Author Topic: Elon Musk’s Tesla to Cover Travel Costs for Employees Seeking Out-of-State Abortions  (Read 1754 times)

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Offline mountaineer

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Levi Strauss also doing this.
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Levi Strauss & Co.
@LeviStraussCo
As business leaders, we're responsible for protecting the health and well-being of our employees, and that includes protecting reproductive rights and abortion access.
blahblahblah

Sean Davis
@seanmdav
Nah, you just figure that killing your employees’ babies is cheaper than maternity leave.
9:21 PM · May 6, 2022
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Online roamer_1

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I've always taken the constitutional position on abortion.  It's up to each individual state, the fedgov has no say in the matter.

I don't think that's right either...

I am more satisfied than not to give it over to the states, just as I would be alright with a provision for rape and incest (if that were actually possible).

In the end it must be a Constitutional issue, based upon how the government can sanction death... There is only just cause or due process - Abortion fits neither - And therefore, it is the purpose of the government at all levels to otherwise protect life - The foremost enumerated right... Before liberty and the pursuit of happiness...

There is no state that can take YOUR life without just cause or due process... Nor can the feds... That baby is no different, except in its utter innocence and inability to protect itself.  If we fail to protect the most innocent life of all, our vaunted Constitution is nothing but a charade, And American justice a joke.

Offline sneakypete

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@sneakypete

Sure. That is not an accident. That is a criminal assault.

@roamer_1

Should teen girls and women who get impregnated due to rape be forced to bear the child?
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Online roamer_1

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@roamer_1

Should teen girls and women who get impregnated due to rape be forced to bear the child?

@sneakypete

Is its progeny the child's fault? Punish the rapist, I am good with that. Kill the child? What did the child do wrong? Besides, it is a specious argument. Abortion because of rape is a tiny minority of cases.

Offline sneakypete

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@sneakypete

Is its progeny the child's fault? Punish the rapist, I am good with that. Kill the child? What did the child do wrong? Besides, it is a specious argument. Abortion because of rape is a tiny minority of cases.

@roamer_1

Ok,come on out and have the balls to admit a pregnant 14 year old girl that has been raped should give birth and be saddled with motherhood and lose her chance for a life of her own.

If that is what you think,and it seems to be,man up and say it.

BTW,I DO agree with you that the rape and the impregnation are a tragedy,as would be aborting the child of rape.

Life ain't perfect. If it were,there would be no young girls or women raped.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 05:28:00 pm by sneakypete »
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Online Kamaji

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@roamer_1

Ok,come on out and have the balls to admit a pregnant 14 year old girl that has been raped should give birth and be saddled with motherhood and lose her chance for a life of her own.

If that is what you think,and it seems to be,man up and say it.

BTW,I DO agree with you that the rape and the impregnation are a tragedy,as would be aborting the child of rape.

Life ain't perfect. If it were,there would be no young girls or women raped.

:thumbsup:

Online Bigun

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I don't think that's right either...

I am more satisfied than not to give it over to the states, just as I would be alright with a provision for rape and incest (if that were actually possible).

In the end it must be a Constitutional issue, based upon how the government can sanction death... There is only just cause or due process - Abortion fits neither - And therefore, it is the purpose of the government at all levels to otherwise protect life - The foremost enumerated right... Before liberty and the pursuit of happiness...

There is no state that can take YOUR life without just cause or due process... Nor can the feds... That baby is no different, except in its utter innocence and inability to protect itself.  If we fail to protect the most innocent life of all, our vaunted Constitution is nothing but a charade, And American justice a joke.

That is another matter @roamer_1 There is nothing in the constitution that would prevent a state law from being declared unconstitutional is there? I seem to recall that happening quite a bit.

Following the constitution is the correct path forward.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 05:34:07 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

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@roamer_1

Ok,come on out and have the balls to admit a pregnant 14 year old girl that has been raped should give birth and be saddled with motherhood and lose her chance for a life of her own.

If that is what you think,and it seems to be,man up and say it.

