Do You Think Cars Were Built Better in the "Old Days"?

[roamer_1]

It will last a LOT longer than I do

@sneakypete

Yeah... Two different things. Longevity of the single use versus a longevity defined by a near inexhaustible ability to rebuild and repair...

New cars go three times as far... But then they are discarded. Can't be rebuilt.

That ol 79 of mine has gone a whole lot further. Easy half a million miles - Been rebuilt for so long that mileage ceased to be a factor. Heck, even it's year isn't real. There's parts on it from the sixties clean through the eighties.

The longevity that matters in the latter.
But the former has become endemic.

[sneakypete]

An inventor could 'rescue' the American public by re-introducing the 60's and 70's tech for automobiles.   

@DCPatriot

Won't work. All the stuff that kills their fuel mileage as well as their longevity is mandated by the feral goobermint.

Truth to tell,I fully expect them to pass a federal law forcing trucks like my GMC diesel off the road because they don't have any of that crap,and last for 300 to 400 thousand miles before they start giving you trouble. Mine is even the last year of the genuine Allison automatic transmission in GM trucks,so not even that will go bad.

I looked around hard to find a truck with the exact specifics I wanted,and even then couldn't find a white one,so mine is some sort of green or gray. Not sure which. Not good with colors.

Even then I had to drive 2000 miles to pick it up and drive it home. I rented a trailer to tow the Chev HHR I drove to buy it back home.

I paid 19 grand for it used with 95K miles on it,and can sell it any time I want for at least 5 grand more than I paid for it because a new one that requires the special fuel additive to run and has all that smog equipment is over 70 grand. Seriously.

That is a LOT of money for people to spend for a truck to do stuff like haul their horse trailers on weekends. Yeah,I see people driving the new ones around all the time that just use them for transportation and don't even have receiver hitches on them,but honestly don't know how they can justify spending that kind of money for something they don't really need that loses value every year even if you don't use it.

Hell,I even sold my 4 year old Chevy 4x4 crew cab pu for more than I paid for it a few months ago,and could have gotten more out of it but I sold it to a woman who has been a good friend of mine for years,and could afford to give her a break on the price. I WOULD say she qualifies as "Family",but don't want to slur her.

[Free Vulcan]

There's parts on it from the sixties clean through the eighties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uErKI0zWgjg

[roamer_1]

Won't work. All the stuff that kills their fuel mileage as well as their longevity is mandated by the feral goobermint.

Back in the day we built a 66 chevelle. Pretty hot little 300 horse 327, a Borg Warner 3 and over, with 3.08 posi.
Peppy. No smog crap. All old school.

And it got mileage comparable to modern cars. Over 25mpg on the highway. Sometimes closer to 30.

Too bad most of those parts can't be had these days.

Modern cars are not about mileage. They are about control.

[roamer_1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uErKI0zWgjg

 

[sneakypete]

VW recalled them and I bought the Passat.

@DCPatriot

I had a new Passant back in the 90's. Probably had the most comfortable leather bucket seats I ever sat in,and was crazy fast. Didn't take long to learn that if I wanted to pass the car in front of me,I needed to get in the left lane before I kicked in passing gear.

Decided to sell it when the dirt road leading to my house started flooding to the point water would have came into it if I tried to drive it somewhere,so I traded it in for a half-ton GMC Canyon pu. BAD move. Didn't have the power of a weak fart,and rode bad on top of it. Kept it maybe 6 months,and traded it in on a boxy Nissan 4 door that did have the ground clearance I needed. Kept that one a couple of years and then traded it in on something I can't remember. It was slightly more than adequate in every way,but great at nothing other than road clearance and load room. Can't remember the model name and Nissan no longer sells them.

[sneakypete]

A pickup without a stick is a waste of time.

Not altogether - Auto is nice on mountain roads for switching gears without losing power to the train... But I will always take a stick if I have the choice.

And a Muncie 465 costs hardly nothing to rebuild - IF you ever have to rebuild it ever (other than brass of course). You can't even give a new tranny the stink eye without it costing fifteen hundred bucks.

@roamer_1

Not really. Auto transmissions work a LOT better in slippery conditions,or in the mud and snow. I grew up learning how to drive on sand dunes and beaches,and the "beaters" we used to buy for nothing money or that were given to us to haul them off that had auto transmissions got stuck a LOT less,and were easier to drive out of holes without spinning the tires.

Not spinning the tires is the key to everything when it comes to not getting stuck,or pulling out of a hole.

