Classic Rock Discussion thread, including Catfish's Top 20 Lists.

[catfish1957]

@catfish1957



I was a big Steve Howe fan at the time, and I was severely disappointed.

@GrouchoTex

Steve Howe must have been absent in the songwriting sessions.  He made better music singularly on Fragile, than the entire 9 of 13 LP Asia releases he was a participant.  As far as I know he may have been there for name only as a session man, but got named in a few tunes in passive manner.

I also had to laugh a few weeks ago, as I saw some Uncle Ted pod casts glowingly reminiscing about his Damned Yankee's.   foray. I was just shaking my heard in disbelief.  Which reminds me....  Might be a good time for a Amboy Duke's review......

[catfish1957]

Classic Rock Album of the Day- Amboy Dukes- Journey to the Center of the Mind (1968) ** 1/2

The Amboy Dukes were a very competent innovative Detroit based band that goes even back to the mid 1960's.  Their true claim to fame is that their front man was the Motor City Mad Man himself, Ted Nugent.  90% of the talent and persona was around Uncle Ted, and definitiley had the Detroit sized ego to carry the band to success.

The band never ever really charted well, but they did have some flashes of uneven  talent.  To best describe the Amboy Dukes, they were one of the best on our side of the pond as a poor man's  Cream.  Don't get me wrong, Cream was multiudes better at their craft, but these guys did do some pretty inspiring psychedelic bluesy hard rock, that was pretty out there for 1967-1968.  And of course, it gave rise to Ted's solo career, which is much more known, and acknowledged.  His solo work is much more AOR oriented  than these prehistoric versions of his stuff. Thankfully, not many were doing psychedelia by the mid 1970's.  Thank God.

This particular album (at #74) was the only one that charted in the top 100, which was somewhat a surprise to me.  My best guess and estimate, is that the rest of the band though good, were not that good. Songwriting was uneven, and dumb right dumb at times.    Whether that had more to do with Nugent's ego, or technical skills, that would be up for debate.   But there is no doubt.  Ted is center stage, and spotlighted 99% of the time., and in this particular album, he almost hit one out of the park with guitar work ahead of its time.

Fun fact: Nugent has always expressed his distaste with substance abuse, and even claimed that Journey to the Center of the Mind did not have drug inferences....   Even though the album cover art was full of hookahs?  Yeah, sure Ted.

Side 1-
----------

Mississippi Murderer-  Album starts with a Chicago-ey blues song.  Nothing really sets this apart as inspiring. Hammond solo-ing was pretty nice, but in the end.... standard stuff.  5

Surrender to the Kings- Dreadful vocals, which might be a lot of the reason this band never really resonated outside interest in Nugent.  Ted does his thing though, and that is alwasy interesting. 9

Flight of the Byrd- One the high points of the album, Bass player line down some nice lines, that augmented Nugents ax well .  Too bad the rest of the album didn't take this formula instead of the strange path it did.2

Scottish Tea-  Bizarre, but nice ditty that tries to recreate some traditional Scottish pipe sounding  folksy uhh..  thing.  I am sure the guys in kilts were laughing their asses off at this, but it worked okay  for me.  Maybe working on my primordial ancestry? 4

Dr. Slingshot- Hard rocking that shows a lot in future Amboy Dukes work.    I liked it, and it has that late 1960's feel to it. 3

Side 2-
------------------

Journey to the Center of the Mind-  I think it is safe to say that if song had not been written, no one today would have ever heard of Ted Nugent.  This is the one and by far, their signature, and most famous song. And a fine song it is.  A rollicking rocker that was a standard of rock FM radio in the day. Provides the most typiclal style licks that were incorporatd into much of the rest of Nugent's career.  1

(Then it strangely unravels rather than building on the conceptual classic)

Ivory Castles-  Donovan sounding gibberish.  Ill sounding, ill advised.  Silly shit.  13

Why is a Carrot more  Orange than an Orange-  More '60's silliness, and randomness 12

Missionary Mary- Somewhat an upgrade from prior two songs, though it has the phrasing that borders on inane. I think Nugent was trying to recreate some kind of Sgt. Peppers kind of feel, but whatever. 8

Death is Life- Sometimes trying Grandiose comes across, yeah I'll use that word again...sillingly.  I know most of Side 2 has that aura to it, and in 1968 it might have seemed timely, now it just seems terribly dated.  7

Saint Phillips Friend-  More of the Same.  Side 2 seems like a concept album without a concept.  Random stuff, that would have been mostly collected into one song of riffs, and tears in the form of one song as an instrumental.  10

I'll Prove I'm Right- Nice psychadelic kind of riffing in a quaint '60's kind of way.  Side 2 wasn't a total loss. 6

Conclusion- Pointless recount of side 2.  Key to this, is to stick with Side 1, and obviously the first cut of Side 2-  11 

And don't forget.....   Why is a carrot more orange than an orange.   


