Author Topic: Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine  (Read 218 times)

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rangerrebew

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Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine
« on: November 05, 2021, 12:14:32 pm »
 Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine
A separate safety investigation is still proceeding into the Oct. 2 grounding of USS Connecticut.
 
By Caitlin M. Kenney
Staff Reporter
November 4, 2021 12:00 PM ET


Updated 4:11 p.m.

The captain and two other leaders of the USS Connecticut were relieved for “loss of confidence” after the submarine hit an underwater mountain in the South China Sea, the Navy announced Thursday.

A command investigation into the Oct. 2 incident found that the Seawolf-class nuclear attack submarine grounded on an uncharted seamount while operating in international waters, U.S. 7th Fleet said Monday.

7th Fleet commander Vice Adm. Karl Thomas reviewed the investigation and on Thursday relieved Cmdr. Cameron Aljilani, the commanding officer; Lt. Cmdr. Patrick Cashin, the executive officer; and Master Chief Sonar Technician Cory Rodgers, Chief of the Boat, 7th Fleet said in a Thursday statement.

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2021/11/whos-blame-navy-reviewing-investigation-grounded-sub-secretary-says/186628/

rangerrebew

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Re: Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2021, 12:16:30 pm »
I'm no submariner but this now has the stench of a Navy coverup of some sort.  If they hit an uncharted, under sea mountain, why are people being canned? :shrug:

Offline ironhorsedriver

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Re: Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2021, 09:03:06 pm »
Why the COB, He makes no operational command decisions? Smells funny.

Online DB

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Re: Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2021, 09:13:52 pm »
I'm no submariner but this now has the stench of a Navy coverup of some sort.  If they hit an uncharted, under sea mountain, why are people being canned? :shrug:

If the sonar operator should have been able to detect the uncharted sea mountain under the operating conditions he was under then that is a major problem, especially if the sonar was in active mode.

But if they were operating silently (passive sonar) and the equipment on board was not able to reasonably detect the uncharted sea mountain then I don't see how it would have been the sonar operator's fault. Perhaps the captain should not have been operating with passive sonar only in those particular waters if there was the possibility of uncharted sea mountains in their planned path.

The big question in my mind is was this "uncharted" sea mountain man made or not.


Offline sneakypete

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Re: Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2021, 01:00:36 am »
I'm no submariner but this now has the stench of a Navy coverup of some sort.  If they hit an uncharted, under sea mountain, why are people being canned? :shrug:

@rangerrebew

The more I think about this,the more it occurs to me this is normal conduct for a bureaucracy that has screwed up,and trying desperately to cover their tracks by blaming the accident on the peons they ordered to do what they were doing when the accident happened.

After all,who is going to believe a couple of middle-rank officers who have already been canned for incompetence?

The US Navy,especially is known for this sort of thing. Flag officers are mini-deities whose judgement must NEVER be questioned!
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2021, 01:08:46 am »
Why the COB, He makes no operational command decisions? Smells funny.

@ironhorsedriver

I asked the same question on another thread,and no one answered.

MY best GUESS is that as COB,he is the one enlisted swine aboard the sub who is likely to have had full knowledge of the orders received and the CO's efforts to follow those orders.

Plus,he is already an E-9 with enough time in to retire,so chances are that people would listen to him because he has nothing to gain or to lose because he was just an observer,not a decision maker.

An observer whose testimony is VERY likely to be believed if it ever went to a court-martial and he testified in court. If you are ever court-martialed and an E-9 testifies,you damn sure want him to be testifying for the defense. If he is testifying for the prosecution,you are done.

Anybody out there who thinks that an E-9 in any branch of the military doesn't have any influence is someone who has never served. I have personally known of one case where a foolish Major (0-4) got in a SF E-9's face,and less than a week later he was going off to his new assignment to a conventional unit in Alaska where he wouldn't even be able to draw jump pay.

AFAIK,not even the other officers had any sympathy for that fool. He asked for it,and he got it.

E-9's have powers so far above their actual ranks and positions of authority  that you have to see one get pissed and go into action to believe it.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2021, 01:12:23 am by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2021, 07:06:45 am »
@rangerrebew

The more I think about this,the more it occurs to me this is normal conduct for a bureaucracy that has screwed up,and trying desperately to cover their tracks by blaming the accident on the peons they ordered to do what they were doing when the accident happened.

After all,who is going to believe a couple of middle-rank officers who have already been canned for incompetence?

The US Navy,especially is known for this sort of thing. Flag officers are mini-deities whose judgement must NEVER be questioned!
Precisely. If the heads stop rolling below flag rank, they are safe at the top.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2021, 07:08:39 am »
If the sonar operator should have been able to detect the uncharted sea mountain under the operating conditions he was under then that is a major problem, especially if the sonar was in active mode.

But if they were operating silently (passive sonar) and the equipment on board was not able to reasonably detect the uncharted sea mountain then I don't see how it would have been the sonar operator's fault. Perhaps the captain should not have been operating with passive sonar only in those particular waters if there was the possibility of uncharted sea mountains in their planned path.

The big question in my mind is was this "uncharted" sea mountain man made or not.
If it was man made, there is a failure in intelligence somewhere. Vessel movements in the area should have exposed someone sitting idle long enough to dump the material to build up the mound.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2021, 07:09:41 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online rustynail

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Re: Navy Fires Commander, Other Leaders of Damaged Submarine
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2021, 12:01:40 pm »