Author Topic: Ukraine 2  (Read 99994 times)

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #500 on: May 17, 2022, 04:01:53 pm »
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

CNN is completely absurd. Like most US media, it essentially just operates as a repository for Ukraine government press releases -- which means it's now helping to obfuscate that the "outright Neo-Nazi" fighters have surrendered, and are in the custody of Russia




10:56 AM · May 17, 2022   Twitter Web App

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #501 on: May 17, 2022, 04:06:29 pm »
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

This is why you have to assume that pretty much everything coming out of “Western” media about the tactical progression of the war is a distortion. They’re operating within an impenetrable superstructure of ideology that prevents the NYT from labeling this a “surrender”

Quote
The New York Times
@nytimes· 17h

Breaking News: Ukraine ended its “combat mission” in Mariupol and said fighters were being evacuated, signaling that the battle at a steel plant was over. https://nyti.ms/3sIon9B

2:44 AM · May 17, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #502 on: May 17, 2022, 04:13:15 pm »

" i don't think the pope was involved in federal penitentiary service vehicles transporting the azovstal soldiers to a POW camp in russia"  (Video)


https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1526528654192304130

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Slightly difficult to frame this as a heroic triumph when you finally do away with the euphemisms



11:59 AM · May 17, 2022   Twitter Web App


Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #503 on: May 17, 2022, 04:19:36 pm »
We actually have something in common with Ukraine:  Patriots of both countries are called "Nazis." 

There appears to be no hope for any correction of this when even Briefers constantly call the Ukes Nazis.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #504 on: May 17, 2022, 04:37:48 pm »
We actually have something in common with Ukraine:  Patriots of both countries are called "Nazis." 

There appears to be no hope for any correction of this when even Briefers constantly call the Ukes Nazis.

Please, do NOT conflate Ukrainian nazis with American right wing conservatives ... ever.  It would demonstrate a dangerous misunderstanding of both.  While such a mistake would save the nazis, it would be a death blow to American conservatives.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #505 on: May 17, 2022, 04:39:52 pm »
We actually have something in common with Ukraine:  Patriots of both countries are called "Nazis." 

There appears to be no hope for any correction of this when even Briefers constantly call the Ukes Nazis.


:thumbsup:

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #506 on: May 17, 2022, 04:49:18 pm »
The Russians mis-appropriated the term "Nazi" to the Ukrainians as a propaganda tool to sell Putin's discretionary war of agression to Russian media's consumers.  Putin certainly couldn't call them Communists, because Putin is trying to re-create the Soviet Empire.

The casual politcally rhetorical use of the term "Nazi" normalizes the evil of the Hitler regime, diminishes the sacrifice of those who fought them, and cheapens the horrors they inflicted upon millions of people.
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #507 on: May 17, 2022, 04:53:12 pm »
The Russians mis-appropriated the term "Nazi" to the Ukrainians as a propaganda tool to sell Putin's discretionary war of agression to Russian media's consumers.  Putin certainly couldn't call them Communists, because Putin is trying to re-create the Soviet Empire.

The casual politcally rhetorical use of the term "Nazi" normalizes the evil of the Hitler regime, diminishes the sacrifice of those who fought them, and cheapens the horrors they inflicted upon millions of people.

Well put.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #508 on: May 17, 2022, 05:17:35 pm »
The Russians mis-appropriated the term "Nazi" to the Ukrainians as a propaganda tool to sell Putin's discretionary war of agression to Russian media's consumers.  Putin certainly couldn't call them Communists, because Putin is trying to re-create the Soviet Empire.

The casual politcally rhetorical use of the term "Nazi" normalizes the evil of the Hitler regime, diminishes the sacrifice of those who fought them, and cheapens the horrors they inflicted upon millions of people.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #509 on: May 17, 2022, 05:19:40 pm »
The Russians mis-appropriated the term "Nazi" to the Ukrainians as a propaganda tool to sell Putin's discretionary war of agression to Russian media's consumers.  Putin certainly couldn't call them Communists, because Putin is trying to re-create the Soviet Empire.

The casual politcally rhetorical use of the term "Nazi" normalizes the evil of the Hitler regime, diminishes the sacrifice of those who fought them, and cheapens the horrors they inflicted upon millions of people.

Ukraine was actually split in its support of nazi Germany in WW2. @DefiantMassRINO

The Western,  Ukrainian-speaking part of the country supported nazi Germany, considered them liberators and fought along side them, including in the the murder of Ukrainian Jews.    The Eastern, Russian-speaking part of the country fought with the Russian forces and considered them liberators.

The dynamics haven't changed much.  The Azov Battalion, which is the offspring of Ukraine's nazi battalions during WW2, is still virulently anti-Russia and Russia remains virulently anti-nazi.

