Author Topic: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge  (Read 1766 times)

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
Newsweek, Jul 16, 2022

Russia is claiming two significant victories in its ongoing sanctions war with the West, after Canada agreed to waive restrictions on a key gas pipeline component and the European Union clarified its position on the standoff over the Kaliningrad exclave.

[...]

Last weekend brought the Canadian-German decision—supported by the U.S. in a statement issued on Monday—to waive sanctions and release a turbine needed for the Nord Stream 1 gas pipeline. The two-year waiver was described by President Volodymyr Zelensky as "weakness" and "absolutely unacceptable."

Merezhko—a member of Zelensky's Servant of the People party—shared a similar view from Kyiv. "To us it's a dangerous political precedent," he explained. "I'm also concerned that with autumn and winter coming some European countries might display more interest in finding a compromise with Russia regarding supply of Russian gas and oil."

Some Russian sympathizers in Europe have long been skeptical of sanctions. This week, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban said the EU had "shot itself in the lungs" via its measures on Moscow.  Other leaders might feel emboldened to voice similar criticisms as the economic situation worsens across the continent.

Moscow is also claiming a win this week over Kaliningrad—Russia's European exclave wedged between Lithuania and the Baltic Sea. Lithuania recently restricted the road and rail transit of certain goods from Belarus and Russia to Kaliningrad in line with EU sanctions.

But following Russian threats and cyber attacks, the European Commission clarified this week that sanctioned Russian goods—excluding military, dual-use, and technology products—should not be stopped from traveling by rail. The Commission was reportedly under pressure from Germany to deliver this de-escalatory interpretation of EU sanctions.


More:  https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-fears-western-capitulation-russia-cracks-emerge-1725028 

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2022, 04:10:53 pm »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2022, 04:17:51 pm »
Is it rational to ask people to freeze or starve over the latest of dozens of border revisions in The Ukraine over the past centuries? [The Ukraine means The Borderland in local languages.]

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2022, 04:33:05 pm »
Germany, France, and UK all have relatively better health in their economies than the U.S.

Ukraine is 1000's of miles from us.   100's of miles from them.

Why are we doing most of the subsidizing of this matter, and not them?

That's not a pro-Russia stance.  That's a pro-USA one.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2022, 04:37:58 pm »
Germany, France, and UK all have relatively better health in their economies than the U.S.

Ukraine is 1000's of miles from us.   100's of miles from them.

Why are we doing most of the subsidizing of this matter, and not them?

That's not a pro-Russia stance.  That's a pro-USA one.

 :thumbsup:


Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2022, 05:14:48 pm »
Germany, France, and UK all have relatively better health in their economies than the U.S.

Ukraine is 1000's of miles from us.   100's of miles from them.

Why are we doing most of the subsidizing of this matter, and not them?

That's not a pro-Russia stance.  That's a pro-USA one.

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Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2022, 06:07:44 pm »
Biden/Congress are all fanatics about supporting Ukraine, to quote, "As much as it costs, for as long as it takes."

This is NOT a normal or a 'rational' decision. Theoretically, they are allegedly supporting 'American interests'. I doubt it. I think they are acting in their own self-interests. That stupid, "To prevent the spread of Communism!" mantra, died in Vietnam. There is something in Ukraine which the wealthy and the politicians are desperate to protect. And they are willing to print and spend as many of OUR dollars as it takes to do that. No doubt America troops are already involved there in Black Ops with fake names and fake IDs. It seems to be only a matter of time until Biden gets us fully engaged with the full support of Congress. Why? Especially with Biden saying things like, "We are a nation at war!"

Europe is not stupid. They can see and hear plainly that Washington D.C. is willing to become an economic Kamikaze, willing to do and sacrifice everything to 'SAVE UKRAINE!' at any costs! So why should they get involved? Why should they even worry about it? When America has saddled up Ukraine on their own back, even at the risk of nuclear war.

What in the world could possibly be so goddam important to all the American politicians on both sides? We will likely never know. We can only hope that the midterm transformation will bring more reasonable people, less corrupted people, into power.

There is more to this war than we will ever know.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2022, 06:29:42 pm »
Biden/Congress are all fanatics about supporting Ukraine, to quote, "As much as it costs, for as long as it takes."

