AT&T, Verizon reject U.S. request to delay 5G wireless plans

[Elderberry]

abc News 1/2/2022

Verizon and AT&T have rejected a request by the U.S. government to delay the rollout of next-generation wireless technology

Verizon and AT&T have rejected a request by the U.S. government to delay the rollout of next-generation wireless technology.

A joint letter Sunday from the telecommunications giants to U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and Steve Dickson, the head of the Federal Aviation Administration, sought to dismiss concerns brought by U.S. airlines that a new 5G wireless service could harm aviation.

But Hans Vestberg, CEO of Verizon Communications, and John Stankey, CEO of AT&T, also wrote that they were willing to accept some temporary measures over the next six months to limit the service around certain airport runways.

More: https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/att-verizon-reject-us-request-delay-5g-wireless-82047484

[Smokin Joe]

What, precisely, is the issue, and how would it affect the airline industry?

Is there a question of safety involved for landing and takeoff or ATC operations?

[Hoodat]

I am not happy with the prospect of having my neighborhood littered with 5G towers showering my property with electromagnetic radiation.  And people wonder why autism keeps increasing?

[Elderberry]

What, precisely, is the issue, and how would it affect the airline industry?

Is there a question of safety involved for landing and takeoff or ATC operations?

Aircraft Operations and Radar Altimeter Interference from 5G

Air Line Pilots Association, International January 3, 2021?

http://www.alpa.org/resources/aircraft-operations-radar-altimeter-interference-5G

Background:

In early 2021, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) awarded the mobile wireless industry radio spectrum to operate 5G transmissions in the “C-Band,” or 3.7-3.98 GHz, adjacent to the spectrum used by radar altimeters. This approval was made despite the aviation industry informing the FCC since 2018 of the need to ensure that radar altimeters are protected from 5G interference.

In the United States, wireless broadband deployment will begin on January 5, 2022.

Canada has also approved 5G in the C-Band, but with restrictions against using C-Band in the vicinity of 26 airports and other measures to ensure aviation safety.

Flight Safety Concerns:

Radar altimeter interference from 5G signals can take the form of loss of radar altitude information or, worse, incorrect radar altitude information unknowingly being generated. There have been fatal accidents associated with incorrect radar altitude, most recently Turkish Airlines Flight 1951 in Amsterdam in 2009.

Altitude information derived from radar altimeters has been deeply integrated into aircraft systems and automation, with the latest aircraft using it to change aircraft handling qualities and prepare systems such as ground spoilers and thrust reversers for deployment prior to touchdown. This is in addition to radio altimeter use for autoland and in Category (CAT) II/III and Required Navigation Performance (RNP) AR approaches.

Federal Aviation Administration Actions:

•   In November 2021, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) issued a special airworthiness information bulletin (SAIB) alerting operators to the potential for severe restrictions in flight operations to ensure safety. An updated version, SAIB AIR-21-18R1, was published on December 23, 2021.

•   On December 7, 2021, the FAA issued a statement on 5G that includes an Airworthiness Directive (AD) intended to cover all transport category aircraft. The AD requires the following Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) revision that prohibits the following operations in the presence of possible 5G interference:

Figure 1 to paragraph (g)—AFM Revision     (Required by AD 2021-23-12)

Radio Altimeter Flight Restrictions

When operating in U.S. airspace, the following operations requiring radio altimeter are prohibited in the presence of 5G C-Band wireless broadband interference as identified by NOTAM (NOTAMs will be issued to state the specific airports where the radio altimeter is unreliable due to the presence of 5G C-Band wireless broadband interference):

•   Instrument Landing System (ILS) Instrument Approach Procedures (IAP) SA CAT I, SA CAT II, CAT II, and CAT III

•   Required Navigation Performance (RNP) Procedures with Authorization Required (AR), RNP AR IAP

•   Automatic Landing operations

•   Manual Flight Control Guidance System operations to landing/head-up display (HUD) to touchdown operation

•   Use of Enhanced Flight Vision System (EFVS) to touchdown under 14 CFR 91.176(a)

More at link.

[Smokin Joe]

Aircraft Operations and Radar Altimeter Interference from 5G

Air Line Pilots Association, International January 3, 2021?

http://www.alpa.org/resources/aircraft-operations-radar-altimeter-interference-5G

Is it really that important to be able to do stuff with a d@mned cell phone that, in light of the last two year's impact on the commercial aviation industry, they be the ones required to remodel their avionics or risk deadly crashes? The phone carriers are likely especially fat after two years of intermittent lockdowns, etc. prompting more of their product being used. In contrast, I doubt airlines are doing as well.