BTW,I DO agree with you that the rape and the impregnation are a tragedy,as would be aborting the child of rape.

Life ain't perfect. If it were,there would be no young girls or women raped.

@sneakypete

As I said upthread, I would 'settle', as it were, for abortion to be turned over to the state, as well as provisions for rape and incest (if that were possible).

But yes - The girl should keep the kid. I have come to know that EVERY child is a blessing. So the woman is not 'saddled' with anything except the trauma, which the blessing of the child often helps to repair. Seldom does a mother hate her children or figure them to be a burden.

Every path in this world has its dangers... Every path can change your life in unexpected ways that often seem to be burdensome... But often the blessings far outweigh the curse.

Offline sneakypete

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@sneakypete

As I said upthread, I would 'settle', as it were, for abortion to be turned over to the state, as well as provisions for rape and incest (if that were possible).

But yes - The girl should keep the kid. I have come to know that EVERY child is a blessing. So the woman is not 'saddled' with anything except the trauma, which the blessing of the child often helps to repair. Seldom does a mother hate her children or figure them to be a burden.

Every path in this world has its dangers... Every path can change your life in unexpected ways that often seem to be burdensome... But often the blessings far outweigh the curse.

@roamer_1

I couldn't agree more,but who are either of us to tell a young girl or woman we don't know what to do with her life?

AND.......,we are NOT talking about individual opinions,here. We are talking about state and national laws.

I,personally,don't believe abortion or much of anything else,should be governed by a Federal Government. I believe this should be the decision of individual states and their voters.
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Online roamer_1

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That is another matter @roamer_1 There is nothing in the constitution that would prevent a state law from being declared unconstitutional is there? I seem to recall that happening quite a bit.

Following the constitution is the correct path forward.


@Bigun
I agree with you @Bigun , except in the bare fact that no level of government can take your life without due process or just cause... Except in the case of abortion. I think that's the crux of the thing right there.

Let the states decide, willy-nilly to sanction killing babies, how long will it be before the states can willy-nilly decide to sanction killing you? There ain't no way around it. And the feds, the very same.

Online Bigun

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@Bigun
I agree with you @Bigun , except in the bare fact that no level of government can take your life without due process or just cause... Except in the case of abortion. I think that's the crux of the thing right there.

Let the states decide, willy-nilly to sanction killing babies, how long will it be before the states can willy-nilly decide to sanction killing you? There ain't no way around it. And the feds, the very same.

Let those states willing to sanction the wanton killing of babies take their chances in federal court and see how they fare. @roamer_1

Edit to add: All we have to win is one!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 05:50:59 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

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@roamer_1

I couldn't agree more,but who are either of us to tell a young girl or woman we don't know what to do with her life?


The hubris of modernity, @sneakypete . It wasn't an issue until sanctioned sterile abortions became available and approved. How is it that we DO know what to do with her life if she kills her 2 year-old child? It is the very same thing.

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AND.......,we are NOT talking about individual opinions,here. We are talking about state and national laws.


Right... Which I have already ceded to 'settle' for states, and even rape and incest if it were possible.

But it is still philosophically and morally wrong... Necessarily so.

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I,personally,don't believe abortion or much of anything else,should be governed by a Federal Government. I believe this should be the decision of individual states and their voters.

In the same way as any other due process action... I agree. But then, due process must occur. There must be a charge and a trial, a conviction and a sentence. There is no other way (but Just cause) for a state to sanction the taking of life. That is simply the fact of it.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 05:55:45 pm by roamer_1 »

Online roamer_1

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Let those states willing to sanction the wanton killing of babies take their chances in federal court and see how they fare. @roamer_1

Edit to add: All we have to win is one!

I like it @Bigun

Except that leads us right back to where we are with a SCOTUS decision...

Online Bigun

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I like it @Bigun

Except that leads us right back to where we are with a SCOTUS decision...

I respectfully but strongly disagree @roamer_1 IMHO all of this would have been sorted out long ago had a rogue court not made something up out of whole cloth and saddled us with it for 50 years.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 06:08:17 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

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I respectfully but strongly disagree @roamer_1 IMHO all of this would have been sorted out long ago had a rogue court not made something up out of whole cloth and saddled us with it for 50 years.

