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Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1150 on: June 08, 2022, 08:01:24 pm »
Nonsense.



How many do want to support and take in? 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1151 on: June 08, 2022, 08:04:05 pm »
« Last Edit: June 08, 2022, 08:05:53 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1152 on: June 08, 2022, 08:11:26 pm »

Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1153 on: June 08, 2022, 08:17:24 pm »
Severodonetsk becomes a huge mass grave for Russian army and Kadyrovites

Иван Яковина  |  7 June, 12:49 PM

Russian dictator Vladimir Putin needed propaganda success, so he demanded that his army capture the Luhansk Oblast. However, the city of Severodonetsk turned out to be a trap set by the Ukrainian military.


International observer Ivan Yakovina shared with Radio NV on June 6 what happened on the Luhansk axis over the past week, and how Russians have reacted to these developments. The following is an edited transcript of his briefing.  .  .

.  .  .  Putin needs a propaganda win, and therefore he wants his army to capture Lysychansk and Severodonetsk as soon as possible.

Since their encirclement (of Ukraine’s Joint Forces Operation) failed, Russia threw all its troops into a frontal assault, first on Severodonetsk.

This attack was quite successful. A few days ago, it was announced that 70-80% of Severodonetsk was captured, that the Ukrainian army was retreating, that it was evacuating across the Siverskyi Donets River to Lysychansk.

On June 4, reports began to appear that everything was not as bad as it seemed. And the day after, it became clear that the Ukrainian army had prepared an ambush there.  .  .  .

https://english.nv.ua/nation/severodonetsk-as-huge-mass-grave-for-russian-army-and-kadyrovites-russia-invasion-of-ukraine-50248122.html



While I don't believe claims that this battle is a "decisive defeat" for Russia, it is clear that it has not been a success either.  A few days ago, the talk was about how Ukraine would abandon Severodonetsk to avoid being surrounded as Russian troops made a swift advance into the city.  Now we see Russian troops retreating.

I suspect there is more truth to this then not. Russia has lost a lot of high level officers and their army doesn't have a strong non-com corps. It may be we are starting to see a swing in Ukraine's favor. It seems they are making progress towards Kherson.
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Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1154 on: June 08, 2022, 08:18:38 pm »
What happens to weapons sent to Ukraine? The US doesn't really know

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/19/politics/us-weapons-ukraine-intelligence/index.html
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1155 on: June 08, 2022, 08:22:36 pm »
@Kamaji

Replenishing US arms supplies a matter of ‘urgency’ amid huge shipments to Ukraine

 The US is expected to amplify its military assistance to Ukraine in the coming days as the Senate is anticipated to pass a bill giving Kyiv billions of additional weapons and military assistance. But the sheer extent of US arms donations has sharply reduced its own supplies – and analysts warn it will take time to replace a lot of this equipment.

Washington has sent more than $3.5 billion worth of arms since Russia invaded – including Javelin anti-tank missiles, shoulder Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, M777 howitzer artillery pieces, and the novel Switchblade and Phoenix Ghost kamikaze-like drone systems. Now the $40 billion bill the House passed on Tuesday will take all this military assistance to another level after its expected passage through the Senate.

The new package includes $6 billion for defence assistance including weapons and training; $8.7 billion to replenish supplies of US military equipment Ukraine has already received; and an extra $11 billion in the Presidential Drawdown Authority, which allows the White House to send emergency supplies without Congress’s green light. Much of the remaining money will go to non-military purposes like humanitarian assistance for refugees and economic help for Ukraine.
Concerns on Capitol Hill

The magnitude of these arms transfers to Ukraine has prompted questions about whether the US is depleting its stockpiles – especially given the need for contingency plans in case tensions with North Korea, Iran or even China spiral out of control.

Two senior House Armed Services Committee members have expressed concern about the US’s Stinger inventory running down. The Pentagon has not purchased any more of them in nearly two decades, while manufacturer Raytheon has warned it has finite supplies of the necessary parts.

