Sweden joining Finland in Nato membership bid

[sneakypete]

Seriously can anyone give me a rational explanation on why Turkey is in NATO in the first place.

@verga


I am no expert,or even a knowledgeable amateur,but MY best and only guess is that during the cold war we needed the CIA listening stations that Turkey allowed us to install on their borders. We,and no one else,had the sophisticated electronic monitoring methods of today back then,and we needed them to help keep track of what the Soviets were up to.

There may well have been other reasons too,but I know NOTHING on a personal level about everything we were doing in Turkey,and am unwilling to speculate as to what they may have been.

[Kamaji]

@verga


I am no expert,or even a knowledgeable amateur,but MY best and only guess is that during the cold war we needed the CIA listening stations that Turkey allowed us to install on their borders. We,and no one else,had the sophisticated electronic monitoring methods of today back then,and we needed them to help keep track of what the Soviets were up to.

There may well have been other reasons too,but I know NOTHING on a personal level about everything we were doing in Turkey,and am unwilling to speculate as to what they may have been.

Turkey also controls the Bosphorus straits, and so having them in NATO would have provided NATO with additional leverage over closing off the Black Sea.

[sneakypete]

I'm still waiting for one on why we're in NATO.   

@Right_in_Virginia

Because we happen to share the planet with the rest of the world,and a united force is MUCH harder to face than a dozen or more isolated states

I would have guessed that a scardey-cat like you would understand that.

[catfish1957]

@Right_in_Virginia

Because we happen to share the planet with the rest of the world,and a united force is MUCH harder to face than a dozen or more isolated states

Ever heard of the EU?

[sneakypete]

I appreciate all the history given. I didn't know this.

But, if Turkey is in control of the Black Sea and Russia is trying to take control, does that create a problem? And by extension, NATO and the US?

@berdie

I may be wrong about this,but I think the Russian "wings" have been clipped now,and the best part about it is they did this to themselves.

[sneakypete]

Turkey controls access to the Black Sea.  Even if Russia controls all of the Black Sea ports, they have to pass through the Bosporus strait (and then Suez or Gibraltar) to get to the open ocean.  Turkey gets to decide what ships get in or out.  If Turkey allies itself with Russia, they can cut off Western access to Ukrainian, Romanian, Bulgarian ports.  Right now, they are blocking Russia from reinforcing its Black Sea fleet.

@Hoodat

Thanks! I had no clue about any of that before your post. Makes sense,too.

[sneakypete]

Joining this thread late, but as I have said on many other threads.....

Creation of the EU, pretty has much made NATO unnecessary.  The EU in terms of GDP, and potential is competitive with the U.S., and based on our recent economic mis-steps, actually has a better economic future.

Let them militarize, and deal with threats from the east. We have our own problems, with most of them an actual invasion of our southern border.

@catfish1957

Ahhh,but what you are missing is that the US NEEDS to remain in NATO in order to have SOME influence on not only world peace,but also word-wide economic happenings.

We do NOT live in an isolationist world. That ended at roughly the same time WW-1 ended. OR,truth to tell,BEFORE WW-1 even began. Hitler got away with invading smaller countries because their was no one to stand up for those countries and unite with them.

The old "When they came for my Jewish neighbor I didn't speak up because I wasn't Jewish" thing.

[catfish1957]

@catfish1957

Ahhh,but what you are missing is that the US NEEDS to remain in NATO in order to have SOME influence on not only world peace,but also word-wide economic happenings.

We do NOT live in an isolationist world. That ended at roughly the same time WW-1 ended. OR,truth to tell,BEFORE WW-1 even began. Hitler got away with invading smaller countries because their was no one to stand up for those countries and unite with them.

The old "When they came for my Jewish neighbor I didn't speak up because I wasn't Jewish" thing.

What you state makes perfect sense if we functioned as an equal particpant, instead as the financial underwriter and controlling the strings.  This has never been the U.S.'s intent, and I doubt it will ever be, with the string of idiots we have had in there for decades.  DJT had the right idea.  If he is re-elected I hope he follows through.

[sneakypete]

What you state makes perfect sense if we functioned as an equal particpant

@catfish1957

Such a thing ONLY exists in a fictional world. In the REAL WORLD,one nation or another WILL dominate.

I prefer it be us.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

Because we happen to share the planet with the rest of the world,and a united force is MUCH harder to face than a dozen or more isolated states

I would have guessed that a scardey-cat like you would understand that.

Not a good enough reason @sneakypete   ---- Not any more. The world is more than Europe and its obession with continuing to fight WWII.  Let the European Union take care of itself.

We can no longer afford --- on any level --- to revolve around them.

[verga]

Not a good enough reason @sneakypete   ---- Not any more. The world is more than Europe and its obession with continuing to fight WWII.  Let the European Union take care of itself.

We can no longer afford --- on any level --- to revolve around them.

Especially since they were notr ponying up (hardly) any money (for years) for their own defense.
We are not nor should we ever be the worlds pocketbook, or police department.

[catfish1957]

Especially since they were notr ponying up (hardly) any money (for years) for their own defense.
We are not nor should we ever be the worlds pocketbook, or police department.

And look at the economic numbers.  Cumatively, the EU isn't too far behind us in GDP, and ARE better than us overall financially.

Time to let the EU take care of itself.