Right @Bigun
But in the course of weighing state cases through the appellate system, the eventual and final destination is once again a case before SCOTUS, which may once again be a rogue court all over again... Digging in its navel for penumbras once again... Which is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place.

We ain't afar off, you and me. But an eventual case before an eventual SCOTUS does not give me solace.

Online Bigun

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Right @Bigun
But in the course of weighing state cases through the appellate system, the eventual and final destination is once again a case before SCOTUS, which may once again be a rogue court all over again... Digging in its navel for penumbras once again... Which is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place.

We ain't afar off, you and me. But an eventual case before an eventual SCOTUS does not give me solace.

 :yowsa: I agree @roamer_1 but there is something to be said for doing things the RIGHT (constitutional) way.

BTW: I have little regard for SCOTUS after what they did with Texas vs Pennsylvania.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 06:18:39 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

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:yowsa: I agree @roamer_1 but there is something to be said for doing things the RIGHT (constitutional) way.


BTW: I have little regard for SCOTUS after what they did with Texas vs Pennsylvania.


That's right @Bigun And being as it is codified already from all the way back in the DoI, I don't know how to fix it - Except to codify at the federal level what LIFE means. Because that is the lingering question, and the basis for all of this...

In FACT, there can be no real argument. The assignment of LIFE is in the hands of an higher court than the courts of Man can produce - That is what our documents of establishment declare... With only two exceptions which are present all the way back in English/Celtic Common Law. All that is laid low by novel new means.

Offline sneakypete

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The hubris of modernity, @sneakypete . It wasn't an issue until sanctioned sterile abortions became available and approved.

@roamer_1

I hope you aren't trying to imply there were no abortions before they became legal?

How is it that we DO know what to do with her life if she kills her 2 year-old child? It is the very same thing.

Uh,huh. A month old fetus is the same as a two year old live child?

What color is the sky on your home planet?

Right... Which I have already ceded to 'settle' for states, and even rape and incest if it were possible.

Not sure I understand your point on that one.


But it is still philosophically and morally wrong... Necessarily so.


For you and others who think like you,but nobody died and made you "Masters of the Universe". I suspect  you are even a minority of the population,although I also suspect most of the people who disagree with you are prone to remain silent on this issue so they aren't lumped in with the radical left protestors.

In the same way as any other due process action... I agree. But then, due process must occur. There must be a charge and a trial, a conviction and a sentence. There is no other way (but Just cause) for a state to sanction the taking of life. That is simply the fact of it.

So,now you are claiming you become a live human at conception? You are not. You are a nothing more than a parasite inside the body of your mother until birth that has the POTENTIAL to develop into a human being. A fetus will feed off her and be completely dependent on her for absolutely everything until birth.
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Offline Fishrrman

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Folks in this forum can argue about it all they want, but I fearlessly predict that Tesla's position on this is what's going to be adapted by virtually every major corporation in the country, and by many lesser ones as well...

Online Smokin Joe

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@catfish1957

OH,HorseHillary!

There ARE sometimes legitimate reasons for a woman to have an abortion,and HOW is it anybodies business but their own as long as it is done prior to 3 month of conception.

Or maybe you would prefer for some of these girls/women to die from complications,or be stuck with a severely brain-damaged and maybe even crippled child that will forever be a child,and a drain on her heart and resources?

I am,in a general sense,strongly opposed to abortion except for health reasons after 90 days,and don't really like the idea of them earlier than 90 days.

BUT.....,I am NOT a woman or girl facing the consequences alone,so I don't get to make those decisions. Neither does anyone else but the pregnant girl/woman,and I have one very good female friend that had one was she was a teen,and she pays a price for that every day of her life that is much more severe than any price you or the government can put on her back. It has been decades,and she still suffers from that decision to this very day.