 The Donbas region is still very pro-Russia ---- still speaking the language and since declaring independence from Kiev requesting/receiving Russian passports-----which is why the nazi Azov Battalion has enoyed slaughtering the citizens there for the past eight years.

Sometimes it helps to remember that WWII has really not ended for Europe ----







« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 05:43:49 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #510 on: May 17, 2022, 05:40:57 pm »
Their cards are face up on the table now. And their illusion of military capability has been laid bare for all to see. I wonder what China is thinking right now...

Don't go to war against the West.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #511 on: May 17, 2022, 05:47:02 pm »
Don't go to war against the West.

China's probably wondering when the US will declare bankruptcy.   :smokin:

Online mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #512 on: May 17, 2022, 05:53:30 pm »
This Russia-Ukraine war is so terrible, it can kill people for a second time!

Or maybe it just brings bad journalisming to light.  :pondering:

As expected, some are saying CNN never did this, it's fake.  :shrug:
« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 06:06:22 pm by mountaineer »
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #513 on: May 17, 2022, 06:11:25 pm »
Ukraine was actually split in its support of nazi Germany in WW2. @DefiantMassRINO

The Western,  Ukrainian-speaking part of the country supported nazi Germany, considered them liberators and fought along side them, including in the the murder of Ukrainian Jews.    The Eastern, Russian-speaking part of the country fought with the Russian forces and considered them liberators.

The dynamics haven't changed much.  The Azov Battalion, which is the offspring of Ukraine's nazi battalions during WW2, is still virulently anti-Russia and Russia remains virulently anti-nazi.

 The Donbas region is still very pro-Russia ---- still speaking the language and since declaring independence from Kiev requesting/receiving Russian passports-----which is why the nazi Azov Battalion has enoyed slaughtering the citizens there for the past eight years.

Sometimes it helps to remember that WWII has really not ended for Europe ----

These lies were debunked the last time they were posted.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #514 on: May 17, 2022, 06:23:51 pm »
This is typical of how Mother Russia treats Ukraine:


The 1941 NKVD Prison Massacres in Western Ukraine

During the German invasion of the USSR, the Soviet Secret Police (NKVD) brutally murdered between 10,000 and 40,000 political prisoners in Western Ukraine over the course of eight days, which sparked waves of ethnic violence following the German occupation of the region.

June 7, 2021

As the German army began its invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, Stalin ordered the Soviet Secret Service (NKVD) to “remove” the prison population in the USSR’s occupied territories rather than allow them to fall into German hands. This was largely accomplished through the mass murder of prisoners at various locations in Western Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, and Lithuania. The majority of the mass executions, later termed “the 1941 NKVD Prison Massacres” by local residents, occurred in Western Ukraine. Due to a lack of reliable sources, exact numbers are impossible to determine; however, historians estimate that the NKVD killed somewhere between 10,000 and 40,000 people in dozens of prisons over the course of eight days. The ethnic breakdown of casualties in Western Ukraine roughly corresponded to population demographics: 70 percent of the victims were Ukrainian, 20 percent Polish, and the remainder consisted of Jews and other nationalities.

Western Ukraine, which encompasses the historical regions of Transcarpathia, Eastern Galicia, Volhynia, northern Bukovina, and the western parts of Podolia, had been a part of Poland prior to the outbreak of World War II. Following the joint invasion of Poland by Germany and the Soviet Union in September 1939, Western Ukraine came under Soviet rule  .  .  .

.  .  .  The Soviet occupation of Western Ukraine was characterized by terror and repression as Stalin immediately embarked on a Sovietization drive that not only included the distribution and display of Soviet insignia and propaganda, but also involved a massive campaign against perceived “enemies of the state.” Due to Stalin’s fear of any national or anti-Soviet elements, hundreds of thousands of suspected political adversaries were arrested, imprisoned, deported to Siberia or Kazakhstan, or executed en masse between February and June 1940. Initial arrests and deportations focused on anti-communists, prewar Polish elites, civil servants, governmental officials, military officers, and Ukrainian nationalists. By April 1940, however, the NKVD began arresting a wide variety of people including family members of those previously convicted, as well as prominent doctors, engineers, lawyers, journalists, artists, university professors, teachers, merchants, and well-to-do farmers. Those that avoided immediate deportation or death sentences remained locked in NKVD prisons when the Germans launched their assault on the Soviet Union.

It is estimated that close to 140,000 political prisoners were being held in prisons throughout Soviet-occupied territories on the eve of Operation Barbarossa. Upon hearing news of the German invasion, the NKVD was ordered to evacuate and liquidate all political prisoners under evacuation order No. 00803.