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLmRYHZXvGg

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I swear I'm catching up tonight....

Did want to comment on the Nine Inch Nails, which I'd never really listened to before but did go through the whole album.

Yes, it was some pretty disturbing stuff.  Interesting, and I can see why Reznor has been successful. But I can also see why listening to that kind of stuff extensively would be bad news.

Music was pretty good, but damn would it have been nice to have an actual drummer/percussionist rather than the drum machines.  I know the drum machines are part of the point of the music, but not my thing in general.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I'll comment on the Asia review more fully later -- I saw them at one of their very first gigs in the Spring of 1982 in Baltimore.  I was a Midshipman at the time and was illegally at the show with a buddy, and had to make it back by taps so we missed the encore.  But my feelings are generally the same as you guys.

However, the review of Asia has prompted me to post a different album review than I had intended, so that'll go up later as well.  It'll serve as some additional explanation excuse as to why I wanted to see Asia.

[catfish1957]

There are (were) very few super group collaborations that I have liked.  I've already poked enough fun this week at Damned Yankees.

I did enjoy the Wilburys for the fact of the way they presented their stuff.  And again more for the unique way they vocalized it in great fun and the commradary concept.   

[berdie]

There are (were) very few super group collaborations that I have liked.  I've already poked enough fun this week at Damned Yankees.

I did enjoy the Wilburys for the fact of the way they presented their stuff.  And again more for the unique way they vocalized it in great fun and the commradary concept.   

I agree. The Wilburys were great fun to listen to.

Since you did ask several posts before, I will ask. Next time you want to go retro, would you do a review of Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels? I enjoy your reviews. Truthfully, I am not knowledgeable enough and if I write something it would be like...The Titanic. Sad story, the ship sank. The end. They had a pretty good drummer and lead guitarist. And actually, Mitch sounds a lot like Bob Segar. This was brought to mind by a reference to Uncle Ted (who I also like.)

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I'll catch up as best I can here, and in no particular order....

Unlike most supergroups, the collective ego of the Wilburys was much less than the sum of their parts.  Seemed like they were there for the music rather than egos, and as a result made some really nice songs.  Harrison wrote my favorite Beatles songs anyway....

Paul Revere and the Raiders -- Damn was this a pleasant surprise.  Musicianship isn't up there with a lot of other bands, but there was clear passion and an appealing rawness to their sound.  Don't think I'd ever heard this before, but Just Like Me and especially Hungry were just damn good.

Blue Oyster Cult - For me, this was kind of the flip side of Paul Revere.  Superior musicianship, but the terminal prog in me couldn't handle the lack of...surprise in a lot of the songs.  Veins, though, really got me.  Probably because of the jazzy time sig. jumps, but I really liked that one.

So jumping to Asia...yeah, what an incredible disappointment.  I was very familiar with Palmer, Howe, Wetton, but only knew Downes from Video Killed the Radio Star, which should have tipped me off.  Downs and Wetton did most of the writing, and I assume it was primarily Downs with the music and Wetton with the lyrics.  And there you go....Funny thing is that Heat of the Moment was the very last song they wrote.  It's a very good straight ahead rock/pop song, and Only Time Will Tell was a nice ballad.  Didn't mind Sole Survivor either, but the whole thing was just shockingly more mainstream than what I had hoped/half-expected given the involvement of Wetton and Howe.   Like I said, I saw them in early '82.  Looked it up, and it was their 6th gig as a band in a Owings Mill Md.  Venue that only held a couple of thousand. Good seats, but the band pretty much stuck to the album other than Howe doing The Clap (awesome), and a ridiculously good drum solo by Palmer that was worth the price alone.  Never seen one like it before or since.

I know Howe is the one people look to as the true progressive guy in that band, but that overlooks John Wetton's background, which leads to me to my soon to be posted album review....

[Maj. Bill Martin]

King Crimson - USA (1975).  or "Definitely Not Asia".

For a lot of folks, King Crimson is remembered for In the Court of the Crimson King, and perhaps 21st Century Schizoid Man, both from their first album in 1969.  Other than Schizoid Man, you could sort of describe their original sound as a more ornate, more adventurous Moody Blues.  Majestic, orchestral, etc..  That first album kind of hid the fact that live, they were actually a very heavy band.  But after two albums, everyone was gone from the band except guitarist Robert Fripp, and the sound changed dramatically.  In 1973, what I'd call King Crimson Mark III saw Fripp joined by ex-Yes Drummer Bill Bruford, Ex-Family member John Wetton, violinist David Cross, and rather insane percussionist Jamie Muir.  I was going to review one of their studio albums, but to maximize the contrast with Asia, thought I'd skip to a live album recorded at a concert in Asbury Park in 1974, which is a good representation of why they've sometimes been credited with birthing progressive metal.  No Muir as he'd left to join a monastery.

