Ukraine 2

[Hoodat]

Certainly. You have consistently sided with the Communists in this, or perhaps just against Ukraine, frequently citing the false dichotomy that because the Ukrainians are not Communist, and in fact a small minority of the Ukrainian army (one unit) have claimed or been claimed to be Nazis, that all are Nazis. Another common theme is that because the career Russian puppets before Zelenskyy were corrupt and in bed with the Biden Family, that somehow means a person who was rich when he took office without having previously held any political position must be corrupt, too.(Which would make as much sense as saying because Obama was corrupt, Trump (also a rich guy and first time office holder) must be corrupt, too.)

Maybe the Nazi under the bed is the source of your angst, but frankly, the rare few who actually swallow that line of totalitarianism .  .  .  .

Well said, @Smokin Joe .  Every word.

[Cyber Liberty]

A Russian political science professor has claimed the war in Ukraine could simply be a 'rehearsal' for a bigger conflict, allowing Russia's military to test and compare its firepower with that of NATO.

I guess they failed the test?

[Kamaji]

If Ukraine is a rehearsal, they need more more rehearsal time.  They are not ready for opening night.

[Smokin Joe]

I guess they failed the test?

Even a failed experiment is a source of data.
Failure in Ukraine does not mean they will abandon their goals of seizing resources, from Ukraine or elsewhere, just that the plan will be modified before the next attempt.

[DefiantMassRINO]

If the Ruskies can't have Donbas/Ukraine, they'll use subversion and sabotage to keep Ukraine from succeeding.  It will be another one of Russia's frozen wars.

[Kamaji]

Even a failed experiment is a source of data.
Failure in Ukraine does not mean they will abandon their goals of seizing resources, from Ukraine or elsewhere, just that the plan will be modified before the next attempt.

True enough, just as much for NATO as for Russia.

[sneakypete]

Putin ally says the Ukraine war is a REHEARSAL for a bigger conflict between Russia and NATO and a 'learning experience'

 

Ok,it's good to know that other nations also have bat-shit crazy professors.

Even though this does NOT speak well for the future of the world,it's good to know we ain't alone.

[sneakypete]

....Even today, those who embrace Communism have been and are calling any opposition "Nazis". ......

 

@Smokin Joe

Joe,as I sure you are aware,the HISTORICAL FACT is that the Nazi's and the Communists were ALLIES when WW-2 began. In FACT,the Communists didn't break this pact until Russia was invaded by the Nazi's. Suddenly,overnight,their bestest goombas that they shared so much with,were evil villians!

The saddest part about this is that this FAR from being any sort of secret. I don't know about now,but it USED to be mentioned in every book about the history of WW-2 that was ever written. Yet,nobody even bothers to mention this today. Not even the politicians who claim to be anti-Communist.

 Why isn't it?

Professional courtesy?

[sneakypete]

 If there was some other paragraph you had a problem with, be more specific, and perhaps I can address your confusion.

@Smokin Joe  @Right_in_Virginia

I wish ya the best of luck on that one Joe,but I ain't optimistic about it.

Ya needed to throw in "We need to surrender to our Communist Masters and beg for mercy so they don't hurt us!" in every other sentence. That might have helped.

[sneakypete]

Lets hope there is truth in this. I think getting rid of Putin won't be very easy. He has been in power for a long time and in a country so corrupt that is no easy feat.

@bilo

The plain hard fact is the Communist leadership is NOT composed of lunatics. They may have nothing but contempt for the proletariat that they are supposed to be protecting,but the one basic truth is the  want themselves and their families to survive.

There is no way anyone with with a trace of sanity left can see Putin as anything but a threat to both them and to Russia.  They might be playing kissy-face in public and posing right at the moment,but you just KNOW they have to be whispering to each other when the microphones and cameras are off.

In fact,it is MY belief all this sudden whispering about Putin's health is proof they are setting the stage to have him removed for "health reasons." If they can get by with doing that,they MIGHT be able to continue to hold onto power. If they don't,they might end up finding their own wrinkled old asses backed up against a brick wall when "Russian Revolution,Part 2" becomes a reality.

