Trump: America's Greatness Happened Because of 'Jesus Christ and His Followers and His Church'

[libertybele]

Trump: America's Greatness Happened Because of 'Jesus Christ and His Followers and His Church'

Speaking at First Baptist Dallas church on Sunday, former President Donald Trump stressed that the great achievements in America are due precisely to the Judeo-Christian beliefs and practices of its citizens.

"[N]one of this could’ve ever happened without Jesus Christ and His followers and His church. None of it," said Trump.

First Baptist Dallas, founded in 1868, has an estimated 14,000 members and is headed by Pastor Robert Jeffress, 66.  Jeffress served on Trump's Evangelical Advisory Board and White House Faith Initiative............

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/trump-americas-greatness-happened-because-jesus-christ-and-his-followers-and

[The_Reader_David]

In this, Trump is absolutely correct.  The American conception of natural rights and of the inherent dignity of the human person (which are the basis for American greatness), and indeed the modern conception of persons itself, are all Christian in origin.  I would even argue that the modern conception of person was first worked out to say who and what, a particular person, Our Lord Jesus Christ is, by the seven Ecumenical Councils of the ancient and undivided Church.

[libertybele]

Our country was founded upon Christian principles.

[Absalom]

In this, Trump is absolutely correct.  The American conception of natural rights and of the inherent dignity of the human person (which are the basis for American greatness), and indeed the modern conception of persons itself, are all Christian in origin.  I would even argue that the modern conception of person was first worked out to say who and what, a particular person, Our Lord Jesus Christ is, by the seven Ecumenical Councils of the ancient and undivided Church.

----------------------------
Hmm...........Trumpet, desperate for attention, calls on Jesus??? How sanctimonious!
Suggest one of his Disciples alert Trump that Jesus Christ did not found the United States.
Ancient Greece & Rome were the founders of Western Civilization, culture and society,
as it now exists, over some 3.000 years past.
In the 3rd Century AD, Emperor Constantine transitioned Rome from it's Pagan heritage
to Roman Catholicism, the religious heritage/legacy that birthed the Europe of today.
Our Founder was Britannia, created by Rome as well as the Anglo Saxons, Normans,
Celts and Scots over many centuries.
Concepts and precepts, such as the Natural Law and Human Nature are eternal.

[The_Reader_David]

.
Concepts and precepts, such as the Natural Law and Human Nature are eternal.

No, natural law and human nature are not eternal, but are created, with a beginning.  Only the One God, the All-Holy Trinity is eternal.  Nor does your account explain as mine does how the understanding of the human person on which the American (or more generally Anglo-Saxon) concept of human rights is based arise only in the context of Christian civilization (cf. the lack of understanding of any individual human rights in Chinese civilization or the Kingdom of Benin).

(BTW, The Isapostolos Constantine the Great did not found "Roman Catholicism".  He got the ancient and undivided Church to settle a controversy over whether Our Lord Jesus Christ is, in fact, God, or whether the Son was created.  You might notice the title I gave the sainted Emperor. I am an Orthodox Christian, and we, unlike Roman Catholics, have him in our calendar of saints.  Christianity only later became the state religion of the Empire during the reign of St. Theodosius the Emperor.  However, Roman Catholicism was founded in the 11th century when the Latin Papacy separated itself from the Church, which until that point included the five Patriarchates based within the bounds of the Roman Empire at its largest extent, the Church of Cyprus, and an autocephalous Bulgarian Church -- the Russian Church was still part of the Patriarchate of Constantinple at that point -- and set up on its own, claiming authority for the Pope of Rome that was denied by earlier Popes (St. Gregory the Dialogist explicitly rejected the notion of a patriarch with universal jurisdiction) and which would make nonsense of some of the canons of the ancient church had it been held when they were promulgated.)

[Absalom]

No, natural law and human nature are not eternal, but are created, with a beginning.  Only the One God, the All-Holy Trinity is eternal.  Nor does your account explain as mine does how the understanding of the human person on which the American (or more generally Anglo-Saxon) concept of human rights is based arise only in the context of Christian civilization (cf. the lack of understanding of any individual human rights in Chinese civilization or the Kingdom of Benin).