This is Crimson at their heaviest, with Bruford and Wetton determined to play as loudly and aggressively as possible, and Fripp characterizing it as trying to play with a "flying brick wall".  I'll do studio albums another time, but figured this might be amusing after Asia.  Hard to find the right original album mix because Fripp had the album remixed on a couple of occasion to turn down the bass and up his guitar, and I prefer it with all the massive fuzz-bass speakers can handle.  Also, Crimson is really tight with their intellectual property, and there isn't a freebie of the entire album anywhere on YouTube so I had to go song by song.  Anyway, here it goes....

Larks Tongues in Aspic, Part II - this is a rather straight-forward, riff based instrumental with Fripp having sole writing credit -- something very unusual with the band and that is somewhat reflected in the comparative directness of the song.  Also, a bit slow for my taste which makes it drag a bit at times.  Wetton's bass still bowls Fripp over on occasion, with Cross supply following Fripp with his violin.   I've always found the album version of this to be a bit tedious until some time-signature magic in the last couple of minutes, but this live version is dirty, distorted, and kind of menacing.  Dream Theater actually did a cover of this song, and I'll bet that sounded better live too.  6


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYF3KU-UALg

Lament  This is another comparatively straightforward song, starting off with a ballad-like opening vocal about the vagaries of the music industry by Wetton at his mouthful of spit sounding best.  Or worst.  But it's really the music here, with Bruford and Wetton hammering away again, some nice Mellotron bits by Cross, and Fripp doing Fripp stuff.  Amusing cat-call at the very beginning of the song from some woman screaming "Who made your violin?", which they deliberately didn't edit.  Nice touch considering they fired Cross after this tour.  5


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar9Y6H6MjFQ

Exiles  This is actually something of a ballad, clearly about people arriving in a new land.  I prefer the album version, but always really liked this song as it has some of the color and heft of Crimson Mark I.  Another amusing catcall at the beginning of this one with some guy yelling "Lake sucks", apparently not realizing that Greg Lake hasn't been in the band for 4 years.  Or maybe he was saying Lake sucks in comparison to Wetton.  Who knows? 4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsP49QAxsHE

Asbury Park  The essential tune on the album.  Crimson Mark III typically had fully 1/3 of their set completely unscripted -- free improvisation.  Someone would start to play, and others joined in if, when and how they deemed appropriate.  This particular jam began with Bruford starting off with a syncopated rhythm, joined first by Wetton, and then by Fripp with some blazingly fast solos.  Nothing written or planned ahead of time.  It builds with Bruford and Wetton thundering down the middle, and Fripp flying all around them trying to be heard.  The tightness of this completely unscripted jam is rather amazing.  Unfortunately, I can only find one of the Fripp-remixed versions rather than the original album version where the bass is much stronger.  Although you can still hear Wetton yelling out the chord change "F" at about the 4 minute mark because, as Monty Python would say, "he's making it up as he goes along".  Asia this is not.1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOg5NSJFKqM

Easy Money Cool, extended piece that beings with a very heavy riff, free-form midsection, then returning back to the riff at the end.  Good tune. 2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G9YOvX76D4

21st Century Schizoid Man  This is the only song off the first 4 albums this version of the band ever played.  Heaviness of the original matches this lineup really well, and Wetton's bass playing on this is really impressive. Again, to think this dude went on to freaking Asia....3


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kO44O4-BgU

[catfish1957]

Excellent review Major.  I will admit to honestly to have never listened to this album, or other King Crimson live LP.

One thing that I have always admired about this band is their strong adherence of sticking with being prog pioneers, and not straying too far off the formula.  Of course that is kind a of a double edged sword in that it satisfies the hard core fans, but the crtics needlessly chiding the band about sound redundancy.    Like other prog greats like Pink Floyd, ELP, Rush, Yes, and even Kansas, they all have a dying obsession to being impeccably crisp, accurate, and true to the studio versions. 

With that stated, I was marveled that KC actually took the "improv" approach on this album. And maybe to address critical issues.    This  normally the grandisose approach that hard rock behmoths like Zeppelin and Purple used.  Getting a great prog act to operate out of that box is truly an anomoly, and in this album it worked pretty nicely.  Your terminology around "free form" was very apt.  My favorite on the LP.   As a musician, improv when really clicking like a jazz piece....  is a work of art when working perfectly.