The typical Russian of today is no where near as misinformed and ignorant to reality as their grandfathers were. No matter how hard you might try,you really can't block radio and tv signals from crossing your border.

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe

Joe,as I sure you are aware,the HISTORICAL FACT is that the Nazi's and the Communists were ALLIES when WW-2 began. In FACT,the Communists didn't break this pact until Russia was invaded by the Nazi's. Suddenly,overnight,their bestest goombas that they shared so much with,were evil villians!

The saddest part about this is that this FAR from being any sort of secret. I don't know about now,but it USED to be mentioned in every book about the history of WW-2 that was ever written. Yet,nobody even bothers to mention this today. Not even the politicians who claim to be anti-Communist.

 Why isn't it?

Professional courtesy?

I think it is because the latter day Communists who are trying to sell their crap think it would be a bad thing if people all over realized that there is only a few seconds of separation (as opposed to degrees) between the totalitarian National Socialists and the totalitarian Bolshevik (Stalinist) brand Marxists. They were both reading from the same totalitarian playbook and were busy divvying up Eastern Europe and (looting it), murdering millions along the way (well, until Hitler got greedy) .

Why, a history of that sort of camaraderie might give the Communists a bad name.

[Smokin Joe]

@bilo

The plain hard fact is the Communist leadership is NOT composed of lunatics. They may have nothing but contempt for the proletariat that they are supposed to be protecting,but the one basic truth is the  want themselves and their families to survive.

True that. They may be greedy, evil totalitarians who have no qualm about their opponents having unfortunate accidents, food additives, or feeling suicidal, but they will keep an iron grip on power, and do so in a cold and calculating, even diabolical manner.

There is no way anyone with with a trace of sanity left can see Putin as anything but a threat to both them and to Russia.  They might be playing kissy-face in public and posing right at the moment,but you just KNOW they have to be whispering to each other when the microphones and cameras are off.

If they can find some place or means to communicate without it being less than private.

In fact,it is MY belief all this sudden whispering about Putin's health is proof they are setting the stage to have him removed for "health reasons." If they can get by with doing that,they MIGHT be able to continue to hold onto power. If they don't,they might end up finding their own wrinkled old asses backed up against a brick wall when "Russian Revolution,Part 2" becomes a reality.

They have always been willing to throw one of 'their own' under the bus for survival and career advancement reasons. Look at Stalin's purges.

The typical Russian of today is no where near as misinformed and ignorant to reality as their grandfathers were. No matter how hard you might try,you really can't block radio and tv signals from crossing your border.

It depends on how well informed they actually are. Imagine only being able to get ABCNNBCBS on your teevee, and not having a shortwave set to listen to elsewhere... Even today, I would imagine there are limits to how well the average Russian is informed, but I would bet those so inclined have found means to determine when the government is really telling whoppers compared to ordinary every day lies.

[sneakypete]

 
It depends on how well informed they actually are. Imagine only being able to get ABCNNBCBS on your teevee, and not having a shortwave set to listen to elsewhere... Even today, I would imagine there are limits to how well the average Russian is informed, but I would bet those so inclined have found means to determine when the government is really telling whoppers compared to ordinary every day lies.

@Smokin Joe

I dunno about today,but I spent a couple of weeks in Russia right after the "collapse of communism". I spent this time visiting and talking with Russian "e-mail friends". One was a woman in her mid-30's whose father was an official "Hero of the Soviet Union" during WW-2,and working as a professor at some university in Moscow.

He was never around their luxurious (compared to the typical "Soviet Apartment") when I was there,and the reason was unspoken. Maybe he refused to be exposed to an American gangster,or maybe he was still afraid of what might happen to him if he was known to have been associating with an American. Don't know,don't really care.

What I do know is that both his daughter and his granddaughter had NO misgivings about either freedom or capitalism. I also know that their apartment was maybe 3 times the size of any other Russian apartment I visited,and they even had modern (Swedish) appliances from the GUM Department store,not the typical "Soviet" stuff seen in any other apartment I visited. Both the daughter and the granddaughter were pretty informed about life in the west,wanted more of it,and weren't hesitant about saying so.

