Author Topic: Barrett and Kavanaugh Supply Majority to Deny Religious-Liberty Claim on Vaccine Mandate  (Read 818 times)

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Offline libertybele

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Barrett and Kavanaugh Supply Majority to Deny Religious-Liberty Claim on Vaccine Mandate

They joined Roberts and the Court’s progressives in declining relief to Maine health-care providers, who must now be vaccinated against their beliefs or lose their jobs.

 L ate Friday, Justices Amy Coney Barrett and Brett Kavanaugh joined Chief Justice John Roberts and the Supreme Court’s three progressives in denying a preliminary injunction to a group of medical professionals who sought to be exempted from Maine’s vaccine mandate because of their religious convictions.

Justice Neil Gorsuch filed a compelling dissent in the case, John Does 1-3 v. Mills, joined by his fellow conservative justices, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito. The dissenters stressed that, besides being likely to win on the merits, the religious objectors were merely asking to maintain the status quo — to keep their jobs despite being unvaccinated — while the Court decided whether to grant a full review of their case. In turning them down, Barrett and Kavanaugh dodged the weighty civil-rights issues, seeing the case, instead, as an opportunity to gripe about the Court’s emergency docket.

Maine now requires certain health-care workers to be vaccinated or face the loss of their jobs and medical practices. Unlike many such mandates, Maine’s does not provide an exemption for religious objectors. The plaintiffs are medical professionals who object to the vaccine, and thus the mandate, based on their Christian faith. Specifically, because fetal tissue from terminated pregnancies was used in developing the approved vaccines, the plaintiffs see immunization as an implicit endorsement of abortion, in violation of their religious beliefs. The sincerity of those beliefs is not in dispute.

The plaintiffs made an emergency application for a preliminary injunction. In his dissent from the 6–3 majority’s refusal to grant that application, Gorsuch explained that the main issues on such an injunction request are whether the applicants are likely to succeed on the merits and, if so, whether they would suffer irreparable harm in the absence of an injunction. Gorsuch proceeded to make a strong case that the claimants would prevail on both issues.

Religious liberty is fundamental, expressly protected by the First Amendment. Under currently controlling precedent (which, as I’ve previously detailed, is disputed), a law that impinges on religion may survive if it is both neutral (i.e., not hostile to religion) and generally applicable (i.e., imposed on everyone equally). Maine’s vaccine mandate does not meet this standard because it provides for individualized exemptions. Though medical professionals are not excused from compliance based on their religious beliefs, they needn’t comply if they get a note from a health-care provider claiming that, in their cases, immunization “may be” medically inadvisable.......................

https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/10/barrett-and-kavanaugh-supply-majority-to-deny-religious-liberty-claim-on-vaccine-mandate/
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Hoodat

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Not seeing how the First Amendment applies here.  The people of Maine have the right to choose their own laws.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline LegalAmerican

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Not seeing how the First Amendment applies here.  The people of Maine have the right to choose their own laws.

 Correct.  In their own state.  STATES RIGHTS. 

Offline EdinVA

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Correct.  In their own state.  STATES RIGHTS.
States rights still do not override the constitution.

Offline LegalAmerican

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States rights still do not override the constitution.

What are you saying to me?  Just to talk and be contrary? 

Offline Hoodat

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States rights still do not override the constitution.

How is the Constitution being overridden here?

(Note:  I do not agree at all with what Maine has done, but there isn't any thing here that violates the US Constitution)
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Not seeing how the First Amendment applies here.  The people of Maine have the right to choose their own laws.

Quote
Religious liberty is fundamental, expressly protected by the First Amendment. Under currently controlling precedent (which, as I’ve previously detailed, is disputed), a law that impinges on religion may survive if it is both neutral (i.e., not hostile to religion) and generally applicable (i.e., imposed on everyone equally).

Maine’s vaccine mandate does not meet this standard because it provides for individualized exemptions. Though medical professionals are not excused from compliance based on their religious beliefs, they needn’t comply if they get a note from a health-care provider claiming that, in their cases, immunization “may be” medically inadvisable.......................


Quote
Gorsuch explained that the main issues on such an injunction request are whether the applicants are likely to succeed on the merits and, if so, whether they would suffer irreparable harm in the absence of an injunction. Gorsuch proceeded to make a strong case that the claimants would prevail on both issues.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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States rights still do not override the constitution.

If you're saying Maine cannot override First Amendment protections and guarantees, I agree.  If not, please explain.

Thanks.

Offline sneakypete

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Quote
The plaintiffs are medical professionals who object to the vaccine, and thus the mandate, based on their Christian faith.

As a proud Heathen who is NOT a medical professional,I STRONGLY object to the phrasing and implication above. WHY is it stated in such a way as to imply that ONLY Christians can object to how this vaccine is created by the process (use of fetal tissue) stated below?


