Ukraine should settle with Russia-promise not to join NATO

[mikezpen]

The West has shown Ukrainians that it is naive, spineless and greedy. Ukraine can not count on it.We promised them in 1991 that they would be protected if they signed over their nukes to Russia. You see how that worked out. Now, the "sanctions," which have come en masse as soon a Putin invaded instead of dribbling into existance, leave open the trading for oil and gas. America can supply Europe's needs as can the Middle East. A boycott of oil and natural gas would hurt Russia terribly. But no.

Ukraine should meet with Russia and see what it want to stop the invasion. It should promise the Russians that it won't join NATO or enter into any other military agreement with Western Europe or America.Maybe that will stop the war.Anyway, the West can't be counted on; Ukraine loses nothing.

[Kamaji]

Generally agree.  Ukraine should strive to become a latter-day Switzerland of Eastern Europe.

[Mod2]

Moved to appropriate category.

[DB]

Russia has destroyed millions of lives over the last 50 years.

Russia should not dictate terms to its neighbor's period.

Hopefully this is Putin's last adventure. Pour supplies into Ukraine and make it hell for the Russians to the point that they cannot recover.

[libertybele]

The West has shown Ukrainians that it is naive, spineless and greedy. Ukraine can not count on it.We promised them in 1991 that they would be protected if they signed over their nukes to Russia. You see how that worked out. Now, the "sanctions," which have come en masse as soon a Putin invaded instead of dribbling into existance, leave open the trading for oil and gas. America can supply Europe's needs as can the Middle East. A boycott of oil and natural gas would hurt Russia terribly. But no.

Ukraine should meet with Russia and see what it want to stop the invasion. It should promise the Russians that it won't join NATO or enter into any other military agreement with Western Europe or America.Maybe that will stop the war.Anyway, the West can't be counted on; Ukraine loses nothing.

I disagree.  Ukraine surrenders everything if they give into Russia and allows Putin to dictate to them.  No the U.S. can't be counted on; that was blatantly evident with the pull out of Afghanistan.

[Wingnut]

I disagree.  Ukraine surrenders everything if they give into Russia and allows Putin to dictate to them.  No the U.S. can't be counted on; that was blatantly evident with the pull out of Afghanistan.

Yup.  With friends like America you don't need enemies.

[Kamaji]

I disagree.  Ukraine surrenders everything if they give into Russia and allows Putin to dictate to them.  No the U.S. can't be counted on; that was blatantly evident with the pull out of Afghanistan.

If Ukraine doesn't come to some modus vivendi with Russia -which is not necessarily the same as Putin - then Russia will eventually take over Ukraine, simply through numbers.

[DB]

If Ukraine doesn't come to some modus vivendi with Russia -which is not necessarily the same as Putin - then Russia will eventually take over Ukraine, simply through numbers.

Maybe. Maybe not. If the Ukrainians want to fight for their continued independence then the rest of the world should arm them well and make Russia pay a heavy cost.

[Kamaji]

Maybe. Maybe not. If the Ukrainians want to fight for their continued independence then the rest of the world should arm them well and make Russia pay a heavy cost.

At the end of the day, they will not have independence unless they forswear NATO.  Nonalignment hasn't been too bad for Switzerland, why wouldn't it be good for Ukraine?

[DB]

At the end of the day, they will not have independence unless they forswear NATO.  Nonalignment hasn't been too bad for Switzerland, why wouldn't it be good for Ukraine?

Because Russia won't honor it. What Russia claims is just pretense to justify what they want. They want Ukraine's resources, particularly the oil wealth and a return of their glory days empire. Either they are held in check or they will take it.

[christian]

The Russians-Putin told us just two areas of contention were the problem,the Russian military machine moved in and went for the while nations fall. Now Putin changes his rhetoric/excuses,he could fit right in with our democrats or vs a vie.  Snakes that achieved their objectives, WILL TURN AND BITE YOU.

[mikezpen]

People are dreaming if they think Ukraine can win a long war with Russia. The only way that could possibly happen is if Putin is overthrown.