The committee’s chairman, Washington Democrat Adam Smith, and its highest-ranking Republican, Mike Rogers of Alabama, wrote to Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley in March, saying that there was an “urgency” to the Stinger inventory issue.....

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20220514-replenishing-us-arms-supplies-a-matter-of-urgency-amid-huge-shipments-to-ukraine
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1156 on: June 08, 2022, 08:27:16 pm »
@Kamaji

Replenishing US arms supplies a matter of ‘urgency’ amid huge shipments to Ukraine

 The US is expected to amplify its military assistance to Ukraine in the coming days as the Senate is anticipated to pass a bill giving Kyiv billions of additional weapons and military assistance. But the sheer extent of US arms donations has sharply reduced its own supplies – and analysts warn it will take time to replace a lot of this equipment.

Washington has sent more than $3.5 billion worth of arms since Russia invaded – including Javelin anti-tank missiles, shoulder Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, M777 howitzer artillery pieces, and the novel Switchblade and Phoenix Ghost kamikaze-like drone systems. Now the $40 billion bill the House passed on Tuesday will take all this military assistance to another level after its expected passage through the Senate.

The new package includes $6 billion for defence assistance including weapons and training; $8.7 billion to replenish supplies of US military equipment Ukraine has already received; and an extra $11 billion in the Presidential Drawdown Authority, which allows the White House to send emergency supplies without Congress’s green light. Much of the remaining money will go to non-military purposes like humanitarian assistance for refugees and economic help for Ukraine.
Concerns on Capitol Hill

The magnitude of these arms transfers to Ukraine has prompted questions about whether the US is depleting its stockpiles – especially given the need for contingency plans in case tensions with North Korea, Iran or even China spiral out of control.

Two senior House Armed Services Committee members have expressed concern about the US’s Stinger inventory running down. The Pentagon has not purchased any more of them in nearly two decades, while manufacturer Raytheon has warned it has finite supplies of the necessary parts.

The committee’s chairman, Washington Democrat Adam Smith, and its highest-ranking Republican, Mike Rogers of Alabama, wrote to Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley in March, saying that there was an “urgency” to the Stinger inventory issue.....

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20220514-replenishing-us-arms-supplies-a-matter-of-urgency-amid-huge-shipments-to-ukraine


We aren't going to be fighting hand-to-hand in our back yards because we're supporting Ukraine with arms against the Russian nazis.  There is no need for such silly hyperbole.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2022, 09:15:26 pm by Kamaji »

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1157 on: June 08, 2022, 08:53:29 pm »
@Kamaji

Replenishing US arms supplies a matter of ‘urgency’ amid huge shipments to Ukraine

 The US is expected to amplify its military assistance to Ukraine in the coming days as the Senate is anticipated to pass a bill giving Kyiv billions of additional weapons and military assistance. But the sheer extent of US arms donations has sharply reduced its own supplies – and analysts warn it will take time to replace a lot of this equipment.

Washington has sent more than $3.5 billion worth of arms since Russia invaded – including Javelin anti-tank missiles, shoulder Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, M777 howitzer artillery pieces, and the novel Switchblade and Phoenix Ghost kamikaze-like drone systems. Now the $40 billion bill the House passed on Tuesday will take all this military assistance to another level after its expected passage through the Senate.

The new package includes $6 billion for defence assistance including weapons and training; $8.7 billion to replenish supplies of US military equipment Ukraine has already received; and an extra $11 billion in the Presidential Drawdown Authority, which allows the White House to send emergency supplies without Congress’s green light. Much of the remaining money will go to non-military purposes like humanitarian assistance for refugees and economic help for Ukraine.
Concerns on Capitol Hill

The magnitude of these arms transfers to Ukraine has prompted questions about whether the US is depleting its stockpiles – especially given the need for contingency plans in case tensions with North Korea, Iran or even China spiral out of control.