[sneakypete]

I don’t know about better, but a car from the 40s, 50s and 60s were sexier than todays cookie cutter car styles.


But I’m still waiting for my George Jetson flying car.

@Gefn

You just THINK you are ready for flying cars.

Stop for a minute and think about the horrible driving skills and lack of attention you see in your fellow drivers. Do you REALLY want them flying around,where they can come at you from above and below,as well as front,rear,and side?

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Not really. Auto transmissions work a LOT better in slippery conditions,or in the mud and snow. I grew up learning how to drive on sand dunes and beaches,and the "beaters" we used to buy for nothing money or that were given to us to haul them off that had auto transmissions got stuck a LOT less,and were easier to drive out of holes without spinning the tires.

Not spinning the tires is the key to everything when it comes to not getting stuck,or pulling out of a hole.

@sneakypete
True for the uninitiated. I even admitted as much in that an auto is better coming down icy mountain roads = But only minimally... I can drive a stick just fine in mud and snow, and every other dang thing.

[Kamaji]

@Gefn

You just THINK you are ready for flying cars.

Stop for a minute and think about the horrible driving skills and lack of attention you see in your fellow drivers. Do you REALLY want them flying around,where they can come at you from above and below,as well as front,rear,and side?

@sneakypete

Ok, I think you just permanently cured me of any desire for a flying car!

[sneakypete]

Back in the day we built a 66 chevelle. Pretty hot little 300 horse 327, a Borg Warner 3 and over, with 3.08 posi.
Peppy. No smog crap. All old school.

And it got mileage comparable to modern cars. Over 25mpg on the highway. Sometimes closer to 30.

Too bad most of those parts can't be had these days.

Modern cars are not about mileage. They are about control.

@roamer_1

Yup!

When I came back to Bragg from Okinawa in 1968,I had plans to volunteer for VN so I  could get back to Okie after that tour. NOBODY sane wanted to stay at Bragg. Hell,I was so sure I would be going back to Okie that I left my new Triumph Bonneville and my Ducati flat track racer with a friend there to keep for me.

Anyhow,knowing I was only going to be there a few months,I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a car,so I bought a 60 Ford 2dr sedan with a 292,straight stick,radio,and heater. Car ran like a top and got 20-22 mpg on the highway,but nobody wanted a cheap car back then without options,so it went cheap. When I got back from VN,I traded it in (gave it away) to the local Ford dealer for a red 428 Torino Cobra Jet. Even that got pretty good highway mileage,but it would flat FLY. Cost a ton of money to get a tune up,though. The dealer had to remove the PS pump ,the bolts in the engine mounts,and then jack it up to get to 2 spark plugs to change them,and the tuneups didn't last long in the stop and go Bragg traffic,so I traded it in on a new Toyota Corolla. Got GREAT gas mileage,was as reliable as a rock,and I usually made enough money bracket racing it at the Fayetteville drag strip to make the payments.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Back in the day we built a 66 chevelle. Pretty hot little 300 horse 327, a Borg Warner 3 and over, with 3.08 posi.
Peppy. No smog crap. All old school.

And it got mileage comparable to modern cars. Over 25mpg on the highway. Sometimes closer to 30.

Too bad most of those parts can't be had these days.

Modern cars are not about mileage. They are about control.

All of mine lack onstar setups, GPS, or any of the myriad sensors that allow control. Granted, everything I have that is TBI or Fuel injected has a puter, and those could be shut down (in person) with some of the gee whiz stuff out there, but they can't be hacked from a remote location (by VIN) as I suspect others can.

The oldest don't have computers at all, and that is likely what will get me by if the SHTF.
While mileage will be important, to some extent, the invisibility will be more so.

[ironhorsedriver]

   I was a fanatical hot rodder in the 70's, had to constantly be upgrading my ride. But, I'm much older now. I have grown to love the luxury of not having to hold in the clutch at every intersection, of nice cool air on a hot day. Cruise control, hell yea. No more fiddling with a screwed up carb, fuel injection all the way. Disk brakes all around, big plus to me. Yea, I've gotten lazy in my old age, but I just can't wrench like I could once.

[roamer_1]

All of mine lack onstar setups, GPS, or any of the myriad sensors that allow control. Granted, everything I have that is TBI or Fuel injected has a puter, and those could be shut down (in person) with some of the gee whiz stuff out there, but they can't be hacked from a remote location (by VIN) as I suspect others can.