[DefiantMassRINO]

It's more Big Government SNAFU.

The FCC sold spectrum that may cause issues for the FAA.

I guess 5G interferes with the vacuum tubes that are still used by FAA's Air-Traffic-Control system computers.

[Smokin Joe]

It's more Big Government SNAFU.

The FCC sold spectrum that may cause issues for the FAA.

I guess 5G interferes with the vacuum tubes that are still used by FAA's Air-Traffic-Control system computers.

The FAA radars that still use those are often in really out-of-the-way places. They have leyden jars as part of the multiple redundancy backup systems, too.

But effing with radar altimeters just might be a problem while landing the plane.

Is streaming tiktok that important?

[rangerrebew]

Monday, January 03, 2022 ... 
Precautionary insanity invades the electromagnetic spectrum

Alarmism and hurtful, ludicrously ineffective methods to fight the overhyped threats have become an omnipresent part of policymaking and a giant pain in the aßes of those of us who aren't brainwashed morons (and especially those of us who often have to pay for this craze, unlike the fearmongers who usually benefit from the destruction instead).

It's common for millions of psychopaths to talk about climate threats and demand hundreds of medieval rituals claiming to improve the weather. The Wuhan virus and the corresponding respiratory disease, while very real, have been uselessly fought against by regulations whose total cost exceeded 10 if not 20 trillion dollars and most of which have had no detectable positive impact and many of which continue even now when the epidemics is demonstrably over.

But people can invent new kinds of alarm, can't they? The conspiracy theories about 5G have been associated with "truly independent", usually right-wing, folks who don't hide their negative attitude to standard science. For example, we've heard that 5G has killed birds. These low frequencies are extremely unlikely to cause any health issues in any organisms. Low-frequency radiation isn't ionizing and from the cells' viewpoint, they are just slow waves on the ocean.

https://motls.blogspot.com/2022/01/precautionary-insanity-invades.html

[Smokin Joe]

Apparently, they interfere with altimeters in use on commercial aircraft, systems that would cost fortunes to replace.

Those instruments are critical to the safe beginning and conclusion of flights and are interlaced with the avionics which permit planes to land themselves.

[Kamaji]

Apparently, they interfere with altimeters in use on commercial aircraft, systems that would cost fortunes to replace.

Those instruments are critical to the safe beginning and conclusion of flights and are interlaced with the avionics which permit planes to land themselves.

What's the mechanism for that interference?

[Elderberry]

Problem statement - 5G interference
with radar altimeter frequency band

https://www.icao.int/safety/FSMP/MeetingDocs/FSMP%20WG11/IP/FSMP-WG11-IP08_ICAO%20Flight%20Operations%20Panel%20and%20IATA%20%20IFALPA%205G%20problem%20statement.pdf

Introduction

Radar altimeters (RA), operating at 4.2-4.4 GHz, are the only sensors onboard a civil aircraft which provide a direct
measurement of the clearance height of the aircraft over the terrain or other obstacles (i.e. the Above Ground  Level
- AGL - information).

The RA systems’ input is required and used by many aircraft systems when AGL is below 2500 ft. Any failures or
interruptions of these sensors can therefore lead to incidents with catastrophic outcome, potentially resulting in
multiple fatalities. The radar altimeters also play a crucial role in providing situational awareness to the flight crew.
The measurements from the radar altimeters are also used by Automatic Flight Guidance and Control Systems
(AFGCS) during instrument approaches, and to control the display of information from other systems, such as
Predictive Wind Shear (PWS), the Engine-Indicating and Crew-Alerting System (EICAS), and Electronic Centralized
Aircraft Monitoring (ECAM) systems, to the flight crew.

There is a major risk that 5G telecommunications systems in the 3.7–3.98 GHz band will cause harmful interference
to radar altimeters on all types of civil aircraft—including commercial transport airplanes; business, regional, and
general aviation airplanes; and both transport and general aviation helicopters. If there is no proper mitigation, this
risk has the potential for broad impacts to aviation operations in the United States as well as in other regions where
the 5G network is being implemented next to the 4.2-4.4 GHz frequency band.