Two senior House Armed Services Committee members have expressed concern about the US’s Stinger inventory running down. The Pentagon has not purchased any more of them in nearly two decades, while manufacturer Raytheon has warned it has finite supplies of the necessary parts.

The committee’s chairman, Washington Democrat Adam Smith, and its highest-ranking Republican, Mike Rogers of Alabama, wrote to Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley in March, saying that there was an “urgency” to the Stinger inventory issue.....

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20220514-replenishing-us-arms-supplies-a-matter-of-urgency-amid-huge-shipments-to-ukraine

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1158 on: June 09, 2022, 12:45:50 am »
Hey, hey, hey!  No sniping between Members!  I have too much fun on these threads otherwise....
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1159 on: June 09, 2022, 12:56:22 am »
I don't know how many times in how many ways this has been said and still the pro-appeasement crowd doesn't want to understand it.

OMG... stop, just stop.

This isn't Hitler marching through Europe.  Hell, it isn't even Russia marching through Ukraine. It's an eight year old border conflict no one in Europe really cares about.  The dirty little secret is no one there wants the Ukraine ----- not NATO, not the EU.  All they want from this is a larger laudromat.

This is most certainly not our fight so stop, just stop, trying to turn this into an actual war with your flashbacks to the 1930s.

Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1160 on: June 09, 2022, 01:13:40 am »
OMG... stop, just stop.

This isn't Hitler marching through Europe.  Hell, it isn't even Russia marching through Ukraine. It's an eight year old border conflict no one in Europe really cares about.  The dirty little secret is no one there wants the Ukraine ----- not NATO, not the EU.  All they want from this is a larger laudromat.

This is most certainly not our fight so stop, just stop, trying to turn this into an actual war with your flashbacks to the 1930s.

Amen!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1161 on: June 09, 2022, 01:26:42 am »
OMG... stop, just stop.

This isn't Hitler marching through Europe.  Hell, it isn't even Russia marching through Ukraine. It's an eight year old border conflict no one in Europe really cares about.  The dirty little secret is no one there wants the Ukraine ----- not NATO, not the EU.  All they want from this is a larger laudromat.

This is most certainly not our fight so stop, just stop, trying to turn this into an actual war with your flashbacks to the 1930s.

LOL...

A "border conflict" where they were invaded from the south, north and east in attempted to consume their entire country and replace its leadership with a Russian based government...

That's some "border conflict"...

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1162 on: June 09, 2022, 01:28:17 am »
So far we have spent nearly $50B on Ukraine. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/05/17/ukraine-aid-bill-break-down/9674471002/?gnt-cfr=1

In Texas alone, they spend over 850M on illegals a YEAR!  This isn't just a one time cost. 

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxton-illegal-immigration-costs-texas-taxpayers-over-850-million-each-year
I thoroughly agree that something needs to be done about the Biden sponsored invasion of not just Texas, but the whole United States.

However, with the blatant contempt this Administration has shown for the idea of actually upholding the Law and stopping this invasion, to the point it has violated the terms of the very Constitution by not only not protecting the states from invasion, but aiding and abetting the invaders, do any of us think for even one second that any monies appropriated for the purpose of enhancing border security will actually be spent on that mission?

It isn't happening. Short of an ad hoc army of Americans to defend our borders, those still trying to fulfill the mission they have sworn to do are without backup FROM THE HIGHEST LEVELS.

What is happening at the border is exactly what Biden & Co. have set up and desire.

This is treason, no other word for it.

And while practical tourists are held in solitary in the DC gulag, for setting foot in a building that theoretically they are part owners of, those who have no business crossing the border invade with impunity and support FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

At least a trickle of aid is getting to Ukraine, unlike the border towns of Texas and other states, and no matter how much money is pledged to secure the border, it just isn't happening, by orders form the top..
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 01:31:35 am by Smokin Joe »
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Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1163 on: June 09, 2022, 01:39:07 am »
I thoroughly agree that something needs to be done about the Biden sponsored invasion of not just Texas, but the whole United States.

