Author Topic: Ukraine 2  (Read 98665 times)

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Offline berdie

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1825 on: August 02, 2022, 08:51:37 pm »
Russia wants to bully Europe.


Russia wants Europe, China wants Asia and Iran will take the ME.

Nothing to worry about...just move on.

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1826 on: August 02, 2022, 09:37:22 pm »
Biden’s Ukraine Blame-Laying Effort Enters a New Phase

National Review by Jimmy Quinn 8/2/2022

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bidens-ukraine-blame-laying-effort-enters-a-new-phase/

Thomas Friedman reports, based on conversations with senior administration officials: “Privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky — considerably more than has been reported.”

Perhaps those conversations are now taking place to a degree previously unknown, but those in Kyiv have understood for several weeks now that President Biden is preparing to blame them if the war effort collapses. In fact, he already started to do so in June, as I reported at the time:

    Senior Ukrainian officials believe that President Biden is ramping up an effort to fault Kyiv for failing to heed his pre-invasion warning about Russian war plans — and thus deflect from his administration’s own inability to deter the invasion, a former U.S. official who speaks regularly with top Ukrainian officials told National Review.

More at link.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1827 on: August 02, 2022, 09:44:03 pm »
Russian Army Turns Ukraine’s Largest Nuclear Plant Into a Military Base

Land mines and missile launchers are deployed at Zaporizhzhia, as cameras and instruments go dark and workers are held for ransom

Drew Hinshaw and Joe Parkinson  |  July 5, 2022  |  11:41 am ET

The Russian army is transforming Europe’s largest nuclear power plant into a military base overlooking an active front, intensifying a monthslong safety crisis for the vast facility and its thousands of staff.

At the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant in southern Ukraine, more than 500 Russian soldiers who seized the facility in March recently have deployed heavy artillery batteries, and laid anti-personnel mines along the shores of the reservoir whose water cools its six reactors, according to workers, residents, Ukrainian officials, and diplomats. The Ukrainian army holds the towns dotted on the opposite shore, some 3 miles away, but sees no easy way to attack the plant, given the inherent danger of artillery battles around active nuclear reactors.

The new infusion of weaponry effectively shields the plant from a counterattack by Ukrainian forces, and amounts to something the carefully regulated atomic-energy industry has never seen before: The slow-motion transformation of a nuclear power station into a military garrison. In a lesser-scrutinized aspect of its war strategy, the Russian army is day-by-day positioning the weaponry around a nuclear plant that is among the world’s largest, using it to cement control of the front line where their advance through southern Ukraine ground to a halt.

Russian forces deployed a Smerch artillery vehicle last month in the shadow of the 5.7 gigawatt complex’s striped chimneys, adding to the grad rocket launchers, tanks and personnel carriers. The earth around the plant is carved with trenches, with military guard dogs stationed out of a makeshift kennel. Senior technicians from Rosatom, Russia’s state atomic energy corporation, have set up a base in a guarded bunker beneath the plant.

“They are keeping it like a base for their artillery," said a European official posted to the nearby city of Zaporizhzhia, which remains in Ukrainian control. “They understand that Ukraine will not answer their attacks from the plant."

Ukrainian defense officials said that even if their forces could mount a conventional military effort to recapture the plant, they are focused on pushing a counteroffensive to the northeastern and southern cities of Kharkiv and Kherson.

“It seems like this is one of the Russian tactics, to take critical infrastructure and use it as a shield," said former Ukrainian Defense Minister Andriy Zagorodnyuk. “We’re not going to storm the plant….The only way to do it would be to surround it, to take the surrounding areas, and ask them to leave."  .  .  .

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-army-turns-ukraines-largest-nuclear-plant-into-a-military-base-11657035694
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1828 on: August 02, 2022, 09:47:52 pm »
Russia is firing artillery from a captured nuclear power plant, leaving Ukraine reluctant to shoot back

Marianne Guenot  |  Aug 1, 2022, 9:25 AM


Russian troops are firing artillery at Ukrainian targets from a nuclear power plant, breaking another norm of war, The New York Times reported.

The war's aggressor selected the Zaporizhzhia site because it made it difficult for Ukrainian troops to retaliate, Ukrainian officials told The Times.

Russian forces have been firing at Nikopol, a Ukrainian town across the river from the plant, since mid-July, The Times said.

The capture of the Ukrainian nuclear power plant in March caused international outrage, as the fighting led to a fire on the site that raised fears the integrity of the nuclear reactors could be threatened.

The invasion of Ukraine marks one of the first times nuclear infrastructure has been in the line of fire during heavy conflict.

Ukrainian troops have hesitated to retaliate for fear that their strikes may hit one of Zaporizhzhia's six reactors or its stored nuclear waste.

