Author Topic: BREAKING LIVE: Supreme Court Vote to END Roe v Wade in DRAFT OPINION by Justice Samuel Alito Leaked  (Read 17231 times)

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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No, decisions were returned to the states, however each state makes those decisions. In some states, the state’s constitution is independently construed by the state’s court to protect a right to abortion, and in the one states, the courts will overrule and legislation to the contrary.
You need to understand that the people means the states, and the legislatures thereto whereby the people are represented, when Scotus made their pronouncement regarding overturning Roe vs Wade.

Scotus acknowledged that the courts are not the decision body.
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Online Kamaji

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You need to understand that the people means the states, and the legislatures thereto whereby the people are represented, when Scotus made their pronouncement regarding overturning Roe vs Wade.

Scotus acknowledged that the courts are not the decision body.

Ok chief. 
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Ok chief.
You seem unconvinced.

Maybe if reading the actual text of the opinion will clarify:

We now overrule those decisions and return that authority to
the people and their elected representatives.

https://www.nationalreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Dobbs_Opinion.pdf
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Kamaji

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You seem unconvinced.

Maybe if reading the actual text of the opinion will clarify:

We now overrule those decisions and return that authority to
the people and their elected representatives.

https://www.nationalreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Dobbs_Opinion.pdf

Yes, and if the people of a given state have previously added to their state constitution a provision that provides a right to abortion, then it is up to the state courts to enforce that provision.

Or are you now saying that, in addition to overruling Roe v. Wade the Supreme Court in Dobbs invalidated every state constitution to the extent that it provided a right to abortion?

And here I thought you were a states rights advocate, but that is hard left liberal grade fascism you’re advocating for if that is your belief.
#LetsGoBrandon!

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Yes, and if the people of a given state have previously added to their state constitution a provision that provides a right to abortion, then it is up to the state courts to enforce that provision.

Or are you now saying that, in addition to overruling Roe v. Wade the Supreme Court in Dobbs invalidated every state constitution to the extent that it provided a right to abortion?

And here I thought you were a states rights advocate, but that is hard left liberal grade fascism you’re advocating for if that is your belief.
Unsure of where you are heading but it is clear that the court found that the judicial system should not be involved when it comes to deciding to permit/deny abortions.  It is an issue left up to the people of a state by their representatives.

Why is that confusing to you?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Kamaji

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Unsure of where you are heading but it is clear that the court found that the judicial system should not be involved when it comes to deciding to permit/deny abortions.  It is an issue left up to the people of a state by their representatives.

Why is that confusing to you?

No, it did not. It found that the federal Constitution did not guarantee a right to abortion.  That is all it did.  It did not hold that no court, including a state court, could rule on the issue. 

I’m not sure why you seem unable to read a fairly clear court opinion,  or understand the basic federal structure of the US system, nor the federal governments role in it.

The one thing Dobbs most emphatically did not do is strip state courts of the power to hear matters relating to abortion.  For one thing, the Court has absolutely no power to do so. 
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Offline Bigun

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No, it did not. It found that the federal Constitution did not guarantee a right to abortion.  That is all it did.  It did not hold that no court, including a state court, could rule on the issue. 

I’m not sure why you seem unable to read a fairly clear court opinion,  or understand the basic federal structure of the US system, nor the federal governments role in it.

The one thing Dobbs most emphatically did not do is strip state courts of the power to hear matters relating to abortion.  For one thing, the Court has absolutely no power to do so.

FWIW, I think you two are talking past each other.  I don't think there is any disagreement at all. @Kamaji @IsailedawayfromFR
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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No, it did not. It found that the federal Constitution did not guarantee a right to abortion.  That is all it did.  It did not hold that no court, including a state court, could rule on the issue. 

I’m not sure why you seem unable to read a fairly clear court opinion,  or understand the basic federal structure of the US system, nor the federal governments role in it.

The one thing Dobbs most emphatically did not do is strip state courts of the power to hear matters relating to abortion.  For one thing, the Court has absolutely no power to do so.
I think we are closer than we think.

Scotus ruled that the Judicial System (Itself and all inferior courts) has no right to create a constitutional right to abortion as it did with Roe vs Wade.

It then said that the people (read citizens through its representatives in our Democratic Republic under the US and State Constitutions) have the right to decide whether there should be a right to abortion or not (read create a law or Constitutional Amendment).

Do not make this more convoluted and please do not say I said something when I did not.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Hoodat

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The Court ruled that the Great State of Mississippi does indeed have the right to establish it's own laws in regard to abortion.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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The Court ruled that the Great State of Mississippi does indeed have the right to establish it's own laws in regard to abortion.
It also said this as a result of the ruling.

Supreme Court orders lower courts to vacate rulings against pro-life laws
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,473913.msg2666624.html#msg2666624
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 12:56:17 am by IsailedawayfromFR »
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Kamaji

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I think we are closer than we think.

Scotus ruled that the Judicial System (Itself and all inferior courts) has no right to create a constitutional right to abortion as it did with Roe vs Wade.

It then said that the people (read citizens through its representatives in our Democratic Republic under the US and State Constitutions) have the right to decide whether there should be a right to abortion or not (read create a law or Constitutional Amendment).

Do not make this more convoluted and please do not say I said something when I did not.

The Supreme Court did not - and cannot - take away the power of a state court, acting under the aegis of that state's constitution, to find a right to abortion in that self-same state constitution.  To do so would be to arrogate to the Supreme Court precisely the authority the Court expressly disclaimed in Dobbs - the power to determine rights and restrictions on abortion as a matter of federal constitutional law.

It really is just that simple.  Thus, if the constitution of State A is interpreted by the highest court of State A to include a right to abortion, then State A and its residents have a right to abortion under the state constitution, even if the current legislature of State A would prefer it to be otherwise.
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