Alas, the Best Outcome in Ukraine Now May be a Relatively Quick Russian Victory

[mystery-ak]

March 14, 2022
Alas, the Best Outcome in Ukraine Now May be a Relatively Quick Russian Victory
By Selwyn Duke

It’s hard finding an American, anywhere, who believes Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a good thing. I’m no exception. War is ugly, and innocent people suffer as the pseudo-elites play their geopolitical chess games driven by power-lust, pocketbook and politics. This also isn’t about rooting for the “good guys.” For Vladimir Putin cannot be counted among them, and, for that matter, neither can ex-actor and Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy or our globalist “leaders.” Rather, this concerns something else.

When I was on some medication a while back and wanted to take Benadryl as well, for a more frivolous reason, I hesitated because I couldn’t determine how the drugs would interact. I didn’t take the Benadryl; as someone close to me put it, “You don’t want to risk dying over something stupid.”

The same point could be made here as our leaders, who can’t even figure out what boys and girls are, and who tiptoe around WWIII in the backyard of the nation with the world’s largest nuclear weapons stockpile:

Do we really want to risk dying in an atomic holocaust over something stupid?

This isn’t emotion-driven fear-mongering. Trends forecaster BCA Research is predicting a 10 percent chance of a civilization-ending nuclear war within the next year — and I fear the probability may be greater still.

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https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/03/alas_the_best_outcome_in_ukraine_now_may_be_a_relatively_quick_russian_victory.html

[Kamaji]

[DefiantMassRINO]

Not for Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Finland, Romania, and Bulgaria.

[Hoodat]

By this same reasoning, the Russians should have stepped aside in 1941 and ceded control of everything west of the Urals to the same Germans who were bombing and killing civilians.  And the Brits should have called it quits when their cities were being bombed by the Luftwaffe.

[DB]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

-Edmund Burke

[Fishrrman]

Fishrrman's credo: (posted here many times)
Reality is what it is. It is not what we believe it to be.

I've generally stayed out of the Ukrainian threads.
However, I tend to agree with Right-in-Virginia.

The Crimea and the Donbas aren't worth World War 3.
Not to Europe... and certainly not to the United States.

Russia has occupied the Crimea since obama's regime. There was no war to "take it back" before March 2022. For all practical purposes, it's become ceded territory.

Those two provinces in Eastern Ukraine are filled with ethnic Russians who are overwhelmingly loyal to Russia, and not to the Ukraine. Might as well let them go. Ukraine will do just as well without them.
(I'd say exactly the same regarding California, it might as well be a foreign nation -- in fact I've been saying that in this forum for years).

Nevertheless, I don't advocate a Russian "victory".
Rather, a cease fire, after which the Russians draw back and a negotiated settlement hammered out between the two countries.

Time for Ukraine to "make its best deal" and save what's left.
Call this "realpolitik". Call it whatever you want.

Aside:
I don't think Taiwan is worth WW3, either.
We're going to have to make that choice before too much longer.

[Smokin Joe]

Patton was right.

[libertybele]

Fishrrman's credo: (posted here many times)
Reality is what it is. It is not what we believe it to be.

I've generally stayed out of the Ukrainian threads.
However, I tend to agree with Right-in-Virginia.

The Crimea and the Donbas aren't worth World War 3.
Not to Europe... and certainly not to the United States.

Russia has occupied the Crimea since obama's regime. There was no war to "take it back" before March 2022. For all practical purposes, it's become ceded territory.

Those two provinces in Eastern Ukraine are filled with ethnic Russians who are overwhelmingly loyal to Russia, and not to the Ukraine. Might as well let them go. Ukraine will do just as well without them.
(I'd say exactly the same regarding California, it might as well be a foreign nation -- in fact I've been saying that in this forum for years).

Nevertheless, I don't advocate a Russian "victory".
Rather, a cease fire, after which the Russians draw back and a negotiated settlement hammered out between the two countries.

Time for Ukraine to "make its best deal" and save what's left.
Call this "realpolitik". Call it whatever you want.

Aside:
I don't think Taiwan is worth WW3, either.
We're going to have to make that choice before too much longer.

I agree with most of what you are stating @Fishrrman -- the loss of innocent lives is absolutely heartbreaking and that needs to stop abruptly.

[Hoodat]

Nevertheless, I don't advocate a Russian "victory".
Rather, a cease fire, after which the Russians draw back and a negotiated settlement hammered out between the two countries.

Time for Ukraine to "make its best deal" and save what's left.

Russia has already shown that it will not honor a cease fire and that their position is non-negotiable.

For those who don't understand, 'non-negotiable' means that Russia is not willing to negotiate.  In other words, there is no such thing as a negotiated settlement.

