Author Topic: Ukraine 2  (Read 100197 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,481
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1450 on: July 09, 2022, 09:57:22 pm »
Hey gang! This thread is getting dangerously  lose to why we closed the last one.  Cool it!
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,022
  • Gender: Female
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1451 on: July 09, 2022, 10:02:04 pm »
First, there is nobody here who thinks that the Southern Border is not a disaster and that something should be done about it, but the only person who can effectively do something about it is Biden, who has chosen not to do anything about it.

Accordingly, your complaints should be addressed to him, not to anyone here.

Secondly, as @Hoodat so kindly points out, you are persistently engaging in the logical fallacy of ginning up a false dilemma.  It is not a choice of either/or, both need to be addressed, and you have gone beyond the point of charity with your fixation on that false dilemma.

So, no, you can mosey on up to the White House and address your false dilemma to the person who could do something about it, and stop pretending that you are so much more moral than everyone else here who doesn't see things exactly the same way you do.

False dilemma?  Definitely not and no, I have NEVER pretended to be more moral than anyone else. Stop antagonizing and pointing fingers; look at yourself. This thread seems to get hijacked by you with your attacks on others.

 :hijack: 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,117
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1452 on: July 09, 2022, 10:02:52 pm »
False dilemma?  Definitely not and no, I have NEVER pretended to be more moral than anyone else. Stop antagonizing and pointing fingers; look at yourself. This thread seems to get hijacked by you with your attacks on others.

 :hijack: 


:rolleyes:

Offline Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,630
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1453 on: July 09, 2022, 10:44:17 pm »
Ukraine to receive 1.7 bln USD from int’l donors: PM

By Xinhua News Agency

https://www.macaubusiness.com/ukraine-to-receive-1-7-bln-usd-from-intl-donors-pm/

Ukraine will receive 1.7 billion U.S. dollars in grant aid from international donors, Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said Saturday on Telegram.

The money will be channeled to Ukraine through a single-donor trust fund set up by the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, the International Development Association and the U.S. Agency for International Development, Shmyhal said.

The funds will be used to cover Ukraine’s budget expenditures on medical services under a medical guarantee program.

Kiev plans to raise 20 billion dollars in international aid from its Western partners by the end of 2022, said Ukrainian Finance Minister Serhiy Marchenko at a public event last month.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,028
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1454 on: July 09, 2022, 10:45:50 pm »
9999hair out0000  Stop the absurd and continuous flow of money to the Ukraine ad secure OUR darn border instead!!!
How about letting us know how much actual aid has gone to the Ukraine and how much has been gobbled up along the way. My bet is that Ukraine is only getting a fraction of the funds claimed to be allocated, promised, etc.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,028
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1455 on: July 09, 2022, 10:48:35 pm »
OK? So what? If they had given Trump the money to "secure America" instead of Ukraine, the grift would still exist. Trump knew that. So, do we want to spend the grift in Ukraine? Or do we want to spend the grift and the gain in America? Your answer is empty and void.
We don't know for certain, but I would bet that the majority of that grift IS being spent in America.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,022
  • Gender: Female
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1456 on: July 09, 2022, 11:07:27 pm »
How about letting us know how much actual aid has gone to the Ukraine and how much has been gobbled up along the way. My bet is that Ukraine is only getting a fraction of the funds claimed to be allocated, promised, etc.

"Commitments" have been promised, Congress has approved billions...yes I get that a lot of the money probably never made it -- I believe at least some of it is lining the pockets of Joe & Company.

But, in the same light, we can't even get a 'commitment' out of Congress to secure our borders ....  though there was the Secure Fence Act of 2006 and here we sit.

Certainly the actions of our gov't isn't America first.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2022, 11:09:19 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,630
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1457 on: July 09, 2022, 11:09:17 pm »
Trench warfare, precision missiles and armed motorcycle units: Why the war in Ukraine looks increasingly anachronistic

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/why-the-war-in-ukraine-looks-increasingly-anachronistic/

Brand new HIMARS are sharing the field with World War I-style trenches and repurposed old motorcycles.

This week the Pentagon announced it was sending even more advanced munitions to Ukraine’s military. The $400 million package strengthens its artillery capabilities, even as the war in Ukraine is increasingly looking like a conflict from the past. Despite the advanced missile systems pouring into the country, the two armies are fielding old tanks, beaten up cars mounted with new cannons and deploying tactics from the early 20th century, not the 21st. That weaponry and armor have become more important than ever since the initial Russian push failed and the war has turned into artillery slugfests and trench warfare.