However, with the blatant contempt this Administration has shown for the idea of actually upholding the Law and stopping this invasion, to the point it has violated the terms of the very Constitution by not only not protecting the states from invasion, but aiding and abetting the invaders, do any of us think for even one second that any monies appropriated for the purpose of enhancing border security will actually be spent on that mission?

It isn't happening. Short of an ad hoc army of Americans to defend our borders, those still trying to fulfill the mission they have sworn to do are without backup FROM THE HIGHEST LEVELS.

What is happening at the border is exactly what Biden & Co. have set up and desire.

This is treason, no other word for it.

And while practical tourists are held in solitary in the DC gulag, for setting foot in a building that theoretically they are part owners of, those who have no business crossing the border invade with impunity and support FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

At least a trickle of aid is getting to Ukraine, unlike the border towns of Texas and other states, and no matter how much money is pledged to secure the border, it just isn't happening, by orders form the top..

Yes, truly a crisis in more ways than one!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1164 on: June 09, 2022, 06:14:15 am »
Hell, it isn't even Russia marching through Ukraine.

False.


It's an eight year old border conflict no one in Europe really cares about.

False.


The dirty little secret is no one there wants the Ukraine ----- not NATO, not the EU.

False.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1165 on: June 09, 2022, 06:15:48 am »
LOL...

A "border conflict" where they were invaded from the south, north and east in attempted to consume their entire country and replace its leadership with a Russian based government...

That's some "border conflict"...

Yep.  And no matter how many times this lie is exposed, it keeps getting repeated.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1166 on: June 09, 2022, 06:37:12 am »
just stop, trying to turn this into an actual war with your flashbacks to the 1930s.

Speaking of flashbacks to WWII, here's what they are discussing on Russian TV today - whether two POWs from 'the British Empire' should be shot, hanged, or drawn and quartered, because that's how they did it back in the early 1940s.

https://redd.it/v7win4
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1167 on: June 09, 2022, 07:03:02 am »
Russian Officials Take Office in Separatist Eastern Ukraine

one hour ago



United Russia Party General Council Secretary Andrei Turchak, St Petersburg Governor Alexander Beglov
and Donetsk People's Republic leader Denis Pushilin (L-R front).Nikolai Trishin/TASS


Senior Russian government officials have for the first time been appointed as members of eastern Ukraine's Donetsk People's Republic (DNR) separatist administration amid growing signs that Russia could permanently occupy captured territories during the invasion.

DNR leader Denis Pushilin named former Russian Industry and Trade Ministry department head Vitaly Khotsenko as the head of the breakaway region's so-called Council of Ministers. 

Russian media say Khotsenko, 36, is the first high-ranking Russian government official to hold public office in the DNR.

Born in central Ukraine's city of Dnipro, Khotsenko had served as energy minister in southern Russia's Stavropol region and, since 2019, head of industrial policy and project management in the Russian Trade Ministry.

Pushilin, who announced the reshuffle on Wednesday, named two other senior Russian officials as Khotsenko's deputies.

Yevgeny Solntsev had served as adviser to Russia's Construction, Housing and Utilities Minister, while Alexander Kostomarov was deputy governor of western Russia's Lipetsk and Ulyanovsk regions.

Pushilin said the new executive team faces a "broad range" of tasks, including post-war reconstruction and "integration" with Russia.  .  .

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/09/russian-officials-take-office-in-separatist-eastern-ukraine-a77944



Russian puppets are now being replaced by real live Russians.  So let's stop with the lies about Donetsk being an 'independent state'.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline jafo2010

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1168 on: June 09, 2022, 07:05:35 am »
Naked aggression executed by Putin, or by Hitler, what is the difference?  NONE!!!