[catfish1957]

I agree. The Wilburys were great fun to listen to.

Since you did ask several posts before, I will ask. Next time you want to go retro, would you do a review of Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels? I enjoy your reviews. Truthfully, I am not knowledgeable enough and if I write something it would be like...The Titanic. Sad story, the ship sank. The end. They had a pretty good drummer and lead guitarist. And actually, Mitch sounds a lot like Bob Segar. This was brought to mind by a reference to Uncle Ted (who I also like.)

Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels?  Loved their sound, and they were among the best out thre that did mostly and exclusively covers.    I've so far kind of avoided reviewing  bands that  basically operated in that mode. OTOH, Their renditon of "Little Latin Lupe' Lu (my favorite by them) was the best, and superior to those by the Rightous Brothers or Paul Revere and the Raiders.    AND...  as far as musical style the likes of the greats like Nugent, Seger, have cited them as influences.  No minimizing that!!!

Another band that was kind of in the same boat, and had even greater success was "Three Dog Night".  When I was about 10 or 11, they were right up there as my favorites.  But they pretty much did not do any song writing of any quantity.  But man did they ever crank out the hits.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Excellent review Major.  I will admit to honestly to have never listened to this album, or other King Crimson live LP.

One thing that I have always admired about this band is their strong adherence of sticking with being prog pioneers, and not straying too far off the formula.  Of course that is kind a of a double edged sword in that it satisfies the hard core fans, but the crtics needlessly chiding the band about sound redundancy.    Like other prog greats like Pink Floyd, ELP, Rush, Yes, and even Kansas, they all have a dying obsession to being impeccably crisp, accurate, and true to the studio versions. 

With that stated, I was marveled that KC actually took the "improv" approach on this album. And maybe to address critical issues.    This normally the grandisose approach that hard rock behmoths like Zeppelin and Purple used.  Getting a great prog act to operate out of that box is truly an anomoly, and in this album it worked pretty nicely.  Your terminology around "free form" was very apt.  My favorite on the LP.   As a musician, improv when really clicking like a jazz piece....  is a work of art when working perfectly.

Great points about the improvisation, and kind of why I picked this album.  In the Court, while one of my favorite albums, painted an almost misleading picture of a band that was tightly scripted when the truth, even back then, was very much the opposite.  It's why you got 10 minutes of pure improv in the album version of "Moonchild" after the short opening, and live recordings of them back then had tons of it.  To them, "soloing" was really "everyone soloing at once", which made things interesting on occasion.

I also thought it was interesting that Dream Theater had covered the first song on that album, and they did a very nice job on it when they did.  Definite overlap in that sound. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GvOkQjBtDg

Anyway, I've always considered Crimson the "proggiest" of the prog bands because as later reviews will show, their sound never stagnated.  You may not have liked it, but it was constantly changing in part because each musician was given far more freedom to define their parts as they saw fit.  And as soon as Fripp thought they got into a rut, he'd break up the band.  As annoying of a bleep as he is, he did help keep them moving.  Though you sometimes have to sift through the misses to find the gems.

[catfish1957]

Honesty Poll for Every Briefer Guy Born in the 1950's?

Did you own this 8 Track Tape or Cassette, and always have it in your Truck or Car?

Why was it there? 

[catfish1957]

Things have always been a bit crazy....

50 years ago, give or take, one the largest selling recording artists in history wrote, and sang a love song to a Rat.

No, not a person who was a rat.  An actual rodent. 

[deb]

Things have always been a bit crazy....

50 years ago, give or take, one the largest selling recording artists in history wrote, and sang a love song to a Rat.

No, not a person who was a rat.  An actual rodent.

Ben? Loved that song. 

[berdie]

Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels?  Loved their sound, and they were among the best out thre that did mostly and exclusively covers.    I've so far kind of avoided reviewing  bands that  basically operated in that mode. OTOH, Their renditon of "Little Latin Lupe' Lu (my favorite by them) was the best, and superior to those by the Rightous Brothers or Paul Revere and the Raiders.    AND...  as far as musical style the likes of the greats like Nugent, Seger, have cited them as influences.  No minimizing that!!!

Another band that was kind of in the same boat, and had even greater success was "Three Dog Night".  When I was about 10 or 11, they were right up there as my favorites.  But they pretty much did not do any song writing of any quantity.  But man did they ever crank out the hits.

Thanks @catfish1957 ! I had never thought about the fact that both bands were basically cover bands. But poking around on their discographies, they sure were.

