Author Topic: 42 Policy Proposals Donald Trump Outlined at America First Summit in D.C.  (Read 3576 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Former President Donald J. Trump laid out 42 policy proposals at the America First Policy Institute (AFPI) summit Tuesday, where he gave his first speech in Washington, DC, since leaving office.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/27/42-policy-proposals-trump-outlined-at-america-first-summit-in-dc/

If smart, the GOP in Congress should adopt these as the new Contract to America.
It might even prod the Dems to come out with their own contract, riddled with social and racial issues.

The contrast would not be starker.  Putting food on the table and keeping a job vs pandering to illegals, trans and criminals.

They would easily translate into huge wins for the GOP.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 07:44:56 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Killer Clouds

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,116
I used to support Trump but after reading those 42 point I won't vote for him again. Hopefully conservatives will have a better candidate.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
Ooh Look! Not a single word about cost cutting and shrinking government.Not a peep.

Looks like another gigantic expensive boondoggle coming up from the 'right'  *****rollingeyes*****

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,235
  • Gender: Male
Ooh Look! Not a single word about cost cutting and shrinking government.Not a peep.

Looks like another gigantic expensive boondoggle coming up from the 'right'  *****rollingeyes*****

If we really believe a bloated federal government and runaway inflation is bad, Trump cannot be the nominee.
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
If we really believe a bloated federal government and runaway inflation is bad, Trump cannot be the nominee.

of course I agree with that... Especially after this list. SOSDD.

Offline Killer Clouds

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,116
If we really believe a bloated federal government and runaway inflation is bad, Trump cannot be the nominee.
I would be much more worried about a police state with no consequences when pigs break the law. Qualified immunity needs to be eliminated and not strengthened more. Pigs and a corrupt justice system get away with enough as it is now.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
I would be much more worried about a police state with no consequences when pigs break the law.

Both the very same thing.
A small government cannot afford a police state.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,320
Reminder:  this was a speech on safey, law and order.  Might be best to save the above criticisms for Trump's speech on economic policy, which will come.

BTW, Trump's speech was so effective, it prompted this response (video):


https://mobile.twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1552086010007265281




« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 11:48:05 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,848
  • Twitter is for Twits
Lots of that pro-police stuff is a little scary,but then I remember the Dim-controlled cities like Seattle,where the police are being paid to either just ride around and not arrest anyone,or to protect the neighborhoods the politicians live in.

Look at Portland,or most of coastal California for examples.

I suspect Chicago belongs on that list,too.

The one thing we can NOT allow is for this situation to get worse than it already is,or anarchy will break out all over the country,and it will be the left that takes over the country until we reach such a state of anarchy that people are begging to government to go "full left-wing fascist".

Most of the posters here I see screaming "I will NEVER vote for Trump because of this!" were never going to vote for him to start with due to their class envy. Trump is a Billionaire,and they hate anybody that has more than they do.

I gotta admit this presentation,with no real details on how or where this will be happeing is doing nothing but feeding red meat to the dogs and helping them convince some people who are "on the line" to not vote for Trump.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Killer Clouds

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,116
Lots of that pro-police stuff is a little scary,but then I remember the Dim-controlled cities like Seattle,where the police are being paid to either just ride around and not arrest anyone,or to protect the neighborhoods the politicians live in.

Look at Portland,or most of coastal California for examples.

I suspect Chicago belongs on that list,too.

The one thing we can NOT allow is for this situation to get worse than it already is,or anarchy will break out all over the country,and it will be the left that takes over the country until we reach such a state of anarchy that people are begging to government to go "full left-wing fascist".

Most of the posters here I see screaming "I will NEVER vote for Trump because of this!" were never going to vote for him to start with due to their class envy. Trump is a Billionaire,and they hate anybody that has more than they do.