The oldest don't have computers at all, and that is likely what will get me by if the SHTF.
While mileage will be important, to some extent, the invisibility will be more so.

I will ALWAYS have an analog mountain truck... Even if I have to go to something newer and convert it back to analog... For the reason you gave, but also just for the necessity - Anything other than what is fatal anyway, I can fix in the sticks with tools onboard and parts onboard... And I have done exactly that more than once.

 

[Elderberry]

I will never get rid of my 53 Willys Jeep with its 350 and my 56 Chevy 3/4 ton straight 6. I just now need to breathe new life into the 75 454 Vette I'm storing for my son.

[Wingnut]

. Yea, I've gotten lazy in my old age, but I just can't wrench like I could once.

The simple task of a DIY Oil and filter change takes me two days to recover anymore..  The grunts and groans coming from under the car are loud enough that the neighbors come over and ask me If they should call 911. 

[roamer_1]

I will never get rid of my 53 Willys Jeep with its 350 and my 56 Chevy 3/4 ton straight 6. I just now need to breathe new life into the 75 454 Vette I'm storing for my son.

That would be a fun project. 

[sneakypete]

There are to indisputable facts that favor the cars from "the old days".

Anybody with little more than a basic understand of mechanics could generally repair whatever went wrong with them himself,and if he didn't know enough or have the tools,he usually had a neighbor that did and would be happy to help him  out.

If something major went wrong the typical home mechanic wasn't equipped or capable of fixing in the driveway,like a blown engine or transmission,there were plenty of junk yard around with modern wrecks they could buy the engines or transmissions from,and then do the swap the next weekend,right in their driveway.

Most of the people I know that used to work on their cars are bewildered when they raise the hood of a new one and see all the hoses and wires running all over the place,and realize they can't even SEE the engine.

This includes me. I used to build cars from the ground up,and now I just take them to a pro shop when something needs to be done. It's cheaper to do that than it is to buy all the specialty tools and test equipment needed to repair the new ones.

[DCPatriot]

There are to indisputable facts that favor the cars from "the old days".

Anybody with little more than a basic understand of mechanics could generally repair whatever went wrong with them himself,and if he didn't know enough or have the tools,he usually had a neighbor that did and would be happy to help him  out.

If something major went wrong the typical home mechanic wasn't equipped or capable of fixing in the driveway,like a blown engine or transmission,there were plenty of junk yard around with modern wrecks they could buy the engines or transmissions from,and then do the swap the next weekend,right in their driveway.

Most of the people I know that used to work on their cars are bewildered when they raise the hood of a new one and see all the hoses and wires running all over the place,and realize they can't even SEE the engine.

This includes me. I used to build cars from the ground up,and now I just take them to a pro shop when something needs to be done. It's cheaper to do that than it is to buy all the specialty tools and test equipment needed to repair the new ones.

    

[Elderberry]

I still try my best to do all my maintenance. The worst problem I've come across was with a 2001 CRV we picked up a few years ago. It was fine for a year and then it went spastic oscillating idle all over the place and throwing a code. I replaced the idle air control valve. No luck. And I checked everything pointed to online. Since I still had the old IACV I decided to try instead of a computer controlled valve, to replace it with a fixed air bypass orifice. So I ripped the guts out of the old valve and threaded one of the ports for an orifice. I started out with a homemade 1/8 in orifice. It immediately threw a code. I then realized it was expecting to communicate with the dang valve. So I plugged in the new valve I had bought and just hung it from the firewall. It ran fine but still threw a code. I opened up the orifice to 9/64. Bingo! No more code. Runs fine. Been driving it that way ever since.

[roamer_1]

There are to indisputable facts that favor the cars from "the old days".

Anybody with little more than a basic understand of mechanics could generally repair whatever went wrong with them himself,and if he didn't know enough or have the tools,he usually had a neighbor that did and would be happy to help him  out.

If something major went wrong the typical home mechanic wasn't equipped or capable of fixing in the driveway,like a blown engine or transmission,there were plenty of junk yard around with modern wrecks they could buy the engines or transmissions from,and then do the swap the next weekend,right in their driveway.

Most of the people I know that used to work on their cars are bewildered when they raise the hood of a new one and see all the hoses and wires running all over the place,and realize they can't even SEE the engine.

This includes me. I used to build cars from the ground up,and now I just take them to a pro shop when something needs to be done. It's cheaper to do that than it is to buy all the specialty tools and test equipment needed to repair the new ones.