In Western Ukraine the NKVD started to execute prisoners on the morning of June 23, regardless of whether they had been incarcerated for major offenses or were merely waiting to be questioned. In the central prison in the city of Lutsk, located in the northwestern oblast of Volyn, inmates were crowded and locked into small cells under the pretense of a large-scale evacuation. Shortly thereafter, NKVD officers called inmates by name into the courtyard, lined them up, and began throwing grenades at the group while Soviet tanks fired machine guns. A handful of survivors were then forced to spend the rest of the day digging graves and burying corpses until their overseers fled an advancing German unit. Casualty estimates from the Lutsk prison massacre vary based on sources, ranging from 1,500 to 4,000.  .  .

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine
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Offline Mod2

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #515 on: May 17, 2022, 06:26:54 pm »
Don't start. Consider this a warning.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #516 on: May 17, 2022, 06:28:26 pm »
Russia isn't anti-nazi; they are becoming the epitome of nazism - ethnologically nativist socialists/corporatists.

Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #517 on: May 17, 2022, 06:28:28 pm »
Ukrainian Insurgent Army

The Ukrainian Insurgent Army (Ukrainian language: Українська Повстанська Армія (УПА) , "Ukrayins’ka Povstans’ka Armiya", or UPA) was a large and well organized Ukrainian nationalist military and later partisan army that engaged in a series of guerrilla conflicts during World War II against Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, and both Underground and Communist Poland. The group was the military wing of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists — Bandera faction (the OUN-B), originally formed in Volyn (northwestern Ukraine) in the spring and summer of 1943. Its official date of creation is 14 October 1942,[1] day of Intercession of the Theotokos feast.

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army



Looks like Ukraine's resistance army fought BOTH the German nazis and the Soviet communists.  Go figure.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #518 on: May 17, 2022, 06:33:17 pm »
This is typical of how Mother Russia treats Ukraine:


The 1941 NKVD Prison Massacres in Western Ukraine

During the German invasion of the USSR, the Soviet Secret Police (NKVD) brutally murdered between 10,000 and 40,000 political prisoners in Western Ukraine over the course of eight day.

How would you have preferred the Russians had treated the German nazis and their Western Ukranian collaborators during WW2?

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #519 on: May 17, 2022, 06:34:52 pm »
The fact is, the Ukrainians did, in fact, initially see the Germans as liberators - not because the Ukrainians were nazis, but because the Russians were abominably evil and did vile and disgustingly cruel things to the Ukrainian populace - Holodomor, anyone - and the Germans were kicking the Russians out.

It was only later on that the Ukrainians learned, to their lasting lament, that the Germans were only slightly better than the Russians.

It says something about the inherent evil of the Russians that Ukrainians would have seen the German nazis as liberators.  That evil continues to this day.

Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #520 on: May 17, 2022, 06:42:18 pm »
At the beginning of 1941, Ukraine had a population of 41 million.  By 1945, the population was 27 million.  One in five Ukrainians lost their life in that four year span.  The remainder were forced to relocate.

The Soviets destroyed everything in their 1941 retreat.  What they didn't destroy, they stole.  Entire industries were disassembled brick by brick and relocated east of the Urals.  Of the Ukrainian conscripts called up in Summer 1941 (beginning at age 16), only 3% survived.  Russia was every bit an enemy to Ukraine as was Germany, perhaps even more so.  And no country suffered more during all of WWII than did Ukraine.

https://guideme.com.ua/10-facts-about-ukraine-in-the-second-world-war/
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #521 on: May 17, 2022, 06:44:49 pm »
How would you have preferred the Russians had treated the German nazis and their Western Ukranian collaborators during WW2?

By "Western Ukrainian collaborators", you mean the Ukrainians that were fighting for Poland against Germany in 1939 while Stalin was allied with Hitler?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #522 on: May 17, 2022, 06:48:32 pm »
The fact is, the Ukrainians did, in fact, initially see the Germans as liberators - not because the Ukrainians were nazis, but because the Russians were abominably evil and did vile and disgustingly cruel things to the Ukrainian populace - Holodomor, anyone - and the Germans were kicking the Russians out.

It was only later on that the Ukrainians learned, to their lasting lament, that the Germans were only slightly better than the Russians.

It says something about the inherent evil of the Russians that Ukrainians would have seen the German nazis as liberators.  That evil continues to this day.

Let's not minimize the inherent evil of the willing collaboration by Western Ukranians with the goals of Nazi Germany.  Had Western Ukraine wanted to repel Nazi Germany, they would have had Russia's military help.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #523 on: May 17, 2022, 06:51:24 pm »
By "Western Ukrainian collaborators", you mean the Ukrainians that were fighting for Poland against Germany in 1939 while Stalin was allied with Hitler?

No.  I refer to the Western Ukranians who joined with Nazi Germany in the killing of Ukranian Jews and fighting against Russia's victory.

Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #524 on: May 17, 2022, 06:57:43 pm »
Had Western Ukraine wanted to repel Nazi Germany, they would have had Russia's military help.

lol
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-