Ukraine has received a steady stream of ever-more-advanced weaponry from NATO member states. Those started with Javelin and Stinger anti-air and anti-tank missiles, to large 155mm howitzer cannons, to most recently the high mobility artillery rocket systems, or HIMARS. These have drastically increased Ukraine’s ability to meet the larger Russian army in battle.

This past week the United States announced it was sending four more HIMARS, a 50 percent boost from eight to 12. The U.S. has stressed that the HIMARS aren’t being used to strike inside of Russia, just at Russian forces in Ukraine’s territory. The weapons were already a game changer – as the name suggests, they can fire multiple rockets in one salvo, but the platforms are also highly maneuverable allowing them to relocate and attack quickly. Ukraine quickly put them in the field once they arrived late last month.

More at link.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,028
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1458 on: July 09, 2022, 11:11:25 pm »
"Commitments" have been promised, Congress has approved billions...yes I believe you are correct that a lot of the money never made it -- I believe at least some of it is lining the pockets of Joe & Company.

Heck, we can't even get a 'commitment' out of Congress to secure our borders ....  though there was the Secure Fence Act of 2006 and here we sit.
We cannot get this administration to uphold our own laws in regards immigration and border security. Short of a regime change, that will remain the same. Frankly, I hope enough of all the claimed aid is getting to Ukraine to make a difference.


Every Soviet Russian tank destroyed is one NATO forces will not confront directly later.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,022
  • Gender: Female
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1459 on: July 09, 2022, 11:20:26 pm »
We cannot get this administration to uphold our own laws in regards immigration and border security. Short of a regime change, that will remain the same. Frankly, I hope enough of all the claimed aid is getting to Ukraine to make a difference.


Every Soviet Russian tank destroyed is one NATO forces will not confront directly later.

The corruptness around the globe continues as the plans for the 'Great Reset' unfold here and abroad.

Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline bilo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,340
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1460 on: July 10, 2022, 12:33:17 am »
We cannot get this administration to uphold our own laws in regards immigration and border security. Short of a regime change, that will remain the same. Frankly, I hope enough of all the claimed aid is getting to Ukraine to make a difference.


Every Soviet Russian tank destroyed is one NATO forces will not confront directly later.

That sums it up pretty nicely!

An additional benefit from aiding Ukraine is Russia's demise will be accelerated. They will not be able to rebuild their military to where it was before and the USA will no longer need to be in NATO. European nations are finally seeing the light and committing to rebuilding their military's. How many BILLIONS will we save by pulling out of Europe?
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,028
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1461 on: July 10, 2022, 01:04:27 am »
The corruptness around the globe continues as the plans for the 'Great Reset' unfold here and abroad.
Yes, it does, and if it were not for Ukraine, those who are robbing us blind would have a different excuse.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,049
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1462 on: July 10, 2022, 01:38:33 am »
But, in the same light, we can't even get a 'commitment' out of Congress to secure our borders ....  though there was the Secure Fence Act of 2006 and here we sit.

Certainly the actions of our gov't isn't America first.

Your complaint is valid.  However, this does not mean that Ukraine should be abandoned just because of a totally unconnected issue.  The two are not related.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,049
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1463 on: July 10, 2022, 01:41:31 am »
Every Soviet Russian tank destroyed is one NATO forces will not confront directly later.

Correctamundo.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline 240B

  • Lord of all things Orange!
  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,507
    • I try my best ...
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1464 on: July 10, 2022, 02:41:42 am »
Correctamundo.
Correcta ... or Correcto
depending if or not if the person you are speaking to is mentally deranged.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,049
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1465 on: July 10, 2022, 05:20:13 am »
'We see them as brothers in arms here': UK training thousands of Ukrainian recruits in England

Deborah Haynes  |  21h ago  04:08


The UK has started turning thousands of Ukrainian recruits into frontline soldiers at four bases across England, safe from Russian missile fire, it can be revealed.

The new troops, operating in groups of about 200, are arriving from Ukraine daily to join a specially-condensed training programme offered by British soldiers. They will then return home to fight Russia’s invading forces.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-live-lysychansk-donetsk-putin-12541713?postid=4136378#liveblog-body
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,049
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1466 on: July 10, 2022, 05:35:08 am »
'I overcame my fear a long time ago. I have only rage left' - resistance and escape under occupation

Collaborate or resist and risk your life? Do you escape and say goodbye to your community? These are the dilemmas you're faced with living in occupied Ukraine. This is the story of one man grappling with these questions, a plight faced by millions of Ukrainians.

Kieran Devine  |  10 July 2022 02:26, UK

Whenever Oleksiy was planning a trip from his home in the occupied region of Kherson, he would come prepared with a "legend" for the journey, a persona that helped him avoid suspicion at Russian checkpoints.


