Author Topic: Ukraine 2  (Read 99905 times)

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #975 on: June 01, 2022, 09:27:58 am »
You're posting selective pictures of war for their emotional propaganda value.

Try engaging the frontal lobe and allow the limbic lobe a much needed rest.

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Online Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #976 on: June 01, 2022, 11:05:03 am »
You're posting selective pictures of war for their emotional propaganda value.

Try engaging the frontal lobe and allow the limbic lobe a much needed rest.






You might try a little bit of that yourself.

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #977 on: June 01, 2022, 11:09:20 am »
You might try a little bit of that yourself.
Amazing how a thousand guys (assuming full Battalion strength) managed to hold off the Russians this long, despite losses. Sarcastically speaking, that would give that whole supremacy idea some traction. In reality, what was a small unit is even smaller, and the vast bulk of the fighting for Ukraine is being conducted by people not in that unit.
But...facts, and all that..
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #978 on: June 01, 2022, 11:12:22 am »
Has Putin purged his top commander? General leading the Ukraine war 'hasn't been seen in two weeks' amid rumours he is no longer in charge

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
1 June 2022

Russia's top commander in Ukraine hasn't been seen for two weeks and may no longer be in charge of the invasion, officials have claimed.

General Aleksandr Dvornikov, an accused war criminal who helped Assad gas his own people in Syria, was tapped by Vladimir Putin to lead his armies in April, after he was forced to abandon a blundering assault on Kyiv and refocus on Donbas.

But American officials say General Dvornikov has not been seen for at least two weeks, leading to rumours that he has been purged by Putin.

If confirmed, General Dvornikov will join Admiral Igor Osipov, commander of the Black Sea fleet, and Lieutenant-General Sergei Kisel, leader of the 1st Guards Tank Army, who Western official say have been sacked over battlefield failings.

General Valery Gerasimov, chief of Russia's general staff, is also believed to be missing with Ukraine saying he has been suspended while Putin decides his fate.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10874323/Ukraine-war-Russias-commander-not-seen-two-weeks.html

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #979 on: June 01, 2022, 11:29:35 am »
You might try a little bit of that yourself.

 :silly:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #980 on: June 01, 2022, 11:52:21 am »
Amazing how a thousand guys (assuming full Battalion strength) managed to hold off the Russians this long, despite losses. Sarcastically speaking, that would give that whole supremacy idea some traction. In reality, what was a small unit is even smaller, and the vast bulk of the fighting for Ukraine is being conducted by people not in that unit.
But...facts, and all that..

Speaking of facts,  the Azov Battallion--- even prior to its recent reinforcement from the Western Ukrainian units--- rained terror and death on Donbas for eight years.   Not until this year did they face any real military opposition----and their free-for-all finally began to end with their en masse surrender @Smokin Joe

While I admit I don't understand the embrace and  passionate defense of this group of animals, I do know neither will change the reality of their history.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #981 on: June 01, 2022, 12:02:57 pm »
Speaking of facts,  the Azov Battallion--- even prior to its recent reinforcement from the Western Ukrainian units--- rained terror and death on Donbas for eight years.   Not until this year did they face any real military opposition----and their free-for-all finally began to end with their en masse surrender @Smokin Joe

While I admit I don't understand the embrace and  passionate defense of this group of animals, I do know neither will change the reality of their history.
I am neither embracing nor passionately defending this particular group.
That said, 1000 men (exaggerated starting battalion strength) cannot be everywhere at once, and only constituted a small fraction of those defending their homeland from the Russian invasion.
Yet you never fail to conflate all those defenders with the Azov Battalion, who likely were either killed or captured at Mariupol, in effect, calling EVERY Ukrainian a Nazi. Which leaves you defending the Communists, because, like it or not, this is a dichotomy. Your posts have been anything but neutral; you have taken a side, that of the invaders.

I was just pointing out that, with attrition, considering Mariupol, they are probably at less than 1/10 strength, if that (100 men or less). I might also have the temerity to mention that the horrors and destruction wreaked on the region by the Russians surely outclass anything the Azov bunch did, simply because there were a lot more buildings standing and live civilians there before the Russians invaded, kidnapped people and moved them to "safety" (children and parents separated, of course, a model we have seen before).