"How can we respond?" Col. Serhiy Shatalov asked The Times. "This is a nuclear site."  .  .  .

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-fires-artillery-from-nuclear-plant-ukraine-cant-shoot-back-2022-8
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1829 on: August 02, 2022, 09:50:57 pm »
Using Nuclear Reactors for Cover, Russians Lob Rockets at Ukrainians

Andrew Kramer  |  July 31, 2022 at 9:01 pm


NIKOPOL, Ukraine — Along most of the front line in Russia’s war in Ukraine, when one side lets loose with an artillery attack, the other shoots back.

But not in Nikopol, a city deep in southern farm country where the Ukrainian military faces a new and vexing obstacle as it prepares for a major counteroffensive: a nuclear power station that the Russian army has turned into a fortress.

Nikopol, controlled by the Ukrainians, lies on the west bank of the Dnieper River. On the opposite bank sits a gigantic nuclear power plant — Europe’s largest — that the Russian army captured in March. The Russians have been firing from the cover of the Zaporizhzhia power station since mid-July, Ukrainian military and civilian officials said, sending rockets over the river at Nikopol and other targets.

It is, in effect, a free shot. Ukraine cannot unleash volleys of shells in return using American-provided advanced rocket systems, which have silenced Russian guns elsewhere on the front line. Doing so would risk striking one of the six pressurized water reactors or highly radioactive waste in storage. And Russia knows it.

“They are hiding there so they cannot be hit,” said Nikopol Mayor Oleksandr Sayuk. “Why else would they be at the electrical station? To use such an object as a shield is very dangerous.”

Residents have been fleeing Nikopol because of the dangers of both shelling and of a potential radiation leak. And those who remain feel helpless, as if they are targets in a shooting gallery.

“We are like condemned prisoners who must just stand still and be shot at,” said Halyna Hrashchenkova, a retiree whose home was hit by Russian artillery. “They shoot at us, and there is nothing we can do.”  .  .  .

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/using-nuclear-reactors-for-cover-russians-lob-rockets-at-ukrainians/
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1830 on: August 02, 2022, 09:53:29 pm »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1831 on: August 02, 2022, 09:59:07 pm »
Using Nuclear Reactors for Cover, Russians Lob Rockets at Ukrainians


Bu-bu-but....I was told everybody does that, even the US.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1832 on: August 02, 2022, 10:13:15 pm »
Quote
Russia has the 11th largest GDP in the world, and is dropping like a rock in that perspective. There are a number of countries in the EU that have stronger economies.  Why won't these folks manage the Russian threat? 

@catfish1957

Don't know,don't care. What I care about is America,and the future of our lives without a Communist Russia starting guerilla wars all over in an attempt to take down the west,which requires us to send soldiers to help that 3rd world nation defeat the communists.

I am worried about the lives of American military members.

I am worried about the future security of not only America,but of the whole damn world.

You can crawl into your little isolationist hut and pretend to be superior,but all that proves is your ignorance.

What I find hilarious, is your (rightful) hatred of "W", and his and his dim complicit lackeys who thrust the concept of NWO and nation building on us, while wasting trillions of dollars from our treasury.  And still........

You continue to help perpetuate this concept.  Because.....   Guess who gets to rebuild Ukraine after this is over?

I wish the Ukranian people all the best, and hope they continue to beat the Russians back.  But....   Not on my dime.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1833 on: August 02, 2022, 10:14:56 pm »
Are you saying for the US military our commitment to fight for victory "depends" on politics @sneakypete   ----- and that *you* support this?

@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah,compared to you and selfish,cowardly creatures like you,I happen to live in the real world.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1834 on: August 02, 2022, 10:16:10 pm »
Fixed for accuracy.

@Hoodat

 :amen:

Thanks for the corrections.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1835 on: August 02, 2022, 10:19:50 pm »
For the most part, it's a generational divide @sneakypete    Half the nation came of age during or after the fall of the Berlin Wall, Reagan's victory in the Cold War, and Glasnost/Perestoika.  For them, "Dr. Strangelove" is not a documentary.

Russia has morphed from a one dimensional totalitarian state to a multi-dimensional European nation state more in line with those prior to the establishment of the EU.  Russia's interests are Russia first ----- but that does not automaticlly translate into global tyranny  --- which, BTW, is now the charter of the WEF and Brussels and our actual best interest to stop.

Russia wants to be an economic player in Europe, and by extension, on the world stage.  Yet, no one asks why it's so important that we stop this by draining our treasury, interfering on behalf of a non-NATO country and fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian.

@Right_in_Virginia

Speaking of being blind because you are not willing to see!

What color is the sky on your home planet?

Do you NOT know ANYTHING about history OR human nature?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1836 on: August 02, 2022, 10:21:05 pm »
Russia wants to bully Europe.

