Author Topic: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call  (Read 1181 times)

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Offline Kamaji

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America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« on: February 02, 2022, 04:48:01 pm »
America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call

But Washington just keeps hitting the snooze button.

By Eric Boehm
February 2, 2022

America's national debt exceeded $10 trillion for the first time ever in October 2008.

By mid-September 2017 the national debt had doubled to $20 trillion. That was so recently that it probably feels like the week before last. Remember Donald Trump issuing a threat of nuclear war against North Korea from a New Jersey country club? Did you see Thor: Ragnarok in theaters? That was fall 2017. It was less than five years ago.

Yesterday, data released by the U.S. Treasury confirmed that the national debt reached a new milestone: $30 trillion.

The speed with which the federal government has piled up the third mountain of 10 trillion I-O-U notes is truly remarkable. Yes, the response to the COVID-19 pandemic drove government borrowing and spending to stratospheric heights—but even before COVID appeared on the horizon, the operative question about the national debt was when not if the country would hit $30 trillion. The drivers of the debt are an unbalanced entitlement system and a persistent gap between government spending and tax revenue—the result of more than two decades of poor decision making in Washington, where politicians from both parties have carelessly borrowed to pay for everything from foreign wars to $1,200 checks for most Americans (even those earning six-figures) during the pandemic.


*  *  *

Source:  https://reason.com/2022/02/02/americas-30-trillion-national-debt-should-be-a-wake-up-call/


Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2022, 05:12:05 pm »
And forget the 'oh we're going to pass this to our grandchildren' BS. If interest rates spike, it will start causing severe cash flow problems for the Treasury, and God forbid foreign holders of our paper assets lose confidence and start dumping them.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Bigun

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2022, 05:16:07 pm »
Where is the penalty for screwing up Other People's Money?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline corbe

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2022, 05:19:06 pm »
   It's painfullly obvious that we should have given Trump 4 more years because the self proclaimed 'King of Debt' promised he'd eliminate the US Debt if given 8 years. /s
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2022, 05:25:30 pm »
Why?

What makes $30 trillion worse than $25 trillion or $20 trillion?

Both parties are complicit.  There's still plenty of road to keep kicking the can.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2022, 05:26:25 pm by DefiantMassRINO »
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Offline corbe

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2022, 05:28:16 pm »
   IMHO, this is still the Trump $$$$ we are spending, bidet's inflationary money printing is about to hit us even harder.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2022, 05:41:23 pm »
@Kamaji

There was a similar thread the other day and you mentioned TIPS.

This thread reminded me to check that out. I was not that aware of them, nor did I realize how many of them we have issued. It's over $8T of them.

What a cash flow disaster of inflation really spikes and stays there for a period of time.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2022, 05:46:48 pm »
@Kamaji

There was a similar thread the other day and you mentioned TIPS.

This thread reminded me to check that out. I was not that aware of them, nor did I realize how many of them we have issued. It's over $8T of them.

What a cash flow disaster of inflation really spikes and stays there for a period of time.


Yup.

Offline Absalom

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2022, 05:52:34 pm »
Expecting the usual suspects to 'wake up' is a fantasy as their world rotates around two elements: Money & Politics.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2022, 05:58:33 pm »
Why?

What makes $30 trillion worse than $25 trillion or $20 trillion?

Both parties are complicit.  There's still plenty of road to keep kicking the can.


Both parties are complicit - that is true.
But I do not believe kicking the can has ever been the answer, and is now approaching disaster - If we ain't there already...

The only thing that stands against that was the rocketing economy during Tumpy's first two years... That was largely accomplished by a corporate tax reduction, the illusion of regulation reduction, and riding the coattails of a bunch of printed money... That temporarily offset the inflation cycle caused by Obummer, and everything took off like crazy.

That's a pretty typical trick - and it gives a temporary reprieve. And it worked a charm. When Reagan did it it lasted near twenty years. When Tumpy did it it lasted hardly two.

And that it worked at all shows a certain... elasticity... still present in some quantity. Some small quantity.
Managing that in an ebb and flow cycle across a decade might still buy us out. But the chances of a responsible management is a pipe dream, the same as any other addiction. We are damn close to cold-turkey and nothing else will do.

When that free money trick cycle is returning to inflationary cycle in less than two years, soon it will be incidental enough not to matter. When we hit that, the goose is cooked.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2022, 06:05:03 pm »
Why?

What makes $30 trillion worse than $25 trillion or $20 trillion?

Both parties are complicit.  There's still plenty of road to keep kicking the can.

Cash flow and foreign debt holders.
The Republic is lost.

Offline LMAO

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2022, 12:07:06 am »
   It's painfullly obvious that we should have given Trump 4 more years because the self proclaimed 'King of Debt' promised he'd eliminate the US Debt if given 8 years. /s


It’s going to be difficult because every spending program has a constituency that will lobby hard to keep their spending, but fiscal conservatism and spending cuts must absolutely be on the table in 2024.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2022, 12:09:13 am by LMAO »
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2022, 02:24:39 am »
It will be the reason the leftists will use to go after their next big target:  Confiscation of 401ks and IRAs. now totaling $7 trillion, are a tempting target.

I can just imagine then taking dollars from your IRA in exchange for giving you additional 'credits' in SS and declare it is fair and patriotic thing to do, while justifying it by saying taxes were never paid on the money anyway.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2022, 02:28:16 am by IsailedawayfromFR »
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2022, 02:46:52 am »
Or, one could think even though you see it, it is not really there since the Feds bought up a lot of the debt.  So sleep easy at night.

Here's one leftist interpretation.