Yet you consistently mention Azov as if they were the only Ukrainian fighters in this, rather than a small minority of the Ukrainians fighting to repel a murderous and destructive invader from their homeland. For the benefit of others reading this post, I feel it necessary to point out this fact, that at their most, "Nazis" are a very small part of the overall contingent defending Ukraine from the Russian invasion.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 12:04:17 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #982 on: June 01, 2022, 12:11:52 pm »
RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 31

Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan  |  May 31, 5:45pm ET

Moscow’s concentration on seizing Severodonetsk and Donbas generally continues to create vulnerabilities for Russia in Ukraine’s vital Kherson Oblast, where Ukrainian counter-offensives continue. 
Kherson is critical terrain because it is the only area of Ukraine in which Russian forces hold ground on the west bank of the Dnipro River. If Russia is able to retain a strong lodgment in Kherson when fighting stops it will be in a very strong position from which to launch a future invasion. If Ukraine regains Kherson, on the other hand, Ukraine will be in a much stronger position to defend itself against future Russian attack. This strategic calculus should in principle lead Russia to allocate sufficient combat power to hold Kherson. But Russian President Vladimir Putin has chosen instead to concentrate all the forces and resources that can be scraped together in a desperate and bloody push to seize areas of eastern Ukraine that will give him largely symbolic gains.  .  .

Russian forces are likely attempting to exploit Belarusian equipment reserves to compensate for heavy material losses in Ukraine.  The Ukrainian General Staff reported on May 31 that Belarusian forces are moving tanks and infantry fighting vehicles from storage facilities in Belarus to Russia to replenish combat losses. This report corroborates previous reporting that Russian forces have largely exhausted their own reserves  .  .

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-31
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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #983 on: June 01, 2022, 12:13:12 pm »
Speaking of facts,  the Azov Battallion--- even prior to its recent reinforcement from the Western Ukrainian units--- rained terror and death on Donbas for eight years.

The Azov Battalion ceased to exist in Jan 2015.  But then you knew that already.  Yet here you are again pushing the same lie.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #984 on: June 01, 2022, 12:28:08 pm »
February 2015 - The Battle of Shyrokyne


In Jan 2015, Russian-supported separatists began indiscriminate shelling of Mariupol using Russian artillery shells and mortars supplied by Russia to kill Ukrainian civilians.  January 2015 - Russia killing Ukrainian civilians.  See a pattern here?

Anyway, the newly formed Ukrainian National Guard unit - the Azov Regiment, launched a counter-attack against the Russian DPR forces, pushing them away from Mariupol.  The offensive lasted from Feb through July when the Russian DPR forces withdrew from Shyrokyne.

The Azov 'Regiment' had been incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard in Jan 2015 after all political activists had been removed, thus bringing an end to the Azov 'Battalion'.  This information has been posted already, but at least one poster here continues to parrot the same false Russian propaganda we have been hearing for the last eight years.  Again, it was the Russian-supported DPR that was shelling civilians in Mariupol.  And it was the Ukrainian National Guard unit, the Azov Regiment, that put an end to it.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #985 on: June 01, 2022, 12:42:12 pm »
Don’t expect the EU to ban Russian gas any time soon
Politico, May 31, 2022

After a month of haggling over how to ban Russian oil, only to get a watered-down compromise that lets pipelines keep flowing, EU sanctions on Vladimir Putin's energy exports have reached "the end of the road."

That was the assessment of Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo on Tuesday, summing up the tortuous negotiations which ended in a fudge that let Hungary off the hook.

The logical next step in tightening pressure on Moscow would be to ban Russian gas. But for De Croo and others, that would risk hurting the EU more than Putin.

More:  https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ban-sanctions-russian-gas-oil-orban-ukraine-war

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #986 on: June 01, 2022, 12:49:24 pm »
Don’t expect the EU to ban Russian gas any time soon
Politico, May 31, 2022

After a month of haggling over how to ban Russian oil, only to get a watered-down compromise that lets pipelines keep flowing, EU sanctions on Vladimir Putin's energy exports have reached "the end of the road."

That was the assessment of Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo on Tuesday, summing up the tortuous negotiations which ended in a fudge that let Hungary off the hook.

The logical next step in tightening pressure on Moscow would be to ban Russian gas. But for De Croo and others, that would risk hurting the EU more than Putin.

More:  https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ban-sanctions-russian-gas-oil-orban-ukraine-war
I.O.W., the EU has become energy dependent on Russian supplies.

Let that be a warning...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #987 on: June 01, 2022, 05:49:32 pm »
Russia says US 'adding fuel to fire' with weapons for Ukraine

Ukraine's about to acquire its most powerful ground combat weapons yet.

The US-supplied high mobility artillery rocket system (HIMARS) has a range of around 50 miles (80km).