I gotta admit this presentation,with no real details on how or where this will be happeing is doing nothing but feeding red meat to the dogs and helping them convince some people who are "on the line" to not vote for Trump.
I will disagree. I was a Trump supporter but not any longer. The crap he wants to do with the pigs is unconstitutional. Stop and Frisk is a 4th amendment violation.  Qualified Immunity is unconstitutional garbage that was made up by a corrupt SCOTUS  to justify pigs breaking the law and violating people's rights with impunity. Pigs should not be able to violate the laws they are swore to uphold. I hope Trump is not the GOP nominee. I won't vote for him. At this point maybe they can recruit DeSantis?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 05:09:49 pm by Killer Clouds »

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Reminder:  this was a speech on safey, law and order.  Might be best to save the above criticisms for Trump's speech on economic policy, which will come.

BTW, Trump's speech was so effective, it prompted this response (video):


https://mobile.twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1552086010007265281
I agree, the Dems do not like what Trump said as he is over the target.  If we can keep them on the defensive, good things will happen to this country, regardless of what a few pessimists say.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
Stop and Frisk is a 4th amendment violation. 

That's right, but it's not in practice. It has to do with the dichotomy presented between real evidence and suspicion of wrong-doing and where 'probable cause' lies on a sliding scale between the two. Many laws lie along that scale... Like loitering laws. Cops have always rousted the ne'er-do-wells, and beefed them out of polite society - And many (me included) would suggest there is MORE of that needed right now, not less.

Quote
Qualified Immunity is unconstitutional garbage that was made up by a corrupt SCOTUS  to justify pigs breaking the law and violating people's rights with impunity.

The other side of that is a law suit for every traffic stop and every action. Qualified immunity is there to keep the courts from being overrun by frivolous suits against the LEOs. EVERY perp is innocent, and EVERY perp has been violated. Just ask them.

Offline Killer Clouds

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,116
That's right, but it's not in practice. It has to do with the dichotomy presented between real evidence and suspicion of wrong-doing and where 'probable cause' lies on a sliding scale between the two. Many laws lie along that scale... Like loitering laws. Cops have always rousted the ne'er-do-wells, and beefed them out of polite society - And many (me included) would suggest there is MORE of that needed right now, not less.

The other side of that is a law suit for every traffic stop and every action. Qualified immunity is there to keep the courts from being overrun by frivolous suits against the LEOs. EVERY perp is innocent, and EVERY perp has been violated. Just ask them.
BS and BS. Stop and Frisk is unconstitutional. PERIOD! Pigs cannot stop, identify and frisk anyone they want to at any time they want to without reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is occurring or is about to occur.
As far as qualified immunity goes it was set as precedent by SCOTUS  and it gives carte blanche for pigs to break the law with impunity. Nobody is above the law even pigs and members of the unjustice system. If pigs wouldn't break the law and violate citizens civil rights 9n a regular basis they wouldn't have to worry about a lawsuit. There also needs to be an outside entity to investigate complaints filed against pigs. When pigs investigate themselves there is never any wrong doing found. The Blueline Mafia protects it's own gang members. Pigs deserve the hate they have earned.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
BS and BS. Stop and Frisk is unconstitutional. PERIOD! Pigs cannot stop, identify and frisk anyone they want to at any time they want to without reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is occurring or is about to occur.


RIGHT. But how is that measured? There's a whole helluva lot of gray area in that statement.

Quote
As far as qualified immunity goes it was set as precedent by SCOTUS  and it gives carte blanche for pigs to break the law with impunity. Nobody is above the law even pigs and members of the unjustice system.

True, but how you defend from countless frivolous lawsuits?

Quote
If pigs wouldn't break the law and violate citizens civil rights 9n a regular basis they wouldn't have to worry about a lawsuit.

That is patently false.

Quote
There also needs to be an outside entity to investigate complaints filed against pigs. When pigs investigate themselves there is never any wrong doing found. The Blueline Mafia protects it's own gang members. Pigs deserve the hate they have earned.

THERE IS. IA generally reports directly to the DA, not to the rank and file, specifically for that reason.

Look, I get it. I am a redneck, A step or two above trailer trash. And what the rednecks call a good ol boy... Which means I got a little loud in my yoot, and tore down a bar or two. And as befits my kind, I love fast cars, big 4 wheel drives, and whence they came from... I have hauled a load or two.

To say that I was a frequent flyer with the LEOs might be a stretch, but we all knew each other by name. Never made it to the big house (but for the grace of God), but I spent my time in County.