[sneakypete]

Thanks @catfish1957 ! I had never thought about the fact that both bands were basically cover bands. But poking around on their discographies, they sure were.

@berdie

The guys in 3 Dog Night had truly amazing voices. They could have probably sold songs from reading a phone book.

[catfish1957]

Will be taking about a 3 or 4 day run to the ancestral home for some technology, news and current events detox.

Wife is claiming it is mandatory.  Says no computers, TV,  staring into a fireplace mindlessly, and walks in the woods is theraputic.  Didn't get the  part about where did she get her MD. 

As far as good music, I've really have been enjoying and had really overlooked the stuff (2 of 4) of Yes from the Trevor Babin era.  I think I will review one of those 4 when I get back.  Everybody remembers 90125 and Big Generator in earnest, but the other two- Union and Talk have great moments too.   

Babin has had amazing career, and if you look at his accomplshment in film scores alone, you realize how amazing a coup Yes pulled off adding him to their ranks, and given such a leading role in songwriting.  His additon just one of many reasons why Yes is among the favorites of many of us here. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Rabin

[catfish1957]

Classic Rock Album of the Day- Yes- Talk (1994) *****

Yes, is a beloved band by many of us at TBR, and are among the greatest stalwarks of prog in both quality of longevity.  Finding a great Yes album to review is like shooting fish in barrel.  If you ask all of us fans, of the what constiutued their core greatest, you'd probably come up with a line up like this...   Anderson-Howe-Wakefield-Squire-Bruford from about 75-90% of us, including me. 

But, if there is one outside that core that is considered the greatest, there might be some differing opinions, but in my choice  it is no doubt Trevor Babin.  Babin is an incredibly talented songwriter, classical composer, and musicanship who pretty much help re-invent Yes for a whole new geneation in the mid to late 1980's with "90125" and "Big Generator", as he very much dominates the music making chops of the era of Yes he participated in.  To provide an idea of the level of innovation by Mr. Babin listen below some of his non-Yes  endeavors, including composing the TV NBA theme song, and one of my favorite Movie soundtracks of all time...  "National Treasure".

Babin's compostions augmented beautifully with Yes' prog repitorie, and had enough quirk and hook to be truly and fascinatingly listenable.  On almost every tune.  His ability to write songs that vary in such style and meter, truly make him a master of his trade.  I could have easiy chosen the more well known works of 90125, and Big Generator, but I wanted to highlight this gem that was pretty much overlooked.  And again overlooked as a prog masterpiece when much of the rock listening public was jamming to Grunge.  Talk allowed Babin, to really do some out of the box( normally hate that term) writing, and some of the stuff  sounded nothing like prior Yes work. This may be one the most obscure works that I give 5 stars to.  I loved it, and was sad that it went so overlooked by the music listening public.   Babin is listed as first (lead) in songwriting on every song.  This was his baby, and was it ever great.  This was Rabin's last time with Yes, but it sure did he seal his legacy in the band.

Fun Fact:  Think Rabin was a one hit wonder with his movie sound track creations?  Here is a list of some the many movies scores he did you may have heard of...  Con Air, Armageddon, Enemy of the State, Jack Frost, Gone in 60 Seconds, Remember the Titans, Rock Star, Bad Company, Texas Rangers, Kangaroo Jack, Glory Road, and many more. 

Track
========

1- The Calling-  Song leads with always awesome harmonizations, and blends into a rocking gem.  At the end the band almost creates a bass melotron sound and chordal fade that sounds like nothiing I have heard before from the band.  Anderson's vocal fade just give this sound a air of magic.  2

2- I am Waiting- Maybe the most ballad like song on the CD.  Sorrowful wailing Babin guitar blends impeccably with Anderson's high tenor so well.  This song also has such a nice touch of almost multi-phasic styles.  Just when you think the song has taken a full ballad approach, it rocks into standard fare, and then quickly into a semi-funk ditty, and so on.  This isn't simple songwriting, this is someone who is among the best at their craft.  Babin's ability to make even a single song come across as a symphonic piece is remarkable. 4

3.  Real Love- Totally different than anythign else, though it does have that Big Generator feel to in how Babin incorporated the bass into a song that mimics a mechanical process. Props to Squire as always in being able to maintain beat, volume, and meter to match that mechanical feel that Babin wanted on this one.   At times this thing has that "thumpy funk" vibe to it.  And with again a lot of complex orchestraziation that became his norm. 6

4. State of Play-  My favorite song on the album- Somewhat of an anti-ode to Manhattan Project, and nuclear proliferation.  Aboslutely beautiful and masterful encompassive chordal progession and as ususal with this album, wirting takes the listener on a tour-de- force of varying musical styles, with so many innovative parts. And I beleive Anderson saw this genious too, as his voice is stronger and truer that in at least 3 or 4 albums. 1