Putin has sold Russia on the notion that he is rescuing folks of Russian heritage living in Ukraine.  And from all I have read, there may well be some truth in that.  But his attacking the entire country of Ukraine had but one objective, to capture the country and control the vast mineral wealth of the Ukraine for him and a handful of oligarchs.  Regardless of the reason,  his efforts were flat out wrong.

The general population of Russia is NOT being told of the huge losses of Russian military in Ukraine.  They are being told hundreds have been killed when I have heard numbers in the 25, - 30,000 range.  If this conflict continues, I eventually see the Russian people getting smart about the fact their sons are not coming back, and I fully expect Putin's reign will end soon enough.  However, with his removal, I am not certain Russia and the world will be better off. 

And in the meantime, Ukraine will be left in ruins.  And the USA will be out $100 - 200 billion in taxpayer funds!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 07:21:30 am by jafo2010 »

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1169 on: June 09, 2022, 07:44:43 am »
Missile hits shopping center in Ukraine's Kharkiv city

Anadolu Agency  |  June 08,2022



A woman takes a picture of a shopping mall damaged by a Russian missile strike, as Russia's attack on Ukraine continues, in Kharkiv, Ukraine June 8, 2022 (REUTERS)

A shopping center in Ukraine's second-largest city of Kharkiv was severely damaged in a missile attack by Russian forces, the mall's director said on Wednesday.

The building of the mall, Vostorg, was partially destroyed in the attack, but there were no casualties.

Svetlana Giulina told Anadolu Agency that Russian forces hit the mall with missiles Tuesday midnight, and "hit this building directly."

Despite the attack, she added that they will try reopening the center by next week.  .  .  .

https://www.anews.com.tr/world/2022/06/08/missile-hits-shopping-center-in-ukraines-kharkiv-city



Russia continues its war on Ukrainian civilians.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1170 on: June 09, 2022, 11:26:59 am »
Naked aggression executed by Putin, or by Hitler, what is the difference?  NONE!!!

I think this comparison is apples to oranges @jafo2010  While there is no doubt there is a legacy link between Russia and the people living in the separatist Republics or Russia's eye is on the natural resources and industry of the region, this confict is not the same as Hitler's wanton aggression.

Kiev had eight years to settle this separation, if not perfectly, at least to its satisfaction.  It was in their best interest to do so.

But after Minsk II fell apart in 2015, Kiev gave up negotiating with the region (as did the EU), washed its hands of it and settled into seven more years of a relentless military assault of the region ---- giving Russia the opening it needed to take action.  Had it not been for the Trump presidency, Russia would have moved sooner.  Everyone in Europe knew this was coming for years and did everything to promote it and nothing to diffuse it.

So after eight years, In February Putin formally recognized the independence from Kiev of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics --- and here we are.

I also doubt Putin wants Ukraine .... at least not this Ukraine.  I say this with some confidence since no one does, including the EU and NATO.  Ukraine is clearly considered immaterial so something other than "freedom" is at play here.  Maybe sooner rather than later we'll know what that "something" is.

Quote
And in the meantime, Ukraine will be left in ruins.  And the USA will be out $100 - 200 billion in taxpayer funds!

Infuriating and true.

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1171 on: June 09, 2022, 03:12:58 pm »
While there is no doubt there is a legacy link between Russia and the people living in the separatist Republics

The "legacy link" here is that there is over a century of contempt, aggression, persecution, starvation, forced relocation, rape, and murder by Russia against the people living in Ukraine.


or Russia's eye is on the natural resources and industry of the region

La raison d’aller à la guerre.


this confict is not the same as Hitler's wanton aggression.

Hitler invaded Ukraine for the expansion of territory, the vast farming, and for access to the Caucasian oil fields. 
Putin Invaded Ukraine for the expansion of territory, the vast farming, and for access to Ukraine's oil and gas fields.