The next time I visited I went to a Providence named "Yoshkar-Ola" and visited with a married couple who were both professors at the local college. The man's father had been a Colonel in the KGB,and he told me tales of how his father had the phones in his own apartment tapped to make sure there was no "wrong doing or wrong thinking and speaking" going on there that would get them into trouble. He taught electrical engineering. He also told me about how made his own radio and used to go up on the roof and listen to "Radio Free Europe" on his radio when his father wasn't home because he liked western rock music. In other words,he was both the son of a KGB Colonel,and a rebel.

His wife was a linguist that wrote and spoke several languages,including the almost extinct "Mari" language. The Mari were the original people that dominated that area until the Communists took over and moved everybody into the cities and made the cities all industrial areas. She was half-Mari.

I really freaked out when she sent me emails with photos of the Mari people. Would you believe birch-bark canoes,feathers in their hair,big "blade" noses,teepees, dark red skin?

The only people still speaking the Mari Language were a few Mari in Yoskhar-Ola,and a tribe in the remote parts of another European country whose name I can't remember at the moment,who were nomadic and herded reindeer. She would go there every summer and teach them how to read and write in Mari. She was one of the few people in the world that could read and speak the language.

She insisted the museum would be the first place we would visit when I got there,and I freaked out looking at the photos and the artifacts. As I have mentioned here before,I am 1/4 Tuscarora Indian,and my grandmother was full-blooded. I turned to her and said "Shit,you ain't nothing but an American Indian! Hello,CUZ!",which got a big laugh from her.

BTW,the Mari Museum is on the web now. I can't remember the URL,but you can just type "Mari Museum" into your search engine and find it. LOTS of photos and lots of info if that sort of thing interests you.

And all this was within 2 years of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Just imagine how informed the Russian people are today. Also,consider the fact that to the typical Soviet Citizen that had damn little privacy or consumer convenience items,the one thing they all had was pride in their personal accomplishments and knowledge,and being called "ignorant" was the biggest insult possible.

I only met one Russian citizen that was hostile to me in two trips there,and it was a old man still wearing his WW-2 medals on his cheap suit on the Moscow Subway. He ranted for a few minutes to me in Russian,and you could have heard a pin drop in that subway car. Being rude was in the same category to Russian as being ignorant/uninformed,and he was being rude in public. He received absolutely zero support from the other riders.

I did ALMOST have a little dust up with some newly rich Russian asshat in a new Mercedes that damn near ran over the daughter of the woman I was with when he ran a red light. I screamed a few obscenities at him and threw something that hit his car,and he stopped right in the middle of the intersection  and jumped out of his car. I guess his plan was to scream at or threaten me,but since I was running right at him,he decided to get back in his car and haul ass. Probably a good thing for both of us. I wouldn't have fared well in a Moscow lockup.

The Russian people know more about what is going on that our media is willing to admit.

[Smokin Joe]

@sneakypete From what I could see, there were some similarities between the Mari and the Natives of the Northeast US. By the time you get out to the plains, a different lifestyle because of different resources. Longhouses give way to wikiups, dugouts, and tipis, and instead of applique on the clothing, it was more quillwork, elk teeth, and bone until the white man started trading beads for fur. A notable exception, the Mandan Earthlodges, which are the oldest known 'permanent' structures in North Dakota, AFAIK, and likely there were shell and even a few copper ornaments here and there before the white man came. (Copper mined as native copper metal in Northern Michigan).  Trade routes were phenomenal and it is amazing what made it from north to south, and east/west in the way of stuff. With those traveling salesmen, no doubt some gene pools got altered a mite, too, which is healthy for any small band.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete From what I could see, there were some similarities between the Mari and the Natives of the Northeast US. By the time you get out to the plains, a different lifestyle because of different resources. Longhouses give way to wikiups, dugouts, and tipis, and instead of applique on the clothing, it was more quillwork, elk teeth, and bone until the white man started trading beads for fur. A notable exception, the Mandan Earthlodges, which are the oldest known 'permanent' structures in North Dakota, AFAIK, and likely there were shell and even a few copper ornaments here and there before the white man came. (Copper mined as native copper metal in Northern Michigan).  Trade routes were phenomenal and it is amazing what made it from north to south, and east/west in the way of stuff. With those traveling salesmen, no doubt some gene pools got altered a mite, too, which is healthy for any small band.