So I have a love-hate thing going with the cops. I get it. And I will always lean heavy toward the holler, and know what the cops will never know there. I don't want to, but I could easily slip over that line and live on the other side of it... I know where that is.

But with that comes a pretty fair grip on the professionalism of cops. Sure there's a****** cops. There's a*******s everywhere. But by and large, I had it coming. And by and large, I have been treated reasonably. Even when force was applied (which was more than once). Even when being rousted. Purposefully rousted - which certainly IS a violation. But I get why.

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,889
BS and BS. Stop and Frisk is unconstitutional. PERIOD! Pigs cannot stop, identify and frisk anyone they want to at any time they want to without reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is occurring or is about to occur.
As far as qualified immunity goes it was set as precedent by SCOTUS  and it gives carte blanche for pigs to break the law with impunity. Nobody is above the law even pigs and members of the unjustice system. If pigs wouldn't break the law and violate citizens civil rights 9n a regular basis they wouldn't have to worry about a lawsuit. There also needs to be an outside entity to investigate complaints filed against pigs. When pigs investigate themselves there is never any wrong doing found. The Blueline Mafia protects it's own gang members. Pigs deserve the hate they have earned.

What cops can do as a practical matter, and what they can do as a theoretical legal matter are two different things.

Assume stop and frisk is per-se unconstitutional; so what?  That only matters if (a) one is in front of an appellate court arguing that one's conviction should be thrown out because of tainted evidence, or (b) one is in civil court suing under section 1983 for a violation of one's constitutional rights.

Until such time, a cop will do what he or she can get away with - i.e., that which will not result in them being disciplined by their supervisor(s) - without regard to whether the action is technically unconstitutional.

With respect to item (a) above - whether evidence gets excluded at the trial level will generally depend on the digestion of the trial judge, and quite honestly, many trial judges are perfectly happy to deny a defense motion to exclude evidence and leave it to the appeals courts to sort it out - which for the defendant means having to go through an entire trial and suffer a guilty verdict before one gets a shot at an appeal.  Not a very appealing proposition, if one will pardon the pun.

With respect to item (b) above - good luck finding an attorney who will take the case if all it was was a stop and frisk that did not result in a criminal conviction.  Litigation costs money, and the damages from a simple stop and frisk are likely to be considered minimal - so only nominal damages and, maybe, whatever the court considers to be one's "reasonable" attorney's fees.  Some bottom-feeding civil lawyers can make a go of it on margins of scale with that sort of civil rights litigation, but most won't because there are more lucrative cases to be had.  So, again, not a very appealing option.

Finally, as far as getting the evidence thrown out:  only the greenest, most brain-dead cops cannot come up with a post-hoc rationalization that establishes an articulable suspicion for stop-and-frisk, and so it's highly unlikely that the evidence will be thrown out as the fruit of the poisonous tree.

Offline Killer Clouds

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,116
What cops can do as a practical matter, and what they can do as a theoretical legal matter are two different things.

Assume stop and frisk is per-se unconstitutional; so what?  That only matters if (a) one is in front of an appellate court arguing that one's conviction should be thrown out because of tainted evidence, or (b) one is in civil court suing under section 1983 for a violation of one's constitutional rights.

Until such time, a cop will do what he or she can get away with - i.e., that which will not result in them being disciplined by their supervisor(s) - without regard to whether the action is technically unconstitutional.

With respect to item (a) above - whether evidence gets excluded at the trial level will generally depend on the digestion of the trial judge, and quite honestly, many trial judges are perfectly happy to deny a defense motion to exclude evidence and leave it to the appeals courts to sort it out - which for the defendant means having to go through an entire trial and suffer a guilty verdict before one gets a shot at an appeal.  Not a very appealing proposition, if one will pardon the pun.

With respect to item (b) above - good luck finding an attorney who will take the case if all it was was a stop and frisk that did not result in a criminal conviction.  Litigation costs money, and the damages from a simple stop and frisk are likely to be considered minimal - so only nominal damages and, maybe, whatever the court considers to be one's "reasonable" attorney's fees.  Some bottom-feeding civil lawyers can make a go of it on margins of scale with that sort of civil rights litigation, but most won't because there are more lucrative cases to be had.  So, again, not a very appealing option.