That’s enough to allow Ukraine to match Russia’s long-range artillery, which has wreaked such devastation in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region in recent weeks.

But the system is arriving very late in the day, with Russian forces having already driven the defending Ukrainians out of much of the east of the country.

If Ukraine's to retake that territory it will need to go on the offensive, which would require a major shift in strategy.

There's an added problem here and that’s the risk of escalation. Washington was initially wary of sending any heavy weapons for fear of provoking Moscow.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61656289
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Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #988 on: June 01, 2022, 07:54:31 pm »
I.O.W., the EU has become energy dependent on Russian supplies.

Let that be a warning...

Exactly.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #989 on: June 01, 2022, 09:15:11 pm »
Putin loses ANOTHER colonel in Ukraine: Close ally of Chechen warlord Ramzan Kadyrov is latest to be killed as death toll among high ranks hits 49

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
1 June 2022

Russia has lost another colonel in Ukraine as Vladimir Putin's top brass continues to suffer heavy casualties in his miscalculated invasion.

Lieutenant-colonel Zaur Dimayev, deputy commander of the 4th battalion of the Akhmat Kadyrov special forces regiment, was killed Tuesday by an artillery barrage in the Donbas region, Telegram channel Baza reported today.

Dimayev was riding in a military SUV through the village of Kamyshevakha, Luhansk province, when it was hit by a Ukrainian shell, according to the site - which is thought to have links to Russian intelligence.

It brings the total number of Russian colonels killed fighting to at least 49, though no official tally has been published by either Kyiv or Moscow.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10874497/Ukraine-war-Putin-loses-colonel.html

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #990 on: June 02, 2022, 12:21:59 am »
 Ukraine flees strategic Donbas region after suffering big losses against Russians
By Ben Kesslen   
June 1, 2022 5:20pm

Ukraine began evacuating its soldiers on Wednesday from the embattled city of Severodonetsk, the strategic eastern city that Russia has been battling to take over in a bid to control the Donbas region, local officials said.

Ukrainian forces retreated after suffering big losses in the city that’s now about 80% controlled by Russian forces, Luhansk regional governor Serhiy Haidai said Wednesday.

“This is not a betrayal,” Haidai wrote in a post on Telegram.

The governor said the retreat across the river to Severodonetsk’s twin city, Lysychansk, was part of their strategy to move to “more advantageous, pre-prepared positions” as they wait for shipments of Western weapons.

Haidai said that as of Wednesday, about 70% of the city was under Russian control, while about 10 to 15% was in”a kind of grey zone” and the rest held by the Ukrainian defenders.

Ukrainian military spokesman Oleksandr Motuzyanyk, however, declined to give an assessment as to how much of the city had fallen to Moscow.

more
https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/ukraine-flees-strategic-donbas-region-city-as-russians-win-gains/
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Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #991 on: June 02, 2022, 03:18:21 am »
RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 31

Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan  |  May 31, 5:45pm ET

Moscow’s concentration on seizing Severodonetsk and Donbas generally continues to create vulnerabilities for Russia in Ukraine’s vital Kherson Oblast, where Ukrainian counter-offensives continue.
Kherson is critical terrain because it is the only area of Ukraine in which Russian forces hold ground on the west bank of the Dnipro River. If Russia is able to retain a strong lodgment in Kherson when fighting stops it will be in a very strong position from which to launch a future invasion. If Ukraine regains Kherson, on the other hand, Ukraine will be in a much stronger position to defend itself against future Russian attack. This strategic calculus should in principle lead Russia to allocate sufficient combat power to hold Kherson. But Russian President Vladimir Putin has chosen instead to concentrate all the forces and resources that can be scraped together in a desperate and bloody push to seize areas of eastern Ukraine that will give him largely symbolic gains.  .  .

Russian forces are likely attempting to exploit Belarusian equipment reserves to compensate for heavy material losses in Ukraine.  The Ukrainian General Staff reported on May 31 that Belarusian forces are moving tanks and infantry fighting vehicles from storage facilities in Belarus to Russia to replenish combat losses. This report corroborates previous reporting that Russian forces have largely exhausted their own reserves  .  .

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-31

It only creates vulnerabilities if Kherson and then Odessa are the goal.

Once the Ukrainians stopped the attempt to take Kyiv and pushed the invaders back I think the goal of Russia has been the oil and gas fields that are in Donbas and due north along the border and in the Sea of Azov. I suspect that the Russians will pull back from Kherson and push for a negotiated peace now that they have crippled Ukraine by destroying their industrial base and Ukraine has lost control over their largest oil and gas reserves. Europe might cave to Russia if they haven't succeeded yet in securing oil and gas from other sources.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 03:29:49 am by bilo »
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Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #992 on: June 02, 2022, 03:39:34 am »
Russia says US 'adding fuel to fire' with weapons for Ukraine

Ukraine's about to acquire its most powerful ground combat weapons yet.