@Hoodat

Correction.

Russia wants to bully the whole planet and turn it into a communist police state.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1837 on: August 02, 2022, 10:22:49 pm »
Biden’s Ukraine Blame-Laying Effort Enters a New Phase

National Review by Jimmy Quinn 8/2/2022

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bidens-ukraine-blame-laying-effort-enters-a-new-phase/

Thomas Friedman reports, based on conversations with senior administration officials: “Privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky — considerably more than has been reported.”

 

@Elderberry

BEST damn news I have heard in weeks. Maybe longer.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1838 on: August 02, 2022, 10:35:51 pm »
.  .  .   
Senior Ukrainian officials believe that President Biden is ramping up an effort to fault Kyiv for failing to heed his pre-invasion warning about Russian war plans — and thus deflect from his administration’s own inability to deter the invasion, a former U.S. official who speaks regularly with top Ukrainian officials told National Review.

They’re furious about this new rhetorical tack, according to the source, because they believe that the White House declined to take meaningful action to deter the Russian assault in late 2021 and earlier this year…

During remarks at a Democratic fundraiser Friday in Los Angeles, Biden reportedly said that Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky failed to listen to his warnings about the imminent Russian invasion. “Nothing like this has happened since World War II. I know a lot of people thought I was maybe exaggerating,” he said, according to an Associated Press report. “But I knew we had data to sustain” the prediction that Putin “was going to go in, off the border.” He added, “There was no doubt, and Zelensky didn’t want to hear it.”…

Joe Biden is a sick POS.  He is the one who has been trying to tie Zelenskiy's hand behind his back this entire time.  Biden trusts Zelenskiy when it comes to handing over a few billion dollars to pay hospital workers and government bureaucrats.  But when it comes to the think that Zelenskiy really requested - weapons, Biden suspects Zelenskiy may do something heinous with them, like using them against Russia.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1839 on: August 02, 2022, 10:40:01 pm »
Why Is the White House Quietly Griping about Zelensky Now?

JIM GERAGHTY  |  August 2, 2022 9:28 AM


Which Biden administration official is leaking to the New York Times’ Tom Friedman that the White House doesn’t trust Volodymyr Zelensky?

The timing could not be worse. Dear reader: The Ukraine war is not over. And privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky — considerably more than has been reported.

And there is funny business going on in Kyiv. On July 17, Zelensky fired his country’s prosecutor general and the leader of its domestic intelligence agency — the most significant shake-up in his government since the Russian invasion in February. It would be the equivalent of Biden firing Merrick Garland and Bill Burns on the same day. But I have still not seen any reporting that convincingly explains what that was all about. It is as if we don’t want to look too closely under the hood in Kyiv for fear of what corruption or antics we might see, when we have invested so much there. (More on the dangers of that another day.)

Your mileage may vary, but I see two possible motives here. Possibility one is that the Biden administration just wants the Ukraine-Russia war to end, and Zelensky isn’t playing ball, so the administration is getting ready to leave Zelensky hanging out to dry. Possibility two is that the administration foresees the Ukraine-Russia war going badly, and is preparing to use Zelensky as a scapegoat. They’re laying the groundwork to argue, “we did everything we could to help the Ukrainians defend themselves, but in the end, they were too incompetent, too corrupt, and too beset by infighting.”  .  .  .

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-is-the-white-house-quietly-griping-about-zelensky-now/
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1840 on: August 02, 2022, 11:51:00 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

Do you NOT know ANYTHING about history OR human nature?

I do @sneakypete  --- about both.  I also have the abilities to observe and think, and I can do both dispassionately.

Worldviews change with generations, Pete.  Few who came of age during and after the celebrated fall of communism in Europe view today's Russia as a global Soviet threat. 

Your worldview is understandable ---- you came of age during the height of the Soviet threat.  You fought the commies in Vietnam. Your worldview is now part of your DNA.

But, Germany moving past its subjugation wars and Japan past hers to become respected and influential global players prove times change, and so can nations.  FWIW,  I doubt any WWII vet saw this coming ---  and I suspect they weren't very happy about it.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1841 on: August 02, 2022, 11:52:37 pm »
Bu-bu-but....I was told everybody does that, even the US.

By whom @Cyber Liberty ?

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1842 on: August 02, 2022, 11:53:51 pm »
Biden’s Ukraine Blame-Laying Effort Enters a New Phase

National Review by Jimmy Quinn 8/2/2022

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bidens-ukraine-blame-laying-effort-enters-a-new-phase/

Thomas Friedman reports, based on conversations with senior administration officials: “Privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky — considerably more than has been reported.”