5. Walls- Yes, this  is pretty much a C & W slant on this one.  But is so damned good. Maybe the most hooked piece on the LP, but of course Babin changes course, and springs some surprises.  By now....  You know you've been listening to a masterpiece. I bet Babin  had a blast at the end doing the country licks. 5

6. Where Will You Be- Babin is now showing off his South African roots, with an African sounding ballad that mixes complex time and key change signatures in a fantastic matter.  This one sounds a lot like what he does on his sound track work.  Some of Babin's guitar work almost sounds like Howe, and is understated in the mix, but please don't overlook and enjoy. 7

7.-9.  Endless Dream (Suite- Silent Spring, Talk, Endless Dream) I've have grouped this into one, because musically it truly is a suite in pure prog fashion.  This one is going to be pretty ambivalent for the fans.  I personally have a symphonic streak to me, that recognizes what and how the suite is supposed to be constructed, and delivered.  In this  15 minute 3 movement work, I would love to see a true full orchestra score to be  applied to the work.  It's got the same level of quirk and change as the rest of the album, but intended to be set as a melodic work than rocking.   3

This is one of those rare works without filler.  Enjoy.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAFzyiOgMUo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=122Pn-bXk38


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7qRVCzMB7g

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I want to thank you @catfish1957 for reviewing this album. I stopped listening to Yes after 90125, and so had never heard this album before.  I thought Changes was the best song on 90125, but I'd actually put some of these songs before any of the other songs on 90125.

I listened to this last night, as you said, Rabin is really the highlight of this album.  I thought his guitar work was more lyrical than it was on 90125, and I didn't really miss Howe at all.  Anderson also was in top form.  I always lean towards tracks that are less straightforward, so my order would probably be Endless Dream, Where Will You Be (reminded me of a softer version of "Teakbois" from ABWH), State of Play, and then the Calling.

As good as Rabin is, I barely heard Kaye on many of the tracks.  And I do think Squire was less adventurous himself.  I don't know whether that was his choice, or because that's how Rabin wanted the soundstage.

My biggest negative was the drumming.  I loved the opening of the Calling until the plodding and unimaginative drumming kicked it, and I thought that was true for much of the album.

This album kind of highlights my issue with Alan White's drumming. I think when the underlying composition is sufficiently "prog" or non-traditional, it forces White out of his rock comfort zone, and he's a pretty good drummer.

But as soon as the band starts to get anywhere close to a straightforward rock song, he either is just lazy, or cannot come up anything interesting.   So he basically adds nothing of interest, and just keeps a steady, and usually rather plodding, beat.  I shudder to think of what Yours is No Disgrace might have sounded like if White had been the drummer.  It's like there isn't a jazzy bone in the guy's body.  Which is too bad, because I think a couple of these songs might have gone from "good" to great" (for me) with a more imaginative drummer.

That's why I think the songs with the least traditional structure/sound are the best ones on the album, although my biggest takeaway is Rabin being significantly better than I had remembered.

[catfish1957]

Great comments again @Maj. Bill Martin .  I fully understand your thoughts around how Babin constructed this LP, and my best thinking is that as an almost classical type composer, these guys focus highly on the instumental volume as it interplays like in a symphony. 

I know this is not the normal mode of playing in prog band, and even much less in a rock band.  That is why Squire's wizardry was more understated than you would see in a normal Yes album.  And percussion?  Even more so. I know in high school and college percussionist hated symphonic season, and would call it boring as hell.  That's just the how things are. In the most traditonal sumphonic style Endless Dream almost plays like a classical piece in its construction and delivery.  When I hear it, I can almost envision Babin expanding the part to the 10-15 instumental sections  that make up one.

I do know that this was last album in Yes by Babin, and I really have never read or heard why he left.  Maybe the rest of the founding members like Squire and Anderson did not like this approach, and wanted maybe a more democratic distribution of the contributions.  I might stand corrected, but I do believe that this was the last collaboration of Babin in a band.  Afterwards he pretty much fully focused n composing, mostly scores for movies.

I almost reviewed Union which I also really liked.  It sounded so much more like early Yes, and very reminiscent  of quite a bit of '70's stuff. Of course, Anderson's style and influence is stamped all over it, and that is not a bad thing.