Specifically, because fetal tissue from terminated pregnancies was used in developing the approved vaccines, the plaintiffs see immunization as an implicit endorsement of abortion, in violation of their religious beliefs.

Quote
The sincerity of those beliefs is not in dispute.

WHY are the sincerity of MY beliefs in dispute,simply because I am not a Christian?

Would the sincerity of a Jews beliefs be questioned,for example?

Isn't THAT phrasing,which implies that ONLY Christians can be morally offended by this medical process enough for an appeal?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2021, 08:24:16 am by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline EdinVA

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What are you saying to me?  Just to talk and be contrary?
Mob rule cannot overrule the constitution so no matter what laws the state passes, they cannot obviate your rights, ie 2a or religious liberty, no matter what.
Now some staes, if not all, have provisions for a declared state of emergency for limited duration and the state must follow it's own rules and not just give the governor a pen and a phone..

Offline Hoodat

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Having second thoughts on this, and would like to change my opinion.

First off, this is an injunction and not a decision.  Gorsuch, et al. make a compelling argument that the status quo should be maintained until a decision is rendered.

Having said that, I stand by my original opinion regarding religious liberty as it pertains to Amendment I.  However, a better way to approach this case is by making a due process argument via Amendment XIV, but only for those workers who previously had no vaccination requisites.

For certain health care workers, there was already a requirement in place to have certain vaccines.  That rule has been amended to include the mRNA jab.  But the problem lies with other workers (such as EMS workers) that did not fall under that category.  These workers have now been reclassified and are now included with the other group, all done without legislative approval.  This violates due process.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline libertybele

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The duty of the SCOTUS is to rule on the Constitutionality of law, not make law.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline sneakypete

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The duty of the SCOTUS is to rule on the Constitutionality of law, not make law.

@libertybele

Yew muz be wunnadose radical hippies ah bin hearin bout!

Weeza watchin yew,boy!
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline roamer_1

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WHY are the sincerity of MY beliefs in dispute,simply because I am not a Christian?

It does not exclude your beliefs @sneakypete  - It just may not include them. Christian beliefs are on the record.

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Would the sincerity of a Jews beliefs be questioned,for example?

No. Jewish beliefs are not in question and are protected (or discarded) with the Christians. Likewise, their ethical mores are on the record.

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Isn't THAT phrasing,which implies that ONLY Christians can be morally offended by this medical process enough for an appeal?

No.Your inclusion is not prerequisite. Were the right preserved for the Christian, your AGREEMENT with that belief would be your means of inclusion, just like it would preserve the belief of the Jew, or Mohammedan. In fact, since it is a primary long-held principle among Conservatives, you have an easy in-group to lean upon outside of Christian faith itself... Not that it should matter. You CAN agree with Christians sometimes.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 02:45:16 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline roamer_1

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First off, this is an injunction and not a decision.  Gorsuch, et al. make a compelling argument that the status quo should be maintained until a decision is rendered.


I will disagree. Profoundly. To err on the side of the angels would be a stay that preserved the right of dissenters until the decision is made. If they wind up backing the state, no harm except a temporary shelter. However, if the decision lands on the side of upholding the religious right, then who knows how many thousands would have been compelled, or may have lost their jobs during your 'status quo' maintenance?

This is wrong.

Quote
Having said that, I stand by my original opinion regarding religious liberty as it pertains to Amendment I.  However, a better way to approach this case is by making a due process argument via Amendment XIV, but only for those workers who previously had no vaccination requisites.

For certain health care workers, there was already a requirement in place to have certain vaccines.  That rule has been amended to include the mRNA jab.  But the problem lies with other workers (such as EMS workers) that did not fall under that category.  These workers have now been reclassified and are now included with the other group, all done without legislative approval.  This violates due process.

Foremost, it is not a 'vaccine'. It is a gene therapy, and should not enjoy any precedence allowed for vaccines.

But that does not exclude a religious exemption either way.

Offline Kamaji

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I will disagree. Profoundly. To err on the side of the angels would be a stay that preserved the right of dissenters until the decision is made. If they wind up backing the state, no harm except a temporary shelter. However, if the decision lands on the side of upholding the religious right, then who knows how many thousands would have been compelled, or may have lost their jobs during your 'status quo' maintenance?

This is wrong.

Foremost, it is not a 'vaccine'. It is a gene therapy, and should not enjoy any precedence allowed for vaccines.

But that does not exclude a religious exemption either way.


Agreed.  Irreparable harm will befall the plaintiffs if they are forced to get vaxxed against their beliefs, and then they subsequently win a judgment vindicating those beliefs, while the government will suffer no more than a temporary delay, at most.

Offline roamer_1

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Quote from: the OP
Maine’s vaccine mandate does not meet this standard because it provides for individualized exemptions. Though medical professionals are not excused from compliