Ukraine 2

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

What is funny is YOU called ME a "Surrender Monkey"!

You're not a surrender monkey @sneakypete  You are honorable ---- a patriot committed to the security of the United States.  I have true respect for you as a man ---- and a debate partner.

Where we differ on Ukraine is I think we're being played and you do not.  IMO, we're being played by the same people who have been lying to us and destroying our country from within for 14 years and counting.  They know this isn't our fight, they know we don't have the resources to write blank checks.  They know our involvement is harming America on mutiple and vital levels----- but it fits their agenda and this should scare the hell out of all of us.

Again IMO, anything that accelerates the agenda of the American Marxist --- and Ukraine does --- is a greater threat to us than Vladimir Putin.

Peace.   

[DCPatriot]

You're not a surrender monkey @sneakypete  You are honorabe ---- a patriot committed to the security of the United States.  I have true respect for you as a man ---- and a debate partner.

Where we differ on Ukraine is I think we're being played and you do not.  IMO, we're being played by the same people who have been lying to us and destroying our country from within for 14 years and counting.  They know this isn't our fight, they know we don't have the resources to write blank checks.  They know our involvement is harming America on mutiple and vital levels----- but it fits their agenda and this should scare the hell out of all of us.

Again IMO, anything that accelerates the agenda of the American Marxist --- and Ukraine does --- is a greater threat to us than Vladimir Putin.

@Right_in_Virginia

And it's amazing that the many intelligent, critical thinkers we have on the forum aren't even willing to acknowledge this. 

Reading the thread, it seems they're more interested in virtue-signaling and insulting whenever somebody even takes a neutral position/stance.

[mystery-ak]

 

[mystery-ak]

 May 23, 2022 1:51pm EDT
Ukraine reveals worst military loss of war after attack on barracks
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says 87 killed in airstrike

By Greg Norman | Fox News

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy revealed Monday that 87 soldiers died last week in a Russian strike on a barracks housing troops, making it the largest military loss from a single attack in the ongoing war.

The deadly incident happened on Tuesday, May 17, in the town of Desna, just north of Ukraine’s capital of Kyiv, according to Reuters.

"Today we completed work at Desna. In Desna, under the rubble, there were 87 casualties. Eighty-seven corpses," Zelenskyy was quoted as saying Monday.

Ukraine earlier said only eight people died in the attack, but the new figure of 87 makes it the highest loss of life in a single attack from the war, Reuters reports.

Russia claims it hit the Ukraine military training base with long-range missiles.

As the war rages on though, Russia is also losing a large number of troops, according to the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defense.


A uniformed soldiers stands around a crater in the middle of a courtyard in Desna, Ukraine, on Tuesday, May 17.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-reveals-worst-military-loss-of-russia-war

[Hoodat]

Chechen Sheik Mansour battalion fighters take a joy ride on captured Russian T-72

[DCPatriot]

That's not fair, @mystery-ak   

Done nothing but lurk for the most part and I'm not any part of your frustration for any of the recent "hair-pulling" you're experiencing now.

You KNOW I'm right.   They conflate anything with less than total compliance for sympathy for the Russian devil.

[Elderberry]

US may deploy special forces troops to protect embassy in Ukraine, report says

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/05/us-may-deploy-special-forces-troops-to-protect-embassy-in-ukraine-report-says/

The United States military and other Biden administration officials are considering sending special forces troops to Ukraine to guard the recently reopened U.S. embassy in Kyiv as the Russian invasion continues.

According to U.S. officials, President Joe Biden has not been approached about the plans yet, but if they are approved, the special forces troops would only serve as defense and security of the embassy, the Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday.

Officials may also reinstate the Marine security guard detachment that typically provides security at embassies around the world.

While officials weigh sending dozens of American special forces troops to Ukraine, the State Department will provide its own security for the embassy, which will be comprised of guards in the Diplomatic Security Service.

More at link.

[Hoodat]

Reading the thread, it seems they're more interested in virtue-signaling and insulting whenever somebody even takes a neutral position/stance.

I think you are confusing the Russian invasion of Ukraine with US politics.

[sneakypete]

And it's amazing that the many intelligent, critical thinkers we have on the forum aren't even willing to acknowledge this. 

Reading the thread, it seems they're more interested in virtue-signaling and insulting whenever somebody even takes a neutral position/stance.

@DCPatriot

How can anyone remain neutral on this? You are either for it,or against it.

[catfish1957]

@DCPatriot

How can anyone remain neutral on this? You are either for it,or against it.

Nope....

Most of us want to see Russia fail, but also see it is not in our best interest to fund this bullshot while this country is $30T in debt, and is letting an invasion to go on to our south unabated.  Wrong priority. 

Holding the Russian bear at bay is more of Europe's concern, and since they as a rule are better off financially, should be underwriting it.

[Elderberry]

US Special Forces veteran, founder of AFGfree.org Perry Blackburn

Russians don't have complete control in «red» zones signed on maps as occupied

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3490843-us-special-forces-veteran-founder-of-afgfreeorg-perry-blackburn.html

The Ukrainians are fighting a brilliant military strategy of using “Defense in Depth” which they learned to do quite quickly. It stalls and confuses the Russians because includes multiple levels of simultaneous attacks from conventional and irregular forces. Retired US Special Forces Lieutenant Colonel Perry Blackburn described these in an exclusive interview for Ukrinform.

He’s been in Ukraine helping distribute much-needed supplies to denied areas with his nonprofit group AFGfree.org. Recently he began an assessment of the Ukrainian Territorial Defense’s efforts to recruit, train, organize and equip Ukrainians in their force structure. Now he’s helping create a cohesive strategy with Ukrainian Territorial Defense to “train the trainers” on the combat basics of how to effectively “shoot, move, and communicate.”   

- In regard to where the war is now, what are you seeing as far as conventional tactics that Ukrainian forces have been using that are most effective against the Russians?

-The defense they're doing is a classic “Defense in Depth.” Ukrainians learned to employ the strategy quickly, and it has been an important strategy against the enemy's advance. It stalls and confuses the Russians when there are multiple levels of simultaneous attacks from conventional and irregular forces, with complete support from the Ukrainian people.

I think the other conventional method that Ukrainians are using quite well is the counteroffensive, the counterattack. As we know, in our military, the only time we defend is to prepare for the offense, and I think that the Ukrainian military is starting to use those same tactics – defend to prepare for the offense, and you see that on the ground a lot more lately than you did on the early days.

- What are Ukrainians doing well, both from a conventional military standpoint and with unconventional or irregular forces? What tactics, techniques, and procedures are Ukrainians using that are effective against Russians?

- Well, to be honest, I really haven’t seen anything effectively used by Russia against the Ukrainians. Growing up in the Cold War era, we knew Russians were going to be a slow, but not methodical, invading force. That they would use artillery to try to punish their opponents and make them capitulate.

I think that's what we saw early on, but somehow, folks forgot that lesson and thought that Russians were about speed and flexibility and that this was going to be over within seven days. But the Ukrainians had a great-great vote in this thing, and they stood up against that and have done an amazing job.

What I’ve seen from the Ukrainian perspective, first of all, is they've come together. They’ve bonded as brothers and sisters at war, and they've established a quick trust in their leadership in President Zelenskyy, which is paramount in conducting any kind of operations against an enemy force. You’ve got to trust each other, and they have absolutely done that, and they've trusted other nations to be part of this effort, even if it’s through support.

The second thing is they've done a great job of using “irregular forces." And I think those couple things there we can't discount on the battlefield. One of them is more the humanitarian side of it and then the other side of course, is how you effectively use your tactics, techniques, and procedures “irregularly” against an enemy to abate their advance and then neutralize it; and then counterattack that and regain the territory. And though as slow as that can be at times because it is irregular, combine that with the conventional Ukrainian forces, and you see that they are making some great strides.

I’ve seen it on the ground with a lot of the folks that we work with for humanitarian aid that are pushing in supplies in denied areas that may have been captured initially by the Russians but are now pulling back, those areas need supplies quicker than in other areas of Ukraine.

More at link.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I think you are confusing the Russian invasion of Ukraine with US politics.

War is the apex of the poitical pyramid ---- including in the US. 

[Hoodat]

War is the apex of the poitical pyramid ---- including in the US.

Politics is the study of power.  War is the consequence of weakness.

[DCPatriot]

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/05/putin_is_fighting_the_war_he_chooses.html

Putin is Fighting the War He Chooses
By Ernest Sipes

As I returned from Ukraine a few days ago after my first post-COVID reporting trip and after a couple days of letting my aging bones resume their proper position after the trauma of 10 hours in an economy-class airline seat, I do believe I have gained some insight into the logistics of this conflict after all.

Which I have to say I initially doubted.

During those three weeks in Ukraine, I was present for missile attacks in two cities, sat wide-eyed through dozens of artillery barrages, spent hours discussing the war with a wounded Ukrainian soldier on a 17 hour train ride from Lviv to Dnipro in a small train cabin, visited with serving members of the Ukrainian army, photographed many wrecked buildings in the eastern part of the country and ate borscht so many times that I believe I can now identify the recipe differences between Dnipro and Lviv

continued at above link...

[Kamaji]

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/05/putin_is_fighting_the_war_he_chooses.html

Putin is Fighting the War He Chooses
By Ernest Sipes

As I returned from Ukraine a few days ago after my first post-COVID reporting trip and after a couple days of letting my aging bones resume their proper position after the trauma of 10 hours in an economy-class airline seat, I do believe I have gained some insight into the logistics of this conflict after all.

Which I have to say I initially doubted.

During those three weeks in Ukraine, I was present for missile attacks in two cities, sat wide-eyed through dozens of artillery barrages, spent hours discussing the war with a wounded Ukrainian soldier on a 17 hour train ride from Lviv to Dnipro in a small train cabin, visited with serving members of the Ukrainian army, photographed many wrecked buildings in the eastern part of the country and ate borscht so many times that I believe I can now identify the recipe differences between Dnipro and Lviv

continued at above link...

Then he makes very poor choices.  Russia has lost more soldiers than it lost in Afghanistan.  That will have long-term consequences to the Butcher of Ukraine.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Politics is the study of power.  War is the consequence of weakness.

Politics is more than the study of power --- it is the implementation of power.

War is the apex of the poitical pyramid.  It overshadows all other national issues and interests and bestows extra powers to the ruling government  over all aspects of the lives their citizens.

War is also the consequence of wrong choices, propaganda and group think.

[Kamaji]

Video nasty: Russian PoW's film shows cruelty and chaos as bungled Ukraine invasion crumbles, writes IAN BIRRELL

By IAN BIRRELL FOR THE DAILY MAIL
23 May 2022

 A Russian tank officer who was captured after one month fighting in Ukraine was found to have been filming a home movie about the invasion on his mobile phone.

The footage, in which he talks about comrades being turned into ‘scraps of meat’ and ‘mince’, offers an astonishing insight into Moscow’s spluttering invasion as his gun jams, his vehicle explodes and a raid on a Ukrainian military base goes wrong.

It was filmed by Yuri Shalaev – a 23-year-old lieutenant who trained at Moscow’s top military academy and was stationed in Chechnya before the war – in defiance of Kremlin orders to avoid using personal mobile phones on security grounds.

Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Kyiv’s interior ministry, says: ‘This is very rare since 95 per cent of the occupiers do not take their phones and if they do, very few of them have smartphones, since most come from poorer regions of Russia. It is significant since it shows the callous actions and chaotic military approach of the Russian forces.’

[VIDEO AT SOURCE]

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10847093/Russian-PoWs-film-shows-cruelty-chaos-bungled-Ukraine-invasion-crumbles-writes-IAN-BIRRELL.html

[Kamaji]

British warships could be sent in to protect freighters carrying crucial Ukrainian grain and break Putin's blockade of Black Sea ports that is threatening to cause a world food crisis

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
23 May 2022

Britain is co-ordinating with its allies on a potential plan to send warships to the Black Sea port of Odesa to offer a protective escort to ships exporting Ukrainian grain.

Lithuanian foreign minister Gabrielius Landsbergis said yesterday he had discussed the creation of such a 'protective corridor' from Odesa with British foreign secretary Liz Truss.

He also said a 'coalition of the willing', made up of NATO countries and other nations reliant on the grain such as Egypt, may be willing to commit military resources to bolster the protection and avert widespread food shortages.

The plan would see allied navies clear the area around the southern port of Russian mines before protecting freight ships carrying the vital produce from Putin's warships according to The Times.