[catfish1957]

Classic Rock Album of the Day- The Cars- Self Titled (1978) ****

A point was brought up the other about killing Disco, which I highly celebrated as the stuff had especially gotten awful and degraded into a putrid pile of poo.  But what killed it?  Besides it's own self destruction?,  Honestly it was the advent of new wave that created a whole new genre of music that sounded so much different, but still contained a whole lot of pop sensibility. I think we all remember wearing the style of faded blue jeans, an oxford shirt, with a skinny tie.  And ohhh yeah....  don't forget your Rick Ocasek looking sunglasses.    I normally didn't  care much for works that have that pop intent, but I have to admit I got caught up in the fad.  With the new stuff reviewed here with the Car's debut album, and the Police's debut Outlandas d'Amour, a new and fresh approach was brought to the rock equation. So yes, from my own personal POV, New Wave killed Disco.  Well that and baseball games at Comisky Park. 

As far as The Cars, I do like this one just a tad less than Candy-O, but there is no denying that this new sound was audacious, and the listening crowd loved it.  In fact this was one of the few times in history that i agreed with the Grammy's as far as choice of new act.  The talent center of the band resides in their guitar and keyboardist,  Rick Ocasek, and Benjamin Orr.  And if you listen to the band enough, you can almost guess which one of them writes each.  Orr had a more pop, hook centered style, while Ocasek had the patent on quirk.  And no one can dispute that part of the beauty and enjoyment of listening to The Cars that they had  some of the best vocal harmonies by any rock band at the time.

You will find that this album does have a rougher feel on the production values, vs. say toward Heart Beat City, which employed Mutt Lange's polish.  That polish put out some great hits.....and Magic is one my favorities by them.  But by then  you can tell by then that there was more intrusion that  style over substance was creeping into their product.  What I do really like about the Cars, versus their other New Wave brethern is that they though they are considered almost creators of the  genre, weren't opposed to cranking out some good guitar riffs.  And on at least in the pop world, they were among the best of blending that blaring synth-guitar song that was great pop, and a good song, all at the same time.

Sadly, Orr died in 2000, and for all practical purposes, their tenure as a good band ended in '84's effort with Heartbeat City. I don't reccommend their last two efforts at all.

Fun Fact:  I was kind of shocked that this was The Cars highest selling album in their discography 6X platinum.  It always seemed like the tunes from Candy-O and Heartbeat City had singles that got more airplay.

Side 1-
--------------

Let the Good Times Roll-  Introductory song from the Cars show the Ocasek "quirk" right off the bat.  Slow rolling synth, with more of the same from the other guys. The Cars were using melodic synth, so much different than anyone at the time, and it pretty much was their halmark. 5

My Best Friend's Girlfriend- Hooky rocking number that exemplifies some of their best harmonies. Song has a nice organ retro sound that harkens to a little like the '60's.  But no one in the '60's sounded like this though.  Ocasek solo at the end almost has Beatle-esque touch to it too. 4

Just What I Needed- Best song and biggest hit  on the LP-  One of Orr's best. A great rocking sound that has mashes the synth with a staccato power chord that rocks.  And though I may say it repetitively, some awesome vocal harmonizations too.   1

I'm In Touch With Your World- Always thought it was strange for the Cars to place their best and worst songs back to back.  But this one pretty much fills the filler department.  Yeah, it's Ocasek quirk with random noises , but in the grand scheme it was pretty pointless 9

Don't Cha Stop- Really the most new wave sounding piece on the album.  The up and down drum beat, with melodic feel really makes you feel like you are back in 1980.  Decent song, but not one of the best.  7

Side 2-
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You Are All I've Got Tonight- Great one that is innovative in its synth infused drum, and very complex inter-melodic lines that really highlighted some of Ocasek's best writing, at least on this LP.  What is strange, is that in many ways this sounds more like an Orr song, but ......   3

Bye Bye Love- Excellent tune by Benjamin Orr.  Another example of how he channeled 1960's songwriting style , and made it into New Wave. Love the  synth, then guitar soloing at the end.  2

Moving In Stereo-  I'm sorry.  But I can not listen to this song without the visual of Phoebe Cates taking off her red bikini top in Fast Times at Ridgemont High.  Iconic scene to maybe less than an iconic song.  8

All Mixed Up- This one is a real outlier.  Kind of a ballad, but almost with the most tradional rocking style.  I guess I dock it because it really doesn't feel like it belongs.  Maybe the Cars wanted to show or prove they could perfrom the straightforward stuff, but I didn't really care for it-  6



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTkH1kP_kx4

[catfish1957]

Classic Rock Album of the Day- Big Country- The Crossing (1983) *** 1/2

This somewhat obscure work will likely not tickle some fancies, but in my case, I think my Scottish ancestry leads me to enjoy this work more than others.  Honestly, before looking up some reseach details on this band, I wouldn't have been able to cite even one single member of this band.  But this particular group, who pretty much were a one hit album wonder did a really good job on this one.