@Smokin Joe

Creating deeper gene pools was in everyone's best interest,so they didn't really take it personally. Knowing they were going to do the same thing to any tribe within striking range probably had something to do with it,too.

Besides,that was what passed for fun for most of the Indian tribes. Kinda like an "early NFL".

The plains tribes were the slackers of the Indian nations. Lazy bastards mostly followed the buffalo herds,unlike the eastern (maybe even the far western tribes?),that were big into farming as well as breeding animals for food.

I freely admit to knowing nothing about the tribes native to the left coast.

[Hoodat]

Ukraine says giant Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant can't supply Russia

Laurence Peter, BBC  |  14 hours ago

Ukraine has dismissed as "wishful thinking" Russia's plan to connect a giant Ukrainian nuclear power station to the Russian electricity grid.

Russian troops are occupying the sprawling Zaporizhzhia plant by the Dnieper River in southern Ukraine.

It is Europe's biggest nuclear plant. The Ukrainian staff are still operating it, but Russia has sent its own nuclear experts to monitor their work.

Russia's deputy prime minister has vowed to sell power from it to Ukraine.

Marat Khusnullin said Russia would integrate the Zaporizhzhia plant with Russia's energy system if Kyiv refused to pay for the plant's electricity.

Visiting Russian-occupied southern Ukraine on Wednesday he said "if the Ukrainian energy system is ready to receive [electricity] and pay for it, then we'll work, but if not - then the plant will work for Russia".  .  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61524376


Zaporizhzhia is not in either Luhansk or Donetsk.  So all this Russian propaganda talk of liberating Donbas is complete bullshit.

[Hoodat]

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe

Creating deeper gene pools was in everyone's best interest,so they didn't really take it personally. Knowing they were going to do the same thing to any tribe within striking range probably had something to do with it,too.

Besides,that was what passed for fun for most of the Indian tribes. Kinda like an "early NFL".

The plains tribes were the slackers of the Indian nations. Lazy bastards mostly followed the buffalo herds,unlike the eastern (maybe even the far western tribes?),that were big into farming as well as breeding animals for food.

I freely admit to knowing nothing about the tribes native to the left coast.

Well, it really was follow the herds or starve. I have had reports of some of the coulees here with patches of edible food that may have been 'helped along', where something was there to eat almost any time of year now growing wild, but establishing permanent enough residence for agriculture some place generally just meant starvation. The Mandan were an exception who lived along the river, and did establish permanent villages. Most of the rest, though only occupied a site/area seasonally.  Not so slack when you consider the distances involved, breaking camp fairly regularly, and setting the whole village back up. The river bottoms had the challenge of dealing with spring flooding, too. Small winter the Sioux wintered in the Black Hills on high ground (and trees!).

Many of the descendants became cowboys, but Buffalo do not lend themselves to domestication (danged ornery critters), and deer aren't much known for it around these parts. 

[Smokin Joe]

Ukraine says giant Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant can't supply Russia

Laurence Peter, BBC  |  14 hours ago

Ukraine has dismissed as "wishful thinking" Russia's plan to connect a giant Ukrainian nuclear power station to the Russian electricity grid.

Russian troops are occupying the sprawling Zaporizhzhia plant by the Dnieper River in southern Ukraine.

It is Europe's biggest nuclear plant. The Ukrainian staff are still operating it, but Russia has sent its own nuclear experts to monitor their work.

Russia's deputy prime minister has vowed to sell power from it to Ukraine.

Marat Khusnullin said Russia would integrate the Zaporizhzhia plant with Russia's energy system if Kyiv refused to pay for the plant's electricity.