He found playing the character of an elderly Russian farmer worked best.

He brought props to back up his story - a flashdrive loaded with Russian songs he could play in his van, a shovel, and a tractor's licence. The fact he was born in Russia certainly helped him too.

It was useful during the three months under occupation while he ran errands helping his community, including delivering groceries and distributing medicine.  .  .


.  .  .  Having grown up in Russia, Oleksiy might be the type of Ukrainian that Vladimir Putin expected to give his troops a warm welcome. His reaction to the invasion and his resistance shows just how wrong the Russian president was.

"I overcame my fear a long time ago. I have only rage left."

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-i-overcame-my-fear-i-have-only-rage-left-resistance-and-escape-under-occupation-12646536



Good read.



If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline bilo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,340
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1467 on: July 10, 2022, 04:14:43 pm »
Your complaint is valid.  However, this does not mean that Ukraine should be abandoned just because of a totally unconnected issue.  The two are not related.

I know you know this, but it's all a smoke screen on their part.

A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,049
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1468 on: July 10, 2022, 08:43:50 pm »
Apartment block destroyed after Russian rocket strike

3 hours ago


At least 15 people have been killed and about 20 more are feared buried under rubble after Russian rockets struck an apartment block in Chasiv Yar, a town in eastern Ukraine, officials have said.

One side of the five-story building was ripped apart, leaving a mountain of rubble. Chasiv Yar is near the city of Kramatorsk, in the Donetsk region.

Dozens of emergency workers are still searching for people beneath the piles of concrete and rubble, assisted by a bulldozer and a crane.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-62116232
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,049
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1469 on: July 10, 2022, 08:47:57 pm »
Russian rockets kill 15 in Chasiv Yar housing block, Ukraine says

5 hours ago

At least 15 people have been killed and about 20 more are feared buried under rubble after Russian rockets struck an apartment block in Chasiv Yar, a town in eastern Ukraine, officials say.


Five victims have been brought out alive. The death toll was given by a Ukrainian emergency services official.

One side of the five-storey building was ripped apart, leaving a mountain of rubble. Chasiv Yar is near the city of Kramatorsk, in Donetsk region.

Donetsk is the focus of a Russian push.

The region's governor Pavlo Kyrylenko said the destruction was caused by Russian Uragan rockets. . .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62113185

If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,049
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1470 on: July 10, 2022, 08:49:20 pm »

Chasiv Yar: Bodies were recovered from the devastated apartment block
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,049
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1471 on: July 11, 2022, 04:49:45 am »
Ukraine soldiers arrest corrupt cop outside Kharkiv who was shaking down locals for cash.


If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,117
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1472 on: July 11, 2022, 12:32:33 pm »
'Twelve of Putin's officers are killed' in strike on command post in occupied Kherson as 'Vladimir is enraged by failure of his S-400 defence system' while US-supplied HIMARS missiles inflict critical losses

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
11 July 2022

Twelve Russian officers are thought to have been killed in a single rocket strike as Ukraine's armed forces inflict punishing losses with American-supplied weapons.

The attack targeted a command post in at Chornobaivka Airport, near the occupied southern city of Kherson, and is rumoured to have killed at least one general and one colonel. It is thought to have been carried out using US HIMARS rockets.

Video shows what appears to be an ammunition dump at the base exploding, as Russian Telegram channels report Putin is infuriated at the inability of Russia's S-400 anti-air systems to protect his armed forces.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11001617/Twelve-Putins-officers-killed-Ukraine-strike-Russian-command-post.html


Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,049
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1473 on: July 11, 2022, 12:38:21 pm »
Quote
 Russian Telegram channels report Putin is infuriated at the inability of Russia's S-400 anti-air systems to protect his armed forces.

If Putin gave a damn about protecting his armed forces, then he would get them the hell out of Ukraine.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Kamaji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,117
Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1474 on: July 11, 2022, 04:56:04 pm »
Don’t call him President Putin, call him ‘our ruler’: Kremlin allies urge title change for Russian despot

By JAMIE PHILLIPS FOR MAILONLINE
10 July 2022

Kremlin allies have called for Vladimir Putin to be addressed as the country's 'Ruler' rather than his current title 'President'.

The Liberal Democratic Party (LDPR) has suggested the use of Pravitel, a Russian title, as it is more befitting of Putin's status and role.

The right-wing party has 22 seats out of the 450 in the country's parliament and is currently used by the Kremlin to gently float its more radical ideas and garner evidence on their popularity.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11000857/Dont-call-President-Putin-call-ruler-Kremlin-allies-urge-title-change.html