Finally, as far as getting the evidence thrown out:  only the greenest, most brain-dead cops cannot come up with a post-hoc rationalization that establishes an articulable suspicion for stop-and-frisk, and so it's highly unlikely that the evidence will be thrown out as the fruit of the poisonous tree.
There have already been many SCOTUS  cases that say you are wrong. There are also many cases where people have been illegally detained, which is what a stop and frisk is, that have filed lawsuits themselves and have won thousands of dollars.  That is one thing that is not covered by qualified immunity. When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. When you're a pig everyone looks like a criminal. Pigs have the same RIGHTS as every other citizen but some reason the think they have rights above and beyond that. Pigs do not have the RIGHT or authority to violate a citizen's civil right and it has been determined by SCOTUS  that Stop and Frisk is a 4th amendment violation. And yes there have been many cases thrown out and victims of over zealous pigs awarded thousands of dollars in lawsuits because they didn't have legimate probable cause for an arrest. The biggest problem with that is that the individual pigs are not held accountable by their superiors that condone the illegal behavior and the lawsuits are settled with taxpayer money. Until Pigs that are sworn to uphold the law and the Constitution are held individually liable for breaking the law and violating their oath nothing will change. It's bad enough as it is now and what Trump is talking about will make a police state much worse. Pigs in general are cowards and most of them don't deserve to have the jobs they do.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,867
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
I used to support Trump but after reading those 42 point I won't vote for him again. Hopefully conservatives will have a better candidate.

After reading it, I have to agree there are a lot of poison pills in there. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Killer Clouds

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,116
After reading it, I have to agree there are a lot of poison pills in there.
Thank you. At least I'm not the only one.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
There have already been many SCOTUS  cases that say you are wrong. There are also many cases where people have been illegally detained, which is what a stop and frisk is, that have filed lawsuits themselves and have won thousands of dollars.  That is one thing that is not covered by qualified immunity. When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. When you're a pig everyone looks like a criminal. Pigs have the same RIGHTS as every other citizen but some reason the think they have rights above and beyond that. Pigs do not have the RIGHT or authority to violate a citizen's civil right and it has been determined by SCOTUS  that Stop and Frisk is a 4th amendment violation. And yes there have been many cases thrown out and victims of over zealous pigs awarded thousands of dollars in lawsuits because they didn't have legimate probable cause for an arrest. The biggest problem with that is that the individual pigs are not held accountable by their superiors that condone the illegal behavior and the lawsuits are settled with taxpayer money. Until Pigs that are sworn to uphold the law and the Constitution are held individually liable for breaking the law and violating their oath nothing will change. It's bad enough as it is now and what Trump is talking about will make a police state much worse. Pigs in general are cowards and most of them don't deserve to have the jobs they do.

This is largely nonsense. OF  COURSE there are many court cases. EVERY criminal with a free state provided lawyer is going to attack the arrest, trying for a skate. It might even be the most typical way of gaming the system. and it is effective if you happen to pull a bleeding heart liberal for a judge - Which there is a pretty good chance of that almost everywhere.


By the same token, I hear you. I stood hard against cops doing sobriety checks... basically road blocks where you were all but forced to cooperate. Denying them invariably resulted in getting pulled over five minutes later, and being forced to comply by another officer anyway, and your DL could be suspended for non-compliance.

Well I said F*** O**... Get a warrant.... And drove off. I knew they would send a cruiser, so I avoided that, and went straight to the hospital, and paid for a full tox blood panel. I do believe the resulting kerfluffle stopped them cold from doing that sort of thing anymore.

CERTAINLY the same thing you are talking about, in spades.

But totally different than a cop rousting a suspicious looking guy among the beautiful people. Totally different than a cop rousting a corner dealer that they KNOW is dealing, but can't prove it.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
After reading it, I have to agree there are a lot of poison pills in there.

Damn straight. All Big Fed solutions... Same as I have been bawling about all the way along.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,867
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Damn straight. All Big Fed solutions... Same as I have been bawling about all the way along.