Perhaps those conversations are now taking place to a degree previously unknown, but those in Kyiv have understood for several weeks now that President Biden is preparing to blame them if the war effort collapses. In fact, he already started to do so in June, as I reported at the time:

    Senior Ukrainian officials believe that President Biden is ramping up an effort to fault Kyiv for failing to heed his pre-invasion warning about Russian war plans — and thus deflect from his administration’s own inability to deter the invasion, a former U.S. official who speaks regularly with top Ukrainian officials told National Review.

More at link.
Say what? Do they mean flacid warnings about a 'minor incursion'?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1843 on: August 02, 2022, 11:54:38 pm »
I do @sneakypete  --- about both.  I also have the abilities to observe and think, and I can do both dispassionately.

Worldviews change with generations, Pete.  Few who came of age during and after the celebrated fall of communism in Europe view today's Russia as a global Soviet threat. 

Your worldview is understandable ---- you came of age during the height of the Soviet threat.  You fought the commies in Vietnam. Your worldview is now part of your DNA.

But, Germany moving past its subjugation wars and Japan past hers to become respected and influential global players prove times change, and so can nations.  FWIW,  I doubt any WWII vet saw this coming ---  and I suspect they weren't very happy about it.
Worldviews may change, but human nature does not, else the Bible would be irrelevant in a generation.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 01:29:41 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1844 on: August 02, 2022, 11:55:34 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah,compared to you and selfish,cowardly creatures like you,I happen to live in the real world.

Pull up @sneakypete   Pull up.   :laugh:

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1845 on: August 03, 2022, 12:17:11 am »
I do @sneakypete  --- about both.  I also have the abilities to observe and think, and I can do both dispassionately.

Worldviews change with generations, Pete.  Few who came of age during and after the celebrated fall of communism in Europe view today's Russia as a global Soviet threat. 

Your worldview is understandable ---- you came of age during the height of the Soviet threat.  You fought the commies in Vietnam. Your worldview is now part of your DNA.

But, Germany moving past its subjugation wars and Japan past hers to become respected and influential global players prove times change, and so can nations.  FWIW,  I doubt any WWII vet saw this coming ---  and I suspect they weren't very happy about it.

@Right_in_Virginia

Human nature doesn't change. If someone is "wired at birth" to be greedy and evil,greedy and evil he or she will be for their entire lives.

If you would be honest with yourself,you are terrified of going to war with Russia,and you just can't admit it. Most likely,not even to yourself.

There are "crossroads" in history that sometimes appear,and you are worse than a damn fool if you don't take advantage of them when they appear.

We are now,for the first time since the invention of sailing ships,in a position to make the entire freaking world a better and a safer place.

This is TRULY a unique situation because if the world can eliminate Russia as a potential threat to world peace,that only leaves China,and China WILL begin to fall apart within months if Putin and his pals in the politburo are given the "hard boot" and replaced with people living in the 21st Century.

Hell,I am even beginning to suspect that the whole Cold War thing was a creation of the professional political class because it gave them SOOOO much additional power,and that power led to MUCH easier access to bribe money,starting with the unions,and going all the way up to the current occupant of the WH.

You seem to believe it is better to hide under your bed and pretend it has nothing to so with us. Not even in the "Global World" of today.

None are so blind........

And people like you hide under your beds and hope it doesn't happen.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1846 on: August 03, 2022, 12:21:02 am »
Pull up @sneakypete   Pull up.   :laugh:

@Right_in_Virginia

You are right. Other than the future of both America and the rest of the world,there is nothing to get excited about when an opportunity to get a dangerous enemy to all of mankind removed from office,and POSSIBLY replaced with someone who WASN'T a career Soviet spy.

Hell,if you can't trust a former career Colonel who spend his entire life up to a few years ago trying to figure out how to conquer all free nations and turn them into police states,who CAN you trust?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1847 on: August 03, 2022, 12:23:36 am »
Worldviews may change, but human nature does not, else the Bible would be irrelevant n a generation.

Beautiful!
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1848 on: August 03, 2022, 12:44:26 am »
@Right_in_Virginia

Human nature doesn't change.

I think you may be confusing human nature with what someone is taught @sneakypete  You and your generation were taught ---- with every news report, every spy novel, every movie, every TV show ---- about the evils of the Soviets.  Back between the 50s and 70s this was likely in our best geopolitical interest.

Then came Ronald Reagan and the slaying of the Soviet Union and comminism in Europe ---- without firing a single shot  ----  ushering in one of the most consequential global paradigm shifts of the 20th Century.   We, as a nation, are still struggling to come to terms with it.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1849 on: August 03, 2022, 12:51:21 am »
@Right_in_Virginia

Hell,if you can't trust a former career Colonel who spend his entire life up to a few years ago trying to figure out how to conquer all free nations and turn them into police states,who CAN you trust?

To this end @sneakypete your time just might be better spent focusng on Klaus Schwab and Joe Biden.