold. Making that line fuzzy will not help matters, just present a gray area that will feed attorneys and cost money.

Even more so, identifying limits to determine what constitutes quantifiable intoxication, as has been done with alcohol (which has its limitations, too, as do the testing methods), becomes a problem in defining when a person is impaired, and to make that even worse, unlike alcohol, where X ounces of N concentration for a given body weight will, generally and predictably yield a given Blood Alcohol Content, making avoiding a DUI technically possible, how do you determine what amount of weed smoked or ingested will yield what concentration of intoxicating cannabanoids?

More problems than it is worth, imho, but I'm neither a user nor a fan of it. Others will disagree, not only about intoxication levels, but about latency and latent effects which seem apparent to non-users--just like the odor of skunk (but that's another story).

It seems odd to me that the same people who bitched mercilessly about the odor of tobacco smoke aren't out up-at-arms about the odor of skunk, but what do I know?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 05:01:32 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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MJ is specifically listed on the 4473, so yes it would have to be changed.

True, for now.  My company did it so they could put a "Drug Free Workplace!" sticker on their advertisements.  Pure optics.
MJ  would not have to be changed off of the 4473. It says UNLAWFUL. If MJ is legalized federally then it would be unlawful for 18yo to 21yo to use it. Anyone over 21yo would be LAWFUL use of MJ. The question on the 4473 remains valid.