This is NOT a normal or a 'rational' decision. Theoretically, they are allegedly supporting 'American interests'. I doubt it. I think they are acting in their own self-interests. That stupid, "To prevent the spread of Communism!" mantra, died in Vietnam. There is something in Ukraine which the wealthy and the politicians are desperate to protect. And they are willing to print and spend as many of OUR dollars as it takes to do that. No doubt America troops are already involved there in Black Ops with fake names and fake IDs. It seems to be only a matter of time until Biden gets us fully engaged with the full support of Congress. Why? Especially with Biden saying things like, "We are a nation at war!"

Europe is not stupid. They can see and hear plainly that Washington D.C. is willing to become an economic Kamikaze, willing to do and sacrifice everything to 'SAVE UKRAINE!' at any costs! So why should they get involved? Why should they even worry about it? When America has saddled up Ukraine on their own back, even at the risk of nuclear war.

What in the world could possibly be so goddam important to all the American politicians on both sides? We will likely never know. We can only hope that the midterm transformation will bring more reasonable people, less corrupted people, into power.

There is more to this war than we will ever know.

Agreed. Personally I believe that Joe and Hunter are making a small fortune off of this war and even at that, I think that there's more to the story.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2022, 03:33:04 am »
Is it rational to ask people to freeze or starve over the latest of dozens of border revisions in The Ukraine over the past centuries? [The Ukraine means The Borderland in local languages.]
Just take the US back three hundred years. Centuries? Get real.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2022, 01:11:16 pm »
Mykhailo Fedorov
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2022, 06:15:17 pm »
Just take the US back three hundred years. Centuries? Get real.

Take a peek at how many times the borders have changed in The Ukraine -----it's not called "The Borderland" for no reason @Smokin Joe

But, by all means let's bankrupt, starve, freeze and nuke the world over this latest shooting match in the Borderland.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2022, 06:51:17 pm »
Take a peek at how many times the borders have changed in The Ukraine -----it's not called "The Borderland" for no reason @Smokin Joe

But, by all means let's bankrupt, starve, freeze and nuke the world over this latest shooting match in the Borderland.
Look at how our borders have changed in the last 300 years.  :shrug:
We haven't had the European see-saw over one line, we've had a bunch of radical, generally expansionist changes, fairly stable since 1867. How nice that it has only gone one direction so far. Europe, on the other hand has had different tribes exerting dominance militarily over patches of land for some time.

Bankrupt?
The world is bankrupt, in more ways than one.
Last year's dollar bill is the new 89 cent piece. The only reason any 'money' is accepted is because everyone is sitting on some and doesn't want to be broke.

Starving?

It's being engineered anyway. For the planet an' all that.

Freezing?

The GLOBAL attack on traditional fuels has brought us here, despite the efforts of folks like me who at least got to see us energy self-sufficient once in a 40+ year (and counting) career finding and helping develop such resources.

Nuclear weapons being used is still optional, but if Tehran doesn't have them yet, they will on short order. Russia? Meh. Watch what the other hand is doing, it's China on a crash program to develop that strategic capability, and when the time comes, it will show, while Milley is on the phone being told to ignore the incoming, it's just a test. Remember they couldn't get a satellite into orbit until the Loral deal. (Thank You, Mr. Clinton--or did Hillary broker that one?)

In the meantime, the Russians are stealing the Ukraine's wheat AGAIN, flattening part of Eastern Europe, AGAIN, committing other atrocities, AGAIN, and the leaders of the 'free' world are supposed to just look the other way?

All of these are self-inflicted wounds.
With a stroke of the pen, the current Administration could reverse the policies which have led to an energy shortage here, and with that change in our situation, the global shortage would be relaxed, as would inflation, as would the nonsensical hardships on farming, and there could be enough for everyone, even if that isn't as profitable as cataclysm, and does not present the opportunities for totalitarianism.

Current environmental policy is making farming harder here, and impossible in other places (Protests in Holland are rooted in this). Add to that shortages which will exist because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, theft of grain and destruction of other grain stocks, making that loot worth even more, should any nation accept the shipments (which they eventually will, if Russia is not forced by defeat to relinquish them, just because of the instability caused by desperate and starving populations--ask Louis XVI). 

This is all orchestrated on a global level, but not fighting aggression is giving it a stamp of approval.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2022, 08:34:32 pm »
Look at how our borders have changed in the last 300 years.  :shrug:


Not the same thing @Smokin Joe  Europe's national borders have changed hands as spoils of war, ransom for peace and royal bartering throughout its long history.  It is what Europe does ------ and today the most unsettled region just happens to be in the East.