The US-supplied high mobility artillery rocket system (HIMARS) has a range of around 50 miles (80km).

That’s enough to allow Ukraine to match Russia’s long-range artillery, which has wreaked such devastation in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region in recent weeks.

But the system is arriving very late in the day, with Russian forces having already driven the defending Ukrainians out of much of the east of the country.

If Ukraine's to retake that territory it will need to go on the offensive, which would require a major shift in strategy.

There's an added problem here and that’s the risk of escalation. Washington was initially wary of sending any heavy weapons for fear of provoking Moscow.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61656289

I suspect your old enough to have lived through the 80's and Reagan confronting the evil empire. If so you should have learned the lesson Reagan taught all of us. Reagan was constantly being threatened by the evil empire that he was going to cause a war if he wouldn't back off his goal of building a missile defense. Reagan not only refused to do what the evil empire wanted he doubled down. Reagan won the cold war and ended the threat of global thermal nuclear war.

Now here we are 40 years later and the evil empire has returned, but this time it is a wing of conservatism that is saying we should do what the evil empire wants and let them dominate and subjugate people that Reagan freed from their predessor.

Some learn the lessons of history and some don't.
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Online Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #993 on: June 02, 2022, 09:04:09 am »
I suspect your old enough to have lived through the 80's and Reagan confronting the evil empire. If so you should have learned the lesson Reagan taught all of us. Reagan was constantly being threatened by the evil empire that he was going to cause a war if he wouldn't back off his goal of building a missile defense. Reagan not only refused to do what the evil empire wanted he doubled down. Reagan won the cold war and ended the threat of global thermal nuclear war.

Now here we are 40 years later and the evil empire has returned, but this time it is a wing of conservatism that is saying we should do what the evil empire wants and let them dominate and subjugate people that Reagan freed from their predessor.

Some learn the lessons of history and some don't.

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #994 on: June 02, 2022, 12:46:38 pm »
I am neither embracing nor passionately defending this particular group.
That said, 1000 men (exaggerated starting battalion strength) cannot be everywhere at once, and only constituted a small fraction of those defending their homeland from the Russian invasion.
Yet you never fail to conflate all those defenders with the Azov Battalion, who likely were either killed or captured at Mariupol, in effect, calling EVERY Ukrainian a Nazi. Which leaves you defending the Communists, because, like it or not, this is a dichotomy. Your posts have been anything but neutral; you have taken a side, that of the invaders.

I was just pointing out that, with attrition, considering Mariupol, they are probably at less than 1/10 strength, if that (100 men or less). I might also have the temerity to mention that the horrors and destruction wreaked on the region by the Russians surely outclass anything the Azov bunch did, simply because there were a lot more buildings standing and live civilians there before the Russians invaded, kidnapped people and moved them to "safety" (children and parents separated, of course, a model we have seen before).

Yet you consistently mention Azov as if they were the only Ukrainian fighters in this, rather than a small minority of the Ukrainians fighting to repel a murderous and destructive invader from their homeland. For the benefit of others reading this post, I feel it necessary to point out this fact, that at their most, "Nazis" are a very small part of the overall contingent defending Ukraine from the Russian invasion.

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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #995 on: June 02, 2022, 10:41:49 pm »
Allegation:  Ukrainians are selling US Javelins on foreign shadow trading platforms for $30,000 each.

https://twitter.com/fox_pursuit/status/1532487889661186049
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #996 on: June 02, 2022, 10:52:06 pm »
Allegation:  Ukrainians are selling US Javelins on foreign shadow trading platforms for $30,000 each.

China would pay 20 times that, easily.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #997 on: June 02, 2022, 10:55:13 pm »
China would pay 20 times that, easily.
I think the point is that stuff we taxpayers are giving Ukraine is being sold on a black market, and not used to fight their war. I don't know.  :shrug:
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #998 on: June 02, 2022, 11:18:28 pm »
I think the point is that stuff we taxpayers are giving Ukraine is being sold on a black market, and not used to fight their war. I don't know.  :shrug:

Anyone can advertise something for sale.  That doesn't mean it is available.  The price seems low.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Online Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #999 on: June 02, 2022, 11:21:28 pm »
Allegation:  the Russians are eating live any Ukrainian babies they find.