That Scottish aura is blaringly evident  in that they had the ability to innovatively sear their dual wailed guitar sounds to almost come across as bagpipes.  I have had day dreams of playing some of these songs from this album at Flodden Field with headphones and soaking in the feeling of knowing 100's of my ancestors died at that site over 500 years ago. 

I wouldn't say there is anything spectacular musically with this band or album. but they put together a really good album, very much worth a listen that had  tradtional folk Scottish licks that was a nice respite from synth laden stuff that we were being fed in the mid '80's.

Fun Fact:  Remember MTV hyping this band as the new Scottish U2.  Didn't quite pan out that way.

Side 1-
-----------

In a Big 'Country- Very solid opening tune.  Well sung, very traditional with first taste of screaming pipes.   The hit, and the video we all remember during the day too. 4

Inwards- Less than stellar number in the mode of the wuss UK bands of the time.   Too bad they had to do their Tears for Fears thing.  10

Chance- Beautifully done ballad, and terribly overlooked song from this album. My actual favorite on the LP, as it is done in such a heartful   manner, and the ending has such powerful bearutiful chordal runs that really are like icing on the cake.  There are not many examples where one like this one is no. 1 for me, but this is the rare one. 1

1000 Stars- Guys try to flex their guitar muscles a bit, but candidly this  is not in their wheel house.  8

The Storm- Scottish traditonal folk fare that is pretty good, and a nice closing to side 1- 5

Side 2-
--------------

Harvest Home-  Fantastic wailing pipe like guitars highlight a astonishing use of 1/3's in their melodic lines.  Not too shabby at all.  Very traditonal fare, that has that great Scottish feel to it. 2

Lost patrol- No this one wasn't about 1513 Flodden, but the boys did give homage with a song about the 1745 Jacobite rebellion, which was pretty much the last hurrah of any potential Scottish nationalism.  Love historical songs, (yeah love some early '60's Johnny Horton)but they muddle it so badly it is hard to understand. I give it extra points alone though for intent -6

Close Action- This one has some nice guitar work.  Decent for sure- 7

Fields of Fire- Another pipe ridden rocker that is excellent.  Almost comes across as a battle song, that comes with bonus of simulated cannon fire, and hell I an almost see the Dragoons rushing in bayonets up. Hell Yeah!!!!  3

Porrohman- hard rocking ending number that works on a fair basis.  Song seems out of place stylistically, in almost filler fashion. 9


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNpAbuF7yaI

[bigheadfred]

I always got Big Country confused with Tears For Fears.

@catfish1957

[catfish1957]

I always got Big Country confused with Tears For Fears.

@catfish1957

True Fred....

A lot of those mid '80's UK wuss bands sound almost exactly the same....  Tears for Fears, Duran Duran, Flock of Seagulls, Spandau Ballet, etc.

[catfish1957]

Classic Rock Album of the Day- Guns and Roses- Appetite for Destruction- (1987) *

In these reviews, I wanted to at least check all the genre boxes, and unfortunately "Hair Band era" is up.  '80's Hair Bands are up there with Disco as far as absurdity. There was nothing in the world of rock and roll as redundant and boring as the music made during this time frame.   

The so called "apex" band and album of the period was this one.  Did it ever sell, and dominate the airwaves.  But from my perspective, there was nothing unique or innovative with this shit.  Even their huge hits like Paradise City, Welcome to the Jungle, and Sweet Child of Mine added  nothing of value, and really were rehash riffs and runs that have been done a million times by hard rock bands of the '70's.  And a lead guitarist hiding his eyes while playing?  Page was doing that 20 years earlier.  And worst of all, and I know this isn't music related, is their and their ilk's bringing tatoos to the mainstream.  I'm sorry....  Unless you are a bad ass biker, sailor, or marine, there really isn't much reason to turn your body into a permanent canvass.  It should be a crime for a beautiful woman to ink.  It's like alowing  Bansky go to the Louve, and adding his grafitti to the Mona Lisa.

But back to the music....  If this is the "apex" this era has to offer the entire realm of Rock and Roll, that is a sad commentary indeed.  And after sitting listening to this for almost an hour, I am not going to even bother giving the run down of the content.  If you are so inclined,have at it .....  linked below.  And if you think I am off centered here in my criticism of GNR and Hair bands....   let me know.

Sorry, if I angered any of their fans out there, but IMO....  This band sucks.

Fun Fact: Or maybe un-fun.  In 2018 Axl Rose was allowed to join and tour with AC DC for the final legs of their tour while Brian Johnson recovered from illness.  Terrible choice.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpo9GZt43BU