No, the US doesn’t have $30 trillion in debt
On Feb. 1, the US Treasury Department reported the national debt hit a record $30 trillion, prompting much hand-wringing about the fragility of the US economy.

But that doesn’t mean the federal government owes that amount, just like you don’t owe thousands of dollars when you start setting aside money for, say, a home remodel.

In that case, you would write down how much you need, create a savings account at the bank, and start allocating money towards that project. But if you still haven’t hired any contractors, or bought any supplies, would you count the future cost of that home repair as current debt? No.

Around $8 trillion of that $30 trillion cited by debt hawks as what the government has borrowed is the equivalent of that: Money that the government owes to itself in the future, says J.W. Mason, an economist professor at CUNY’s John Jay College. For example, the contributions the Social Security Administration puts aside into its Trust Fund to be paid out later get counted as debt.

So in reality, what the the federal government owes is $22 trillion, Mason said.

https://qz.com/2121442/no-the-us-does-not-have-30-trillion-in-debt/?utm_source=YPL
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Offline DB

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2022, 04:02:37 am »
Or, one could think even though you see it, it is not really there since the Feds bought up a lot of the debt.  So sleep easy at night.

Here's one leftist interpretation.

No, the US doesn’t have $30 trillion in debt
On Feb. 1, the US Treasury Department reported the national debt hit a record $30 trillion, prompting much hand-wringing about the fragility of the US economy.

But that doesn’t mean the federal government owes that amount, just like you don’t owe thousands of dollars when you start setting aside money for, say, a home remodel.

In that case, you would write down how much you need, create a savings account at the bank, and start allocating money towards that project. But if you still haven’t hired any contractors, or bought any supplies, would you count the future cost of that home repair as current debt? No.

Around $8 trillion of that $30 trillion cited by debt hawks as what the government has borrowed is the equivalent of that: Money that the government owes to itself in the future, says J.W. Mason, an economist professor at CUNY’s John Jay College. For example, the contributions the Social Security Administration puts aside into its Trust Fund to be paid out later get counted as debt.

So in reality, what the the federal government owes is $22 trillion, Mason said.

https://qz.com/2121442/no-the-us-does-not-have-30-trillion-in-debt/?utm_source=YPL

An economics professor talking about the social security trust fund... What a hoot... And a moron...

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2022, 04:08:08 am »
It will be the reason the leftists will use to go after their next big target:  Confiscation of 401ks and IRAs. now totaling $7 trillion, are a tempting target.

I can just imagine then taking dollars from your IRA in exchange for giving you additional 'credits' in SS and declare it is fair and patriotic thing to do, while justifying it by saying taxes were never paid on the money anyway.

They think anyway. Since alot of that is in stocks, do they plan to sell them all and crash the market? Deprive people of their income and basically live subsistence of their social security?

Do they think $7T is alot of money? That will cover our current budget not even 2 years.

These people are pinheads.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2022, 04:11:36 am »
An economics professor talking about the social security trust fund... What a hoot... And a moron...

These guys think in terms of static economics and balance sheets. No concept of cause and effect, and the cascading fallout that results.
The Republic is lost.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2022, 07:32:33 am »
These guys think in terms of static economics and balance sheets. No concept of cause and effect, and the cascading fallout that results.

The analogy was poor anyway...

Someone who is saving money to pay for a future house... That guy is CASH on the BARREL HEAD.

A more apt analogy is buying a McMansion on credit - Do you then count your obligations in your predicted futures? Hell yes you do. And if the mortgage on that McMansion was enough to make you hit your limits... and you rack up the credit cards paying for your groceries because your beautiful McMansion is well beyond your means... Well that's getting close to a good analogy.

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2022, 02:27:02 pm »
It's a race between Washington DC and Wall Street to see which can steal or confiscate every pile of savings first.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2022, 02:43:10 pm »
Why?

What makes $30 trillion worse than $25 trillion or $20 trillion?

Both parties are complicit.  There's still plenty of road to keep kicking the can.

Yep.  The only thing that today's politicians care about is that it doesn't blow up before they die.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2022, 03:09:49 pm »
I read through this thread before posting this to see if someone had already posted it and no one had.

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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2022, 11:42:29 pm »
I've stated this before and will do so again:
"The debt" will not be "fixed".
Those who complain about it generally have no power to do anything about it.
Those who have the power to "fix it" WILL NOT so long as they can continue to ignore it.
They will continue to ignore it until the time comes when it can no longer be ignored.
THEN they might do something to "fix" it.
But I can assure you that whatever they do... you're not going to like it.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2022, 02:49:21 am »
Around $8 trillion of that $30 trillion cited by debt hawks as what the government has borrowed is the equivalent of that: Money that the government owes to itself in the future, says J.W. Mason, an economist professor at CUNY’s John Jay College. For example, the contributions the Social Security Administration puts aside into its Trust Fund [sic] to be paid out later get counted as debt.

So in reality, what the the federal government owes is $22 trillion, Mason said.[/i]
https://qz.com/2121442/no-the-us-does-not-have-30-trillion-in-debt/?utm_source=YPL

'$22 trillion + $8 trillion in liability' is the same as $30 trillion.
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: America's $30 Trillion National Debt Should Be a Wake Up Call
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2022, 05:05:34 am »
It's a race between Washington DC and Wall Street to see which can steal or confiscate every pile of savings first.

I understand the comment around DC and stealing and confiscation via spending and taxation.

But Wall Street?  Is there a company or brokerage house twisting your arm to invest?  Or if you meant literally.... stealing your money? 
If they are, you might be wanting to makes some contacts with the SEC.
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