Kiev had eight years to settle this separation

False.  From Day One, Russia created "the separation", and has interfered every step of the way.  At no point in the last eight years has Ukraine been given the opportunity "to settle", especially considering the presence of Russian troops on Ukrainian soil.


But after Minsk II fell apart in 2015

Minsk II (as well as Minsk I) fell apart because of Russian interference.  Minsk I because of Russia arming pro-Russian forces inside of Ukraine that violated the cease fire with the Donetsk Airport attack, and Minsk II because Russia sanctioned phony elections in Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea that were in violation of Ukraine law.  So let's at least be honest about the cause of the Minsk agreement collapse before using that as a premise.  Russia, Russia, Russia.


Kiev gave up negotiating with the region

What is the point of negotiating with people that are incapable of keeping their word?  Let's not forget that Russia was also a signatory to the Minsk agreements, but was already in violation of them before the ink was dry.


(as did the EU)

Ah yes, the EU.  Let's not forget that Ukraine was already on track to join the EU, and it was Russia that sabotaged that by bribing Yanukovych in 2013.  And let's not forget that it was the impeachment of Yanukovych that triggered Russia's 2014 invasion to begin with.  Russia couldn't handle the fact that the Ukrainian people rejected their puppet leader, so they invaded Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk.


and settled into seven more years of a relentless military assault of the region ---- giving Russia the opening it needed to take action.

A lie.  Russia had already been fully involved for over a year.  The end of negotiations were because of Russian interference.


Had it not been for the Trump presidency, Russia would have moved sooner.

An admission from you that Russia has wanted to annex Ukraine from the beginning.


So after eight years, In February Putin formally recognized the independence from Kiev of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics --- and here we are.

In word, yes.  But one thing we have learned over the past nine years is that Vladimir Putin is a lying POS.  And in action, it is quite clear that Putin is not recognizing any independence for anyone in Ukraine.  Donetsk is a wasteland, its people slaughtered or driven into exile, its cities leveled.  And the so-called Donetsk 'Republic' [sic] now has a Russian leader hand-picked by Putin.  Seriously.

So no, there is no independence for any territory occupied by Russia.  These occupied territories are undergoing a cultural and ethnic genocide where Ukrainians are removed, to be replaced by new Russians, with their land annexed into Greater Russia.


I also doubt Putin wants Ukraine .... at least not this Ukraine.

Putin only wants Russia to expand, and for Ukraine to cease to exist.


I say this with some confidence since no one does, including the EU and NATO.

Ukrainians want Ukraine.


Ukraine is clearly considered immaterial

Hitler said the exact same thing.  So did Stalin.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1172 on: June 09, 2022, 03:18:26 pm »
Good to see two more Nazis getting their comeuppance


Another day, another two Russian colonels killed in Ukraine: Putin loses one of his youngest commanders as bitter fighting for Severodonetsk rages on in battle that will decide fate of Donbas

By CHRIS JEWERS and WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
9 June 2022

Vladimir Putin has lost two more colonels in Ukraine - including one of Russia's youngest to reach such a high rank - as a video showed a Russian battalion being hit with artillery fire while attempting to rescue a casualty.

Elsewhere, in another blow to the Kremlin's war efforts, a separate video released this week showed Ukrainian bombs destroying a Russian ammo depo in a huge ball of flames. Images released by Kyiv also appeared to show a destroyed Russian unit.

These are the latest examples of Ukraine's forces putting up a fierce resistance against Putin's invading forces. Moscow expected to capture Kyiv within days of invading on February 24, but its forces have instead been drawn into a protracted conflict that has resulted in tens-of-thousands Russian military losses.

Meanwhile, bitter fighting for the eastern city of Severodonetsk continued to rage on Thursday, after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said the fate of the whole Donbas region hinges on the 'very fierce' battle.

The deaths of the two high-ranking military figures mean the Kremlin has seen at least 52 colonels killed during the bloody conflict.