[catfish1957]

@catfish1957

Such a thing ONLY exists in a fictional world. In the REAL WORLD,one nation or another WILL dominate.

I prefer it be us.

Sorry, we don't have the money we used to have to play world police.  And when we did,  look at what it got us.

[sneakypete]

And look at the economic numbers.  Cumatively, the EU isn't too far behind us in GDP, and ARE better than us overall financially.

@catfish1957

Given the rampant socialism in addition to the MASSIVE Muslim immigration into Europe,I seriously doubt that.

Time to let the EU take care of itself.

Isolation has NEVER worked in the past,and it will not work now unless your goal is national bankruptcy.

[sneakypete]

Sorry, we don't have the money we used to have to play world police.  And when we did,  look at what it got us.

@catfish1957

"None are so blind........."

[verga]

@catfish1957

"None are so blind........."

We were derided all over the world for our actions in Korea, The Dominican Republic, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Grenada, Kuwait, Afghanistan. Thousands of our service people exposed to God knows what chemicals in Vietnam and the Middle east and our Government is in denial and refusing to give them compensation.

[sneakypete]

We were derided all over the world for our actions in Korea, The Dominican Republic, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Grenada, Kuwait, Afghanistan. Thousands of our service people exposed to God knows what chemicals in Vietnam and the Middle east and our Government is in denial and refusing to give them compensation.

@verga

Really? I am an Agent Orange vet who was medi-evaced from VN due to Agent Orange symptoms,and have been receiving disability payments from the VA ever since.

Granted,it started at some amount less than 50 bucks and this kept me from receiving unemployment benefits due to "being unable to work",but I eventually started receiving 100 percent disability payments.

I understand things are MUCH better these days for vets being forced out of uniform due to physical problems related to their service.

BTW,my mother's first husband was a WW-1 vet. Even though he was a cook,he ended up being medically retired by the army due to mustard gas poisoning during the war. I don't know how much money he received,but it couldn't have been much in 1918. I suspect at some later date he started receiving VA benefits after the VA was created.

I didn't meet him until I was a young boy in the early 1950's,but he was pulling in enough to get by at that time. A local farmer gave him a shack to live in and enough land for him to plant things like watermelons and cantaloupes to sell to passing tourists.

No way was he getting what he deserved,though. IIRC,he lost one eye due to the poisoning,and his whole face was horribly burnt. I suppose his torso was also,but never saw him without a shirt and pants. I do know he was very scary looking to me as a young boy.

[verga]

@verga

Really? I am an Agent Orange vet who was medi-evaced from VN due to Agent Orange symptoms,and have been receiving disability payments from the VA ever since.

Granted,it started at some amount less than 50 bucks and this kept me from receiving unemployment benefits due to "being unable to work",but I eventually started receiving 100 percent disability payments.

I understand things are MUCH better these days for vets being forced out of uniform due to physical problems related to their service.

BTW,my mother's first husband was a WW-1 vet. Even though he was a cook,he ended up being medically retired by the army due to mustard gas poisoning during the war. I don't know how much money he received,but it couldn't have been much in 1918. I suspect at some later date he started receiving VA benefits after the VA was created.

I didn't meet him until I was a young boy in the early 1950's,but he was pulling in enough to get by at that time. A local farmer gave him a shack to live in and enough land for him to plant things like watermelons and cantaloupes to sell to passing tourists.

No way was he getting what he deserved,though. IIRC,he lost one eye due to the poisoning,and his whole face was horribly burnt. I suppose his torso was also,but never saw him without a shirt and pants. I do know he was very scary looking to me as a young boy.

Two Vietnam era vets I know are not getting anything from their agent orange exposure. They both live in NYS and that might have something to do with it, I also no a couple of guys that had to fight like hell (3+ years) over some stuff they got in the sandbox. It is only recently that our military is getting proper treatment. My idiot Nephew is getting decent disability after his Medical discharge from the Navy for his knee they screwed up.

[mystery-ak]

Turkey Will Officially Oppose Sweden Joining NATO, Erdogan Says

Turkey will oppose Sweden and Finland joining NATO, the country’s president flatly stated in a video released Thursday.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/05/19/turkey-will-officially-oppose-sweden-joining-nato-erdogan-says/

[Kamaji]

Turkey Will Officially Oppose Sweden Joining NATO, Erdogan Says

Turkey will oppose Sweden and Finland joining NATO, the country’s president flatly stated in a video released Thursday.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/05/19/turkey-will-officially-oppose-sweden-joining-nato-erdogan-says/

Turkeys in a tough spot with Russia, particularly since they’re selling Ukraine the drones that have been helping to chew up the Russian army.  They’re opposing membership just to keep their balance with Russia. 

[mountaineer]

https://twitter.com/newsmax/status/1528089650878980104

[Cyber Liberty]

Does this mean we'll be seeing more of the Swedish Bikini Team??

[GtHawk]

Does this mean we'll be seeing more of the Swedish Bikini Team??

Define more.

[DB]

https://twitter.com/newsmax/status/1528089650878980104

That's BS. Both countries have said they will pay the 2% of the budgets as stipulated by NATO unlike the other deadbeats.

[sneakypete]

That's BS. Both countries have said they will pay the 2% of the budgets as stipulated by NATO unlike the other deadbeats.

@DB

AND.....,Sweden and Finland are NOT responsible for other nations not paying their fees. They are only responsible for their own debts.