Ukraine should promise not to join the EU or NATO if Russia gets out.And, it w/probably have to give up its disputed provinces-Donbass However it should NEVER "demilitarize"Maybe Russia wouldn't keep such an agreement, and Biden IS a weakling. But I don't see what else Ukraine can do.

[jafo2010]

Too late for Ukraine to settle for anything.  To use a roker term, Putin is all in, and he is not going to settle for anything.  I suggest NATO feed Ukraine with everything they need that enables Ukraine to push Russia out and begin a march on Belgorod, where Russia is launching serious weaponry,  and level the city of all its military ability.

And then tell Russia to settle by pulling out of Crimea totally, including the closure of the five Russian military bases that go back decades.  Russia must be made to pay.  And for those that have Russian ancestry in Ukraine, they need to go to Russia itself if they think it so great.

[sneakypete]

I disagree.  Ukraine surrenders everything if they give into Russia and allows Putin to dictate to them. No the U.S. can't be counted on; that was blatantly evident with the pull out of Afghanistan.

@libertybele

Have you lost your freaking mind?

WHAT were we accomplishing in Shitstainistan,other than emptying our treasury and getting American military members killed or maimed for life?

Other than making investors in defense industry suppliers even richer,that is?

We should NEVER enter into ANY war without the intent to win the damn thing.

ALL "fighting to create a draw" does is get our military members killed or maimed for life while enriching those who supply the military.

We should NEVER get involved in a shooting war unless we fully intend to win the damn thing!

[sneakypete]

At the end of the day, they will not have independence unless they forswear NATO.  Nonalignment hasn't been too bad for Switzerland, why wouldn't it be good for Ukraine?

@Kamaji

I am in complete agreement.

[sneakypete]

People are dreaming if they think Ukraine can win a long war with Russia. The only way that could possibly happen is if Putin is overthrown.

 

@mikezpen

I strongly suspect the planning for that is already in the works. Putin has no embarrassed Russia's status as an international power that there is just no way he can continue to hold power. Not even if he is eventually successful in Ukraine.

The Politburo are probably working on a plan to remove him while saving Russian face at the same time. Or maybe even already have one worked out.

[libertybele]

@libertybele

Have you lost your freaking mind?

WHAT were we accomplishing in Shitstainistan,other than emptying our treasury and getting American military members killed or maimed for life?

Other than making investors in defense industry suppliers even richer,that is?

We should NEVER enter into ANY war without the intent to win the damn thing.

ALL "fighting to create a draw" does is get our military members killed or maimed for life while enriching those who supply the military.

We should NEVER get involved in a shooting war unless we fully intend to win the damn thing!

No @sneakypete   My point was that the U.S. cannot be counted on -- Joe ruined any relationship that we had with our allies during the pullout of Kabul.

I firmly agree -- the US should NEVER get involved in a war unless we fully intend to win -- I'm talking boots on the ground.  I firmly believe that we should NOT get involved any further than we are with Ukraine (the Russo-Ukraine conflict has been ongoing for 8 years).  We have given them billions and we should not close the skies for them, nor should we send our troops over to help.

Secondly, we know that Joe made deals with Poroshenko, who knows what deals he's made with Zelenskyy and Putin.

Joe, Milley and Austin are weak and I don't trust that their judgement of getting us further involved will be positive.

[sneakypete]

Secondly, we know that Joe made deals with Poroshenko, who knows what deals he's made with Zelenskyy and Putin.
 

@libertybele

EVERYBODY knows that Slow Joe and his entire damn family are whores for sale to the highest bidder. The Dims don't care because the Dim voters think they are going to get a cut via "free stuff". Yes,I really DO believe most are THAT freaking stupid!

The Dim pols approve because they KNOW that THEY are going to get a cut. Or at least the ones in leadership roles will,anyhow.

The Dimocratic Party is NOT a political party. It is a crime organization.

Not that the Republican Party is guilt-free,but they are magnitudes more patriotic and honest than the Dims are,who are ALL whores for hire.