It has the feel of "more of the same."   9999hair out0000
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,889
There have already been many SCOTUS  cases that say you are wrong. There are also many cases where people have been illegally detained, which is what a stop and frisk is, that have filed lawsuits themselves and have won thousands of dollars.  That is one thing that is not covered by qualified immunity. When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. When you're a pig everyone looks like a criminal. Pigs have the same RIGHTS as every other citizen but some reason the think they have rights above and beyond that. Pigs do not have the RIGHT or authority to violate a citizen's civil right and it has been determined by SCOTUS  that Stop and Frisk is a 4th amendment violation. And yes there have been many cases thrown out and victims of over zealous pigs awarded thousands of dollars in lawsuits because they didn't have legimate probable cause for an arrest. The biggest problem with that is that the individual pigs are not held accountable by their superiors that condone the illegal behavior and the lawsuits are settled with taxpayer money. Until Pigs that are sworn to uphold the law and the Constitution are held individually liable for breaking the law and violating their oath nothing will change. It's bad enough as it is now and what Trump is talking about will make a police state much worse. Pigs in general are cowards and most of them don't deserve to have the jobs they do.


:silly:

Like I said, there is a big gulf between what a cop can get away with as a practical matter, and what they are supposed to do as a matter of technical legal theory.

Some people might like to think that all legal proceedings are handled as full-on law school discussions, with all the legal precepts discussed in full, and the legal conclusions drawn therefrom conscientiously applied.  That isn't how it works in the real world.

Articulable suspicion and probable cause, for example, really only matter once you get to an appellate hearing, and to do that, you have to go through the entire process of an arrest, an arraignment, and a trial first.  You have to make a motion at or before trial to exclude evidence that you believe was unconstitutionally obtained, and if the judge rules against you, then you have to complete the entire trial before you get to raise the issue.  Some trial judges will consider the issue carefully, particularly if it is a high-profile case; but if it's just an ordinary run-of-the-mill case, then the trial judge is most likely going to simply deny the defense motion and let the case proceed to trial.  There are two reasons for this:  (1) from the judge's perspective, it's a time-saving technique - if the judge grants the defense motion and dismisses the case, and that grant is overturned on appeal by the government, then everything has to be done all over again to prepare for trial; if the judge simply denies the defense motion and goes ahead and completes the trial that has already been prepared for, then there's an economy of time, and if the denial is reversed on appeal, and the case sent back for further proceedings, then all the judge has to do is to dismiss the case; on the other hand, if the appeal is denied, then that's the end of the matter and, again, the trial judge doesn't need to do anything further.  (2) many criminal trial judges are ex-cops or ex-LEO themselves, or otherwise got into the business because they wanted to have justice done, and they are often inclined to rule against the defendant as a matter of course whenever the matter is subject to the judge's discretion.

So, as I said at the beginning, articulable suspicion and probable cause really only matter if a defendant has the ability to go through a trial and get to an appeals court.

That's reality, Jack, whether we like it or not.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,867
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵

Like I said, there is a big gulf between what a cop can get away with as a practical matter, and what they are supposed to do as a matter of technical legal theory.


Truer words were never spoken on this subject.  Cops are usually given a pretty wide latitude on the day to day activities because it's damned dangerous.  They just need to know what their superiors will cover their butts for.

Legal theories can be worked out at a more leisurely pace.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289

:silly:

Like I said, there is a big gulf between what a cop can get away with as a practical matter, and what they are supposed to do as a matter of technical legal theory.

Some people might like to think that all legal proceedings are handled as full-on law school discussions, with all the legal precepts discussed in full, and the legal conclusions drawn therefrom conscientiously applied.  That isn't how it works in the real world.

Nor how it SHOULD. Thugs are quite often kept at bay by big beat cops with night sticks, and who know how to use them.

At this point, Portland as an example, the only way Portland gets fixed is with hard ass bull cops willing to kick ass and take names, and a DA willing to look the other way.

And once order is restored, at the local level, them cops have to be there yet. I never kept to the straight and narrow. And what brought me back was not shrinks and liberal bleeding hearts.


Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
It has the feel of "more of the same."   9999hair out0000

YEP... And folks are gonna eat it up like pudding.