Lt-Col Vadim Gerasimov, aged only 36, a battalion from Leningrad region, was posthumously awarded a Hero of Russia - the country's highest honour - on Putin's orders. His widow was also expected to receive his posthumous Order of Courage.

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Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10899649/Putin-loses-two-colonels-Ukraine-One-Russias-youngest-commanders-latest-killed.html


Offline txradioguy

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1173 on: June 09, 2022, 03:56:34 pm »
The "legacy link" here is that there is over a century of contempt, aggression, persecution, starvation, forced relocation, rape, and murder by Russia against the people living in Ukraine.


La raison d’aller à la guerre.


Hitler invaded Ukraine for the expansion of territory, the vast farming, and for access to the Caucasian oil fields. 
Putin Invaded Ukraine for the expansion of territory, the vast farming, and for access to Ukraine's oil and gas fields.


False.  From Day One, Russia created "the separation", and has interfered every step of the way.  At no point in the last eight years has Ukraine been given the opportunity "to settle", especially considering the presence of Russian troops on Ukrainian soil.


Minsk II (as well as Minsk I) fell apart because of Russian interference.  Minsk I because of Russia arming pro-Russian forces inside of Ukraine that violated the cease fire with the Donetsk Airport attack, and Minsk II because Russia sanctioned phony elections in Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea that were in violation of Ukraine law.  So let's at least be honest about the cause of the Minsk agreement collapse before using that as a premise.  Russia, Russia, Russia.


What is the point of negotiating with people that are incapable of keeping their word?  Let's not forget that Russia was also a signatory to the Minsk agreements, but was already in violation of them before the ink was dry.


Ah yes, the EU.  Let's not forget that Ukraine was already on track to join the EU, and it was Russia that sabotaged that by bribing Yanukovych in 2013.  And let's not forget that it was the impeachment of Yanukovych that triggered Russia's 2014 invasion to begin with.  Russia couldn't handle the fact that the Ukrainian people rejected their puppet leader, so they invaded Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk.


A lie.  Russia had already been fully involved for over a year.  The end of negotiations were because of Russian interference.


An admission from you that Russia has wanted to annex Ukraine from the beginning.


In word, yes.  But one thing we have learned over the past nine years is that Vladimir Putin is a lying POS.  And in action, it is quite clear that Putin is not recognizing any independence for anyone in Ukraine.  Donetsk is a wasteland, its people slaughtered or driven into exile, its cities leveled.  And the so-called Donetsk 'Republic' [sic] now has a Russian leader hand-picked by Putin.  Seriously.

So no, there is no independence for any territory occupied by Russia.  These occupied territories are undergoing a cultural and ethnic genocide where Ukrainians are removed, to be replaced by new Russians, with their land annexed into Greater Russia.


Putin only wants Russia to expand, and for Ukraine to cease to exist.


Ukrainians want Ukraine.


Hitler said the exact same thing.  So did Stalin.

^^^

Facts...they matter.  888high58888
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1174 on: June 09, 2022, 06:03:09 pm »
Ukraine claims victories in Severodonetsk as street fighting continues

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
June 9, 2022

Ukrainian forces inched their way closer on Thursday to the center of Severodonetsk, the latest turn in an increasingly bloody struggle for the last unoccupied city in the northern Donbas state of Luhansk.

Ukrainian national guard commander Petro Kusyk measured the troop movement building by building.

“Yesterday was successful for us — we launched a counteroffensive and in some areas we managed to push [the Russians] back one or two blocks. In others they pushed us back, but just by a building or two,” he said in an interview on Ukrainian TV.

“Yesterday the occupiers suffered serious losses — if every day were like yesterday, this would all be over soon.”

The reported rally comes less than a day after reports that Ukrainian forces had been pushed to an industrial area on the outskirts of the town, and were considering a retreat across the Siverskyi Donets River to the higher ground of Lysychansk.



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Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/09/ukraine-claims-victories-in-severodonetsk/