[Kamaji]

Problem statement - 5G interference
with radar altimeter frequency band

https://www.icao.int/safety/FSMP/MeetingDocs/FSMP%20WG11/IP/FSMP-WG11-IP08_ICAO%20Flight%20Operations%20Panel%20and%20IATA%20%20IFALPA%205G%20problem%20statement.pdf

Thanks.

That being said, they operate on different frequencies, so how would a 5G system interfere with a radar altimeter operating on a different frequency?

[Elderberry]

All they've been asking for is testing to prove that there is no interference before 5G goes active near airports. It appears that this request has fell on deaf ears.

[Elderberry]

Airlines, wireless companies announce deal on 5G deployment after aircraft interference concerns

American Military News by Jessica Wehrman 1/5/2022

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/01/att-verizon-reject-us-call-for-delay-in-new-5g-service/

Airlines and the telecommunications industry appeared to reach a detente late Monday in what had become an increasingly harsh disagreement over the scheduled Wednesday deployment of 5G technology using bandwidth that airlines said threatened the safety of air travel.

Both Verizon and AT&T, which bought a section of bandwidth last February for more than $80 billion, agreed to a two-week delay before using the frequencies, giving the Federal Aviation Administration time to explore measures to ensure it wouldn’t interfere with radar altimeters, which airplane and helicopter pilots use to help navigate during low-visibility situations.

The wireless companies on Monday agreed to measures comparable to those used in Europe to avoid interference.

“We’ve agreed to a two-week delay which promises the certainty of bringing this nation our game-changing 5G network in January,” Verizon announced. AT&T said it “voluntarily agreed to one additional two-week delay of our deployment of C-Band 5G services.” AT&T also said it is committed to a six-month protection zone around key U.S. airports to mitigate any interference.

[Hoodat]

5G has an effective range of about 1500 ft, so expect to see your local landscape littered with an abundance of new towers.  Tough luck for anyone suffering from MS.

[Elderberry]

FAA lists 50 airports that will have 5G buffer zones ahead of C-band expansion

The Verge By Emma Roth Jan 8, 2022,

AT&T and Verizon will shut down 5G transmitters for six months at these locations

With AT&T and Verizon set to bring their 5G expansion live on January 19th, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has chosen 50 airports (PDF) that will have buffer zones to help prevent flight disruptions (via Reuters and Wall Street Journal). Safety regulators picked airports based on location, traffic volume, and the likelihood of low visibility — all factors that may increase cancelations, delays, and diversions as both carriers roll out 5G C-band service.

As pointed out by the Wall Street Journal, notably busy airports like Chicago O’Hare, Orlando International, Los Angeles International, and Dallas / Fort Worth International are included on the list, along with airports in locations that are often impacted by foggy conditions, such as Seattle / Tacoma International and San Francisco International.

The FAA notes that AT&T and Verizon have agreed to turn off their 5G transmitters at these specific buffer zones for six months, which should “minimize potential 5G interference with sensitive aircraft instruments used in low-visibility landings.” Some airports — including major hubs like Hartsfield / Jackson International and Denver International — didn’t make the list, either because they aren’t in locations where 5G C-Band deployment will take place, or they can’t permit low-visibility landings.

More: https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/8/22873765/faa-verizon-att-airport-5g-carriers-buffer-zone

It doesn't say how wide the buffer zones are. I live abt 1,000 yds from HOU Airport. I guess I won't be getting 5G at my house for a while.

[Elderberry]

FAA clears way for some jets to fly within 5G airwaves

American Military News by Alan Levin - Bloomberg News  January 17, 2022

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/01/faa-clears-way-for-some-jets-to-fly-within-5g-airwaves/

U.S. aviation regulators granted approvals that will allow some jetliners to operate within zones where new 5G wireless services are set to begin Wednesday, significantly reducing the potential impact on flight schedules.

The Federal Aviation Administration said on Sunday airline manufacturers had shown that the mobile-phone signals won’t cause interference with critical aircraft equipment on certain Airbus SE and Boeing Co. models.

New 5G services by AT&T Inc. and Verizon Communications Inc. set to begin across numerous communities in the U.S. broadcast on radio waves that are adjacent to those used by so-called radar altimeters on thousands of airliners, helicopters and other aircraft. Tests showed that the altimeters could give false readings in the presence of 5G signals.

“Even with these new approvals, flights at some airports may still be affected,” the FAA said in an emailed statement. “Passengers should check with their airlines if weather is forecast at a destination where 5G interference is possible.”

[Kamaji]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if any get knocked out of the air.  Not a particularly good way to go about testing the effects, IMHO.