Visiting Russian-occupied southern Ukraine on Wednesday he said "if the Ukrainian energy system is ready to receive [electricity] and pay for it, then we'll work, but if not - then the plant will work for Russia".  .  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61524376


Zaporizhzhia is not in either Luhansk or Donetsk.  So all this Russian propaganda talk of liberating Donbas is complete bullshit.

Tell me the one about how this is to 'save' Ukraine from the Nazis and not steal their resources (and sell them back to them). Either that or any story that begins with "Once upon a time..."

[mountaineer]

Since little or none of the latest $40 gazillion Congress has gifted Ukraine will go for the stated purpose of helping Ukraine, maybe the money should be managed by Samaritan's Purse, who actually spend money as advertised.

Franklin Graham
@Franklin_Graham
.@SamaritansPurse has airlifted 101 metric tons of medical supplies to Ukraine since the conflict began. Continue to pray for those our teams and medical staff are helping in Jesus’ Name.

9:37 AM · May 21, 2022

[sneakypete]

Well, it really was follow the herds or starve. 

@Smokin Joe

That's odd. I have heard rumors of stuff like corn and wheat being grown in the mid-west.

The eastern tribes were even growing tobacco and used it as trade goods.

I don't know,but am GUESSING some of the southern and south western tribes may have even grown some whacky tabaccy for fun and trade goods.

[mystery-ak]

May 21, 2022 4:02am EDT
Russia claims total control of Ukraine's Mariupol: 'complete liberation'
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called the Russian occupation of Ukraine 'temporary'
By Lawrence Richard | Fox News

Russia now claims Mariupol, Ukraine is entirely under its control following the surrender of Ukrainian forces from the Azovstal steel plant, according to a senior official in the Russian government.

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told President Vladimir Putin that Russia’s military saw the "complete liberation" of the Ukrainian port city, which has been at the center of the Ukraine-Russia War for several weeks. It is the tenth-largest city in the country, and the second-largest in the Donetsk region, where most of the fighting has taken place.

Mariupol also serves a strategic function as it is located on the Sea of Azov, which would provide Russia's homeland a direct route to its military forces in Crimea. Its fall, which could not be independently verified, would undoubtedly be Russia’s biggest victory in the current conflict. 

Russia’s state news agency RIA Novosti announced the city fell with the surrender of 2,439 Ukrainian fighters, a figure much larger than previously reported.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-claims-liberation-ukraine-mariupol

[sneakypete]

Russia's deputy prime minister has vowed to sell power from it to Ukraine.

@Smokin Joe

That's awful "white" of him. Probably won't even charge much more than 110 percent of what they charge everyone else. After all,the Ruskies have a war to pay for.

[mystery-ak]

 May 21, 2022 10:23am EDT
Zelenskyy says UN, Red Cross order Russia to take its 'mountains of corpses'
Zelensky says Ukrainian forces have 'broken' Russia's troops 'psychologically'
By Caitlin McFall | Fox News

    The United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross have directed Russian President Vladimir Putin to remove his "mountain of corpses," Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Saturday.

"They abandoned their military," Zelenskyy said in an interview with a Ukrainian news outlet. "They were dying, but they didn't care. Recently I was told that they are only now thinking about taking the corpses.

"When the war started…they used to pretend that there were no corpses," he continued. "The UN and the Red Cross said – take these bags away. Mountains of corpses of their military."

more
https://www.foxnews.com/world/zelenskyy-un-red-cross-russia-mountains-corpses

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe

That's odd. I have heard rumors of stuff like corn and wheat being grown in the mid-west.

The eastern tribes were even growing tobacco and used it as trade goods.

I don't know,but am GUESSING some of the southern and south western tribes may have even grown some whacky tabaccy for fun and trade goods.

Corn and wheat further south and in the southwest, but those folks lived in hogans and rock shelters and pretty much stayed in the same place, and the Mandan may have practiced agriculture. But for the tribes roaming the prairie, not so much (besides, you can only camp somewhere for so long--it doesn't take long to crap behind every tree in sight in North Dakota). They were more nomadic in nature, following traditional patterns to stay with Buffalo herds moving to fresh grazing, within their tribal lands--especially when they got a hold of horses (which left the dogs to do light pack work/guard duty).