And from what I can tell so far, the Ukrainian people aren't willing to accept that.  So as long as they are willing to fight, we should honor that by giving them the tools to fight with.  Seriously, why are people so willing to toss in the towel so early?

[Kamaji]

Russia has already shown that it will not honor a cease fire and that their position is non-negotiable.

For those who don't understand, 'non-negotiable' means that Russia is not willing to negotiate.  In other words, there is no such thing as a negotiated settlement.

And from what I can tell so far, the Ukrainian people aren't willing to accept that.  So as long as they are willing to fight, we should honor that by giving them the tools to fight with.  Seriously, why are people so willing to toss in the towel so early?

[Cyber Liberty]

I guess it depends on what the meaning of "best" is.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Hitler was not going to stop with the Saarland.
Stalin was not going to stop with Poland and the Baltics.
Putin will not stop with Ukraine.

Historically, Russia has been a landlocked nation desperate for warm water ports that are ice-free during Winter.  This has driven its war against Sweden to acquire St. Petersburg on the Baltic Sea, against the Ottoman Empire for Crimea on the Black Sea, and China/Japan for a Liaodong Peninsula port on the East China Sea.

Putin wants the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea to become Russian lakes for his navy.

[Hoodat]

Hitler was not going to stop with the Saarland.
Stalin was not going to stop with Poland and the Baltics.
Putin will not stop with Ukraine.

Historically, Russia has been a landlocked nation desperate for warm water ports that are ice-free during Winter.  This has driven its war against Sweden to acquire St. Petersburg on the Baltic Sea, against the Ottoman Empire for Crimea on the Black Sea, and China/Japan for a Liaodong Peninsula port on the East China Sea.

Putin wants the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea to become Russian lakes for his navy.

Russia has been desperate for an Indian Ocean port for decades.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Russia's quest for an Indian Ocean port was one of their alleged reasons for invading Afghanistan in 1980.

[Hoodat]

I guess it depends on what the meaning of "best" is.

Yep.  Particularly interesting is this premise: "Do we really want to risk dying in an atomic holocaust over something stupid?"

In other words, if Russia gets bogged down in Ukraine, then we're all going to die in a nuclear war.  So to remain safe, we should be helping Russia achieve their goals as quickly as possible.  Such utter nonsense.  We've been taught for the last half century that Mutual Assured Destruction is what keeps us safe from nuclear war.  But now I learn that it all comes down to Russia getting a quick victory over Ukraine.  Go figure.

By summer, it will be a quick victory over Estonia and Moldova that keeps us safe from nuclear war.  By fall it will be Latvia and Romania.  By winter, Lithuania and Bulgaria.  And each time, idiots like Selwyn Duke will be looking for Neville Chamberlain to save the day.

[Hoodat]

Russia's quest for an Indian Ocean port was one of their alleged reasons for invading Afghanistan in 1980.

Yep.  And that effort failed because the US sent weapons to the Afghans who were willing to fight against the Russians.  Meanwhile, the Ukrainians are left high and dry.

[Kamaji]

Yep.  Particularly interesting is this premise: "Do we really want to risk dying in an atomic holocaust over something stupid?"

In other words, if Russia gets bogged down in Ukraine, then we're all going to die in a nuclear war.  So to remain safe, we should be helping Russia achieve their goals as quickly as possible.  Such utter nonsense.  We've been taught for the last half century that Mutual Assured Destruction is what keeps us safe from nuclear war.  But now I learn that it all comes down to Russia getting a quick victory over Ukraine.  Go figure.

By summer, it will be a quick victory over Estonia and Moldova that keeps us safe from nuclear war.  By fall it will be Latvia and Romania.  By winter, Lithuania and Bulgaria.  And each time, idiots like Selwyn Duke will be looking for Neville Chamberlain to save the day.

One wonders just exactly how well the Russian nuclear arsenal would actually perform.  Just a thought experiment, of course.

The last Russian nuclear test was in 1990 (October 24, to be precise).  Source:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons_tests

We have just seen that the Russians have not been very good at maintaining their equipment - the failure of the tires on a variety of their equipment has been chalked up, not only to the tires being cheap Chinese knock-offs, but also to the fact that the tire pressurization systems were not properly cycled through, and the tires not rotated, resulting in premature tire failure.

Nuclear warheads have to be periodically "refreshed" as the fissile material they contain continuously decays.  If the Russians can't be bothered to properly maintain the tires on their army equipment, how likely is it that they've properly maintained their nuclear warheads?

[DefiantMassRINO]

I was born into the Cold War.  It was presumed that I would die in a nuclear holocaust or in the subsequent nuclear winter.

To fear Putin, is to surrender to Putin.

[Kamaji]

I was born into the Cold War.  It was presumed that I would die in a nuclear holocaust or in the subsequent nuclear winter.

To fear Putin, is to surrender to Putin.