Europe is a bloodthirsty land whose inhabitants are inbred for war ----- everyone has an ax to grind with the outcome of some battle or treaty to resettle.  It is simply who they are.

That we continue to try and hitch our star to their backwards wagon is mind-boggling.


Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2022, 08:50:56 pm »
Not the same thing @Smokin Joe  Europe's national borders have changed hands as spoils of war, ransom for peace and royal bartering throughout its long history.  It is what Europe does ------ and today the most unsettled region just happens to be in the East.

Europe is a bloodthirsty land whose inhabitants are inbred for war ----- everyone has an ax to grind with the outcome of some battle or treaty to resettle.  It is simply who they are.

That we continue to try and hitch our star to their backwards wagon is mind-boggling.
None is without sin...

How have America's lands changed shape if not for spoils of war, ransom for peace and royal bartering (treaties with natives) throughout its history.
I grew up in a State occupied for the duration of war, it's peoples subjugated for that duration and even forced to rewrite its Constitution before being set "free".

Don't play for me how bloody holy we are in our past, It is our future which will decide that score.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2022, 09:26:25 pm »
None is without sin...

How have America's lands changed shape if not for spoils of war, ransom for peace and royal bartering (treaties with natives) throughout its history.
I grew up in a State occupied for the duration of war, it's peoples subjugated for that duration and even forced to rewrite its Constitution before being set "free".

Don't play for me how bloody holy we are in our past, It is our future which will decide that score.

To elevate Europe, you must demean the United States.  I think there's something dreadfully wrong with this forumla.

We owe Europe, including The Ukraine, nothing. Hopefully the next generations of patriots will embrace this truth and end the Eurocentric knee-jerk US foreign policy we've suffered from for too long.

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2022, 09:36:15 pm »
Just how much blood and treasure are we supposed to give?
The Republic is lost.

Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2022, 10:29:58 pm »
Just how much blood and treasure are we supposed to give?

Well considering we're giving away our country by allowing ILLEGALS in by the millions, I'd say we are in more trouble than people realize and continuing to give billions to Ukraine is just another nail on our coffin.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2022, 06:23:57 pm »
Rand Paul
@RandPaul
·48m

I hate to say I told you so but I told you so. I held up aid because:

1. We shouldn’t be spending the $

2. If congress did approve it, a meticulous investigator would need to oversee YOUR $ being spent in Ukraine at a time when Americans can’t even afford gas or groceries
__________________________________________________________

NPR
@NPR
· Jul 21

Since the start of the war with Russia, the Biden administration has mostly ignored Ukraine’s corruption history. Now, questions have resurfaced about its suitability as a recipient of massive infusions of aid. https://n.pr/3yVIuU3

 pointing-down



« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 06:28:39 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2022, 06:27:25 pm »
Corruption concerns involving Ukraine are revived as the war with Russia drags on
NPR,  Jul 20, 2022, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's dismissal of senior officials is casting an inconvenient light on an issue that the Biden administration has largely ignored since the outbreak of war with Russia: Ukraine's history of rampant corruption and shaky governance.

As it presses ahead with providing tens of billions of dollars in military, economic and direct financial support aid to Ukraine and encourages its allies to do the same, the Biden administration is now once again grappling with longstanding worries about Ukraine's suitability as a recipient of massive infusions of American aid.


https://www.npr.org/2022/07/20/1112414884/corruption-concerns-involving-ukraine-are-revived-as-the-war-with-russia-drags-o?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=twitter.com

Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2022, 06:33:54 pm »
Rand Paul
@RandPaul
·48m

I hate to say I told you so but I told you so. I held up aid because:

1. We shouldn’t be spending the $

2. If congress did approve it, a meticulous investigator would need to oversee YOUR $ being spent in Ukraine at a time when Americans can’t even afford gas or groceries
__________________________________________________________

NPR
@NPR
· Jul 21

Since the start of the war with Russia, the Biden administration has mostly ignored Ukraine’s corruption history. Now, questions have resurfaced about its suitability as a recipient of massive infusions of aid. https://n.pr/3yVIuU3

 pointing-down

Certainly an investigation and accounting for where all the billions are going; but unfortunately it would be the DEMS investigating themselves.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.