(BTW, The Isapostolos Constantine the Great did not found "Roman Catholicism".  He got the ancient and undivided Church to settle a controversy over whether Our Lord Jesus Christ is, in fact, God, or whether the Son was created.  You might notice the title I gave the sainted Emperor. I am an Orthodox Christian, and we, unlike Roman Catholics, have him in our calendar of saints.  Christianity only later became the state religion of the Empire during the reign of St. Theodosius the Emperor.  However, Roman Catholicism was founded in the 11th century when the Latin Papacy separated itself from the Church, which until that point included the five Patriarchates based within the bounds of the Roman Empire at its largest extent, the Church of Cyprus, and an autocephalous Bulgarian Church -- the Russian Church was still part of the Patriarchate of Constantinple at that point -- and set up on its own, claiming authority for the Pope of Rome that was denied by earlier Popes (St. Gregory the Dialogist explicitly rejected the notion of a patriarch with universal jurisdiction) and which would make nonsense of some of the canons of the ancient church had it been held when they were promulgated.)

-----------------------------
Suggest you listen up, perhaps learn something, get off your high horse while parking your comedy routine.
Natural Law and Human Nature are eternal Essences, emphatically NOT "stuff created" over time, the measure
of material matters.
They were uncovered thru logic & reason by the wisest who ever walked the earth, among them Plato & Aristotle,
then much later by Scholastics such as Duns Scotus, Aquinas, Abelard, Ockham and Albertus, among dozens.
As for Roman Catholicism, it was founded by a Galilean, Jesus Christ of Judea.
Three centuries later, Emperor Constantine transitioned it to replace Paganism within the Roman Empire and it
evolved into the dominant religion across Europe up to the present.

[LegalAmerican]

----------------------------
Hmm...........Trumpet, desperate for attention, calls on Jesus??? How sanctimonious!
Suggest one of his Disciples alert Trump that Jesus Christ did not found the United States.
Ancient Greece & Rome were the founders of Western Civilization, culture and society,
as it now exists, over some 3.000 years past.
In the 3rd Century AD, Emperor Constantine transitioned Rome from it's Pagan heritage
to Roman Catholicism, the religious heritage/legacy that birthed the Europe of today.
Our Founder was Britannia, created by Rome as well as the Anglo Saxons, Normans,
Celts and Scots over many centuries.
Concepts and precepts, such as the Natural Law and Human Nature are eternal.

NO. You just can't stop your jealousy and envy of TRUMP. Education does not mean you are smart.  You just memorized well. 

[Absalom]

NO. You just can't stop your jealousy and envy of Trump. Education does not mean you are smart.  You just memorized well.

------------------------------
No normal person is envious/jealous of Trumpet.
No matter, as his time is fading quickly, despite the delusions of his Disciples

[roamer_1]

----------------------------
Hmm...........Trumpet, desperate for attention, calls on Jesus??? How sanctimonious!
Suggest one of his Disciples alert Trump that Jesus Christ did not found the United States.
Ancient Greece & Rome were the founders of Western Civilization, culture and society,
as it now exists, over some 3.000 years past.
In the 3rd Century AD, Emperor Constantine transitioned Rome from it's Pagan heritage
to Roman Catholicism, the religious heritage/legacy that birthed the Europe of today.
Our Founder was Britannia, created by Rome as well as the Anglo Saxons, Normans,
Celts and Scots over many centuries.
Concepts and precepts, such as the Natural Law and Human Nature are eternal.

While we tend to agree generally @Absalom, I will rise to draw a direct line within the scope you describe... That line embraces Natural law and Human nature, but rises specifically out of Christendom. And more than that, the brightest line toward liberty within Christendom's philosophy rises forth from very specifically Protestant Christian mores.

Without a single doubt, Great Britain would not be Great without that Protestantism, and the United States would not have risen as we know it. In that there can be no argument.

The argument would be in Tumpy having the historical wherewithal to declare it. 

[Absalom]

While we tend to agree generally @Absalom, I will rise to draw a direct line within the scope you describe... That line embraces Natural law and Human nature, but rises specifically out of Christendom. And more than that, the brightest line toward liberty within Christendom's philosophy rises forth from very specifically Protestant Christian mores.
Without a single doubt, Great Britain would not be Great without that Protestantism, and the United States would not have risen as we know it. In that there can be no argument.
The argument would be in Tumpy having the historical wherewithal to declare it. 

--------------------------------
Roamer, provocative and powerful; so permit reflection before a response.

[sneakypete]

------------------------------
No normal person is envious/jealous of Trumpet.
No matter, as his time is fading quickly, despite the delusions of his Disciples

@Absalom

You really are unhinged when it comes to Trump. He lives inside your head 24/7.

[Absalom]

@Absalom
You really are unhinged when it comes to Trump. He lives inside your head 24/7.

------------------------
Hmm............as my sons insist;
"Dad, at least you have a head w/something inside
other than campaign slogans extolling Trumpty Dumpty."
Anyway, Merry Christmas.