I'll turn that around from the other direction a bit @sneakypete ...
I am more a tinker than a mechanic - I fix everything/anything. I especially like fixing weird things no one else would think to mess with. I love fixing smalls... Picking up some old piece of junk at some garage sale and bringing it back to its former working order... An old personal desk fan from the 50s, a jukebox, some ancient farm implement or tool... weird and wider ranging than your average mechanic.

In the course of such a thing, I have a tendency to orient toward folks of a kindred spirit in various fields of endeavor. I have a fair finger on the pulse of such folks.

And I can tell you, it is a dying art. Back when Hector was a pup, it was not uncommon to find a master working out of a fully outfitted shop in some 2 car garage. It was common to find such people. And they were good, seat-of-the-pants folks with an inherent knowledge and a raft of Snap-on or other fine tools in neat rows in multiple cabinets.

Those folks are not represented in society anymore.There are no young kids coming up with that in their blood. My younger son is one such, and he is very rare today. And it is a crying shame.

Back in the day, nearly every guy I knew had a side-hustle that was a labor of love - A shade tree mechanic, a back alley computer guy, some dude that just liked building and fixing go-carts and mini bikes... Anything and everything could be found in those garages out of the way of main street, and all it would take to tap that expertise was showing up with a friendly camaraderie, something to offer in the way of your own ability or specialty, and a cold pack of beer.

Such a far flung wealth of real world knowledge and it is nearly gone. Most kids today can't fix a damn thing they use, and don't have that inbuilt compass leading them to something they love to do. And that is just awful.

[DB]

I'll turn that around from the other direction a bit @sneakypete ...
I am more a tinker than a mechanic - I fix everything/anything. I especially like fixing weird things no one else would think to mess with. I love fixing smalls... Picking up some old piece of junk at some garage sale and bringing it back to its former working order... An old personal desk fan from the 50s, a jukebox, some ancient farm implement or tool... weird and wider ranging than your average mechanic.

In the course of such a thing, I have a tendency to orient toward folks of a kindred spirit in various fields of endeavor. I have a fair finger on the pulse of such folks.

And I can tell you, it is a dying art. Back when Hector was a pup, it was not uncommon to find a master working out of a fully outfitted shop in some 2 car garage. It was common to find such people. And they were good, seat-of-the-pants folks with an inherent knowledge and a raft of Snap-on or other fine tools in neat rows in multiple cabinets.

Those folks are not represented in society anymore.There are no young kids coming up with that in their blood. My younger son is one such, and he is very rare today. And it is a crying shame.

Back in the day, nearly every guy I knew had a side-hustle that was a labor of love - A shade tree mechanic, a back alley computer guy, some dude that just liked building and fixing go-carts and mini bikes... Anything and everything could be found in those garages out of the way of main street, and all it would take to tap that expertise was showing up with a friendly camaraderie, something to offer in the way of your own ability or specialty, and a cold pack of beer.

Such a far flung wealth of real world knowledge and it is nearly gone. Most kids today can't fix a damn thing they use, and don't have that inbuilt compass leading them to something they love to do. And that is just awful.

I think that is partly due to highly specialized electronics/hardware that is designed for a very specific function where you cannot "see" what's going on inside anymore. It is all buried in a chip or other mechanical device that really can't be taken apart and examined to see how it works in detail. When I grew up you could take apart and see how just about anything worked. You could also take those components and repurpose them to do something entirely different. In electronics that is long gone. It may be deadly to the future.

[DCPatriot]

Anybody that purchases an automobile that can be immediately rendered useless by a 3rd party is nuckin' futz!

"But we can stop/find your car if it's stolen"....no thank you, unless I am the one doing the disabling from my phone.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

My memory of my parents cars in the '60's was that 65K miles was about the shelf life, before it became a garage renter. 

OTOH, back when I had to drive to work, I ran up as much as 240K miles on one vehichle over 12 yrs, with, no major repairs.

Have had two Toyotas that did that.  Both manufactured and assembled in Japan.  Camry and 4Runner.

Was yours a Toyota as well?

[DB]

Have had two Toyotas that did that.  Both manufactured and assembled in Japan.  Camry and 4Runner.

Was yours a Toyota as well?

We had a Toyota Highlander Hybrid that made it to about 240,000 miles without replacing the battery. At around 200,000 miles it did have a motor controller failure but if I remember correctly it was a recalled device and it didn't cost us much to get it replaced.