Long-range missiles will also be deployed to deter any Russian attempts to sabotage the corridor.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10847419/Royal-Navy-escort-ships-carrying-Ukrainian-grain-Black-Sea.html

[Right_in_Virginia]

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/05/putin_is_fighting_the_war_he_chooses.html

Putin is Fighting the War He Chooses
By Ernest Sipes

As I returned from Ukraine a few days ago after my first post-COVID reporting trip and after a couple days of letting my aging bones resume their proper position after the trauma of 10 hours in an economy-class airline seat, I do believe I have gained some insight into the logistics of this conflict after all.

Which I have to say I initially doubted.

This is an article worth reading.  The author takes great pains to include photos, logistics and maps.  He is not pro-Russia and supports Ukraine's fight --- which makes his perspective all the more interesting. 

A bit more FTA:

Despite what the media is presenting, the army of the Russian Federation is not made up of rampaging Orcs who rape, murder and pillage. And they have not, as we are told, being bested in every contest with the Ukrainian army. Additionally, Moscow’s army is not exhausted and out of fuel, equipment and supplies. There have not been mass desertions from Russia’s army. What you are reading is the typical propaganda that always seems to show up in a war in this region. I saw the exact same thing and devices used in the 2008 South Ossetia War when I worked for the newspaper Georgia Today and that particular Russian Invasion was occurring.

Perhaps it is best to begin by being honest and recognize that Moscow is exercising (to some extent anyway) restraint in this action so far. I am not defending this endeavor, but this is the simple fact of the military situation as I perceive it.

If you accept that a decision has been made to only accomplish a relatively small set of specific goals as outlined above, it is easy to see that this is why there has been no out-and-out destruction of the infrastructure of Ukraine when it is well within the ability of Moscow to do so.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Jack Posobiec
@JackPosobiec

Notice the rhetoric shift

Now both the NY Times Editorial Board and Henry Kissinger at the WEF are both calling for a negotiated peace for Ukraine even it it means ceding territory to Russia

7:33 AM · May 24, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

[sneakypete]

Then he makes very poor choices.  Russia has lost more soldiers than it lost in Afghanistan.  That will have long-term consequences to the Butcher of Ukraine.

@Kamaji

And to add to the Kremlin's woes,the typical Russian citizen is MUCH better informed on what is going on in the world outside of Russia today than they ever were in the past.

[sneakypete]

Politics is more than the study of power --- it is the implementation of power.

War is the apex of the poitical pyramid.  It overshadows all other national issues and interests and bestows extra powers to the ruling government  over all aspects of the lives their citizens.


Well said!

War is also the consequence of wrong choices, propaganda and group think.

So are the consequences of not going to war when it is necessary. Both good and bad decisions have consequences.

[MOD3]

Stay on topic or else more posts will be removed.

[Kamaji]

@Kamaji

And to add to the Kremlin's woes,the typical Russian citizen is MUCH better informed on what is going on in the world outside of Russia today than they ever were in the past.

I certainly hope so. 

[Kamaji]

Russia launches all-out assault to encircle Ukrainian troops in twin cities straddling eastern river in battle which could determine the success or failure of Moscow's campaign

By Chris Pleasance for MailOnline
24 May 2022

Bloody battles are raging on Ukraine's eastern frontline today as Russia launches an all-out effort to surround and capture two key cities in the Donbas in what could prove a pivotal moment for Putin's war.

Heavy fighting is today underway to the south, west and north of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk - sister cities straddling the Donets River in Ukraine's industrial heartland, where it is thought thousands of Ukrainian troops are trying to hold the line against mounting assaults.

Lung-crushing thermobaric rockets were filmed pounding Lyman, 30 miles to the west of the cities, late Monday and into Tuesday as Moscow's forces stormed into the outskirts in an attempt to capture one of the last remaining Ukrainian stronghold on the eastern bank of the river, opening the way for a pincer movement to the south.

Meanwhile rockets were also pounding the cities of Bakhmut and Soledar as the Russian soldiers fought for control of the town of Vasylivka and captured Svitlodarsk - driving Ukrainian defenders back and moving the other arm of the pincer steadily northwards.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10850061/Ukraine-war-Russia-steps-attacks-encircle-twin-cities-Donbas.html