[sneakypete]

------------------------
Hmm............as my sons insist;
"Dad, at least you have a head w/something inside
other than campaign slogans extolling Trumpty Dumpty."
Anyway, Merry Christmas.

@Absalom

Ok,so your sons are fools,too. No surprise there. It runs in families.

[Absalom]

-------
Roamer, provocative and powerful; so permit reflection before a response.

-----------------------------
Again permit a reflection to set a tone.
In my opinion, Plato remains the greatest Mind ever created by the Almighty, as he identified
and defined the Psyche (Soul) of Man, some 4 centuries before Christ and Roman Catholicism.
This Essence was the foundation and catalyst/driver for the religious/spiritual sensibilities that
permitted and fostered the creation/development of the cultures and societies of Europe.
As North Whitehead observed: "The massive European philosophical tradition consists of a series
of footnotes to the ideas birthed by Plato"
Unfortunately, in my judgement, the French Enlightenment changed that earlier 2,000-year
dynamic and emphatically for the worse, a reality we pay for every day, yet how???
Because the core of our sensibilities are now driven by materialism, effectively replacing
spiritualism, a reality that should be as obvious as 2+2=4.
Suggest any doubters take a serious look at the condition of our structured Religions.

[roamer_1]

-----------------------------
Again permit a reflection to set a tone.
In my opinion, Plato remains the greatest Mind ever created by the Almighty, as he identified
and defined the Psyche (Soul) of Man, some 4 centuries before Christ and Roman Catholicism.
This Essence was the foundation and catalyst/driver for the religious/spiritual sensibilities that
permitted and fostered the creation/development of the cultures and societies of Europe.
As North Whitehead observed: "The massive European philosophical tradition consists of a series
of footnotes to the ideas birthed by Plato"
Unfortunately, in my judgement, the French Enlightenment changed that earlier 2,000-year
dynamic and emphatically for the worse, a reality we pay for every day, yet how???

@Absalom
I would suggest a hard look at the antithesis... History is written by the victors. Meanwhile, some that the Greeks and Romans declared barbarians often had better examples of truth, justice, and art - And that, Natural Law practiced naturally... What Plato observed is astute, no doubt - But it already existed otherwise.

Because the core of our sensibilities are now driven by materialism, effectively replacing
spiritualism, a reality that should be as obvious as 2+2=4.
Suggest any doubters take a serious look at the condition of our structured Religions.

Again... A look at the antithesis. Looking at the Holy Roman Empire and it's writings will cause you to miss what ran to the wilderness before it... Look not at the Franks and the destruction they caused in the name of the pope. Look at what fled before it - From the Languidoc  and Aragon to Brittany, and on to Briton. Look at the Goodmen, high in their mountain strongholds, wandering out of those mountains over and over again, itinerant, speaking truth in spite of the tyranny promoted into Feudalism....

The non-Galatian Celts, the Northern tribes,  were never conquered by Rome... The Alps remained free even under the Holy Roman empire... In these you will find those who would not bow. Who fled to fight another day, outside of the 'civilization' proscribed by tyranny... Beyond it's reach.

That is what finally coalesced in Britain only to flee once again across the pond.

There is history, and there is memory... Thesis and antithesis... Antithesis tells a better story.
 

[Absalom]

@Absalom
I would suggest a hard look at the antithesis. History is written by the victors. Meanwhile, some that the Greeks and Romans declared barbarians often had better examples of truth, justice, and art - and that, Natural Law practiced naturally. What Plato observed is astute, no doubt - but already existed otherwise.
Again, look at the antithesis. Looking at the Holy Roman Empire and it's writings will cause you to miss what ran to the wilderness before it. Look not at the Franks and the destruction they caused in the name of the pope. Look at what fled before it - From the Languedoc and Aragon to Brittany, and on to Briton. Look at the Goodmen, high in their mountain strongholds, wandering out of those mountains over and over again, itinerant, speaking truth in spite of the tyranny promoted into Feudalism....
The non-Galatian Celts, the Northern tribes, were never conquered by Rome. The Alps remained free even under the Holy Roman empire. In these you will find those who would not bow. Who fled to fight another day, outside of the 'civilization' proscribed by tyranny. Beyond it's reach.
That is what finally coalesced in Britain only to flee once again across the pond.
There is history, and there is memory. Thesis and antithesis. Antithesis tells a better story.

-----------------------------
Roamer, provocative and thoughtful as always; yet sadly your words
will be ignored by those whose only purpose in life is to make noise.
You reminded me of several quoted thoughts of Plato, namely;
* The Wise speak, as they have something to say, while the Fool speaks because his inner urges compel it.
* Man's opportunities in life include wisdom, honor and worldly gain, each of which define him to history.
Will be continued in due course.