And "Yes,I DID "put my money where my mouth is." by offering to marry her in order to give the baby a name,and then help her put it up for adoption. This,despite the fact there was ZERO romance between the two of us. She was just a scared young woman from a Bible-Thumping family that would have never forgiven or spoken to her again if she had that baby. I was in a position to offer her help and an option,so that is what I did. That is the sort of things friends are SUPPOSED to do for one another.
I'm with you, Pete, to a point. I don't like abortion, no matter what, unless it is to prevent the death of the mother in a pregnancy that would have killed both mother and child. Those happen.

But this doesn't necessarily translate to abortion travel.

My granddaughter had twins in the oven, and there were severe complications. We could have lost all three. The medical care trail led from ND to Billings, MT,  to Baylor, back to the NICU in Billings over three months before she made it home with the girls. Medical care does not necessarily translate to abortion, and I really wish the kids had had this sort of backing from her fellow's employer.

For many, this might include cancer care, clinical trials of new possibly effective treatments unavailable otherwise, or other specialty medical care, again: not abortion.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 09:05:42 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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@roamer_1

Ever heard of a thing called "Rape"?
Neither an accident nor is it always result in pregnancy.

I wish I knew the statistics of how often rape results in pregnancy.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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@roamer_1

Ok,come on out and have the balls to admit a pregnant 14 year old girl that has been raped should give birth and be saddled with motherhood and lose her chance for a life of her own.

If that is what you think,and it seems to be,man up and say it.

BTW,I DO agree with you that the rape and the impregnation are a tragedy,as would be aborting the child of rape.

Life ain't perfect. If it were,there would be no young girls or women raped.
Life ain't perfect but you are arguing against the life of an innocent who has no choice in the matter.

I weigh in on the life of the child and would give great consideration on protecting both mother and child during her strenuous times which began with the rape.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 09:32:17 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
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Online roamer_1

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I hope you aren't trying to imply there were no abortions before they became legal?

@sneakypete

Naw. But there were damn few by comparison.

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Uh,huh. A month old fetus is the same as a two year old live child?


Funny thing you know... 'fetus' is just Latin for 'baby'...  :whistle:

And yes - They are the same. If a pregnant woman is killed, why is the murderer charged with two counts?
A child is a child. A distinction without a difference.

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Not sure I understand your point on that one.

I have already said, several times, that I would settle for turning the issue back to the states, and for exceptions in the case of rape and incest (if that were possible) - The reason exceptions for rape and incest are not possible is that a simple claim of rape - with no evidence one way or another - just means everyone will claim rape and nothing will change.

You should read Reagan on this stuff. Look at what he tried to do in allowing abortion in a fair and balanced way in California, to make it rare but accessible in cases of rape, incest, and medical necessity. He went out of his way to be reasonable - But all it took was a panel of 10 doctors willing to rubber stamp cases and abortion took off like a rocket - He thought it the worst mistake he ever made.

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For you and others who think like you,but nobody died and made you "Masters of the Universe". I suspect  you are even a minority of the population,although I also suspect most of the people who disagree with you are prone to remain silent on this issue so they aren't lumped in with the radical left protestors.



No. It is philosophically and morally bankrupt as a matter of contradiction, according to every major religion and philosophy of any historical weight. I don't care who disagrees with me. It is a direct in-your-face contradiction of every meaningful description of life's sanctity.

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So,now you are claiming you become a live human at conception? You are not. You are a nothing more than a parasite inside the body of your mother until birth that has the POTENTIAL to develop into a human being. A fetus will feed off her and be completely dependent on her for absolutely everything until birth.

More liberal claptrap. OF COURSE you are a human at conception. Unique from all others the minute your DNA is modeled at the making of the first cell. Left to it's own devices in its natural environment, what do you think it is, a chicken? It is a baby. By every historical and cultural norm. A woman who is pregnant is 'with child' from the moment she knows. When a woman experiences a miscarriage she has 'lost her baby'.

You have done nothing but fall for the liberal slicing and dicing of historical norms - Again, the hubris of modernity. What has been for long ages does not change simply because somebody changes the words in the definition. What it is remains the same regardless.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 09:39:41 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline mountaineer

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