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Ukraine should settle with Russia-promise not to join NATO
Wingnut:
--- Quote from: libertybele on February 27, 2022, 08:48:29 pm ---I disagree. Ukraine surrenders everything if they give into Russia and allows Putin to dictate to them. No the U.S. can't be counted on; that was blatantly evident with the pull out of Afghanistan.
--- End quote ---
Yup. With friends like America you don't need enemies.
Kamaji:
--- Quote from: libertybele on February 27, 2022, 08:48:29 pm ---I disagree. Ukraine surrenders everything if they give into Russia and allows Putin to dictate to them. No the U.S. can't be counted on; that was blatantly evident with the pull out of Afghanistan.
--- End quote ---
If Ukraine doesn't come to some modus vivendi with Russia -which is not necessarily the same as Putin - then Russia will eventually take over Ukraine, simply through numbers.
DB:
--- Quote from: Kamaji on February 27, 2022, 09:34:43 pm ---If Ukraine doesn't come to some modus vivendi with Russia -which is not necessarily the same as Putin - then Russia will eventually take over Ukraine, simply through numbers.
--- End quote ---
Maybe. Maybe not. If the Ukrainians want to fight for their continued independence then the rest of the world should arm them well and make Russia pay a heavy cost.
Kamaji:
--- Quote from: DB on February 27, 2022, 09:42:08 pm ---Maybe. Maybe not. If the Ukrainians want to fight for their continued independence then the rest of the world should arm them well and make Russia pay a heavy cost.
--- End quote ---
At the end of the day, they will not have independence unless they forswear NATO. Nonalignment hasn't been too bad for Switzerland, why wouldn't it be good for Ukraine?
DB:
--- Quote from: Kamaji on February 27, 2022, 10:04:41 pm ---At the end of the day, they will not have independence unless they forswear NATO. Nonalignment hasn't been too bad for Switzerland, why wouldn't it be good for Ukraine?
--- End quote ---
Because Russia won't honor it. What Russia claims is just pretense to justify what they want. They want Ukraine's resources, particularly the oil wealth and a return of their glory days empire. Either they are held in check or they will take it.
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