[The_Reader_David]

I think it is you who are on a high horse and could learn something.  The Holy Fathers of the First Ecumenical Council stated it succinctly, in setting forth what Orthodox Christians are called to believe:  "I believe in One God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible..."

Natural law is one of the invisible things (along with the laws of logic, space, time,...) , as are those aspect of human nature (the soul, the nous,...) not inherent in our visible bodies (which are, of course, among the visible things).  Only the All-Holy Trinity is eternal.  All things have their beginning in His creation.  There is a reason the Holy Spirit moved the Fathers to say "visible and invisible" rather than "material and spiritual": the invisible part of creation is a good deal more extensive than the spiritual realm only.

Obviously as an Orthodox Christian I do not credit the Papal claims on which rest your assertion that the Latin Church (commonly called "Roman Catholic") was founded by Our Lord.  It was founded by arrogant Popes of Rome who separated their partriachate from the Church in the 11th century, making it clear they no longer confessed the same Faith by forcibly installing Latin bishops into already occupied sees in the Patriarchates of Antioch and Jerusalem (neither of which had broken communion with Rome during the dispute over the Diptychs which you Latins used to date your schism) at the time of the First Crusade. 

The Church Our Lord, or rather the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost in the year of Our Lord's Saving Crucifixion, founded, referred to in the part of the Creed composed by the Fathers of the Second Ecumenical Council as the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church", is now most commonly called "the Orthodox Church".

[dfwgator]

------------------------------
No normal person is envious/jealous of Trumpet.
No matter, as his time is fading quickly, despite the delusions of his Disciples

And what pray tell do you think he'll be replaced with?   I guarantee you ain't gonna like it.

[libertybele]

All this squabble and Trump hasn't even formally announced that he's running in 24.  He's supposed to make that decision after the mid terms. I don't blame him. If the DEMS manage to steal elections during the mid terms, and Ronna and the GOP haven't put systems in place to stop the steal, then it'll be futile for him to run.

[Hoodat]

----------------------------
Hmm...........Trumpet, desperate for attention, calls on Jesus??? How sanctimonious!

Trump would draw your attention if he walked out to his mailbox to check his mail.

[mountaineer]

the great achievements in America are due precisely to the Judeo-Christian beliefs and practices of its citizens.

Fact check: true.

Sorry, Ab.

[Absalom]

Fact check: true.
Sorry, Ab.

--------------------
The greatest achievement of the United States was in advancing the
material betterment of Industrialism, across our nation and the world.
Judeo-Christian Principles and Jesus Christ had nothing to do w/this.
What the heck are you talking about!!!!!!!!!!

[Hoodat]

--------------------
The greatest achievement of the United States was in advancing the
material betterment of Industrialism, across our nation and the world.

You clearly have us confused with the UK.

[Absalom]

I think it is you who are on a high horse and could learn something.  The Holy Fathers of the First Ecumenical Council stated it succinctly, in setting forth what Orthodox Christians are called to believe:  "I believe in One God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible..."
Natural law is one of the invisible things (along with the laws of logic, space, time,...) , as are those aspect of human nature (the soul, the nous,...) not inherent in our visible bodies (which are, of course, among the visible things).  Only the All-Holy Trinity is eternal.  All things have their beginning in His creation.  There is a reason the Holy Spirit moved the Fathers to say "visible and invisible" rather than "material and spiritual": the invisible part of creation is a good deal more extensive than the spiritual realm only.
Obviously as an Orthodox Christian I do not credit the Papal claims on which rest your assertion that the Latin Church (commonly called "Roman Catholic") was founded by Our Lord.  It was founded by arrogant Popes of Rome who separated their partriachate from the Church in the 11th century, making it clear they no longer confessed the same Faith by forcibly installing Latin bishops into already occupied sees in the Patriarchates of Antioch and Jerusalem (neither of which had broken communion with Rome during the dispute over the Diptychs which you Latins used to date your schism) at the time of the First Crusade. 
The Church Our Lord, or rather the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost in the year of Our Lord's Saving Crucifixion, founded, referred to in the part of the Creed composed by the Fathers of the Second Ecumenical Council as the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church", is now most commonly called "the Orthodox Church".

---------------------------------
I learn from the reflections of any & all, yet nothing from scatterbrains
who cannot focus on a coherent, supported and unified message.
Suggest you cease your prayer orations when posting and focus on
whatever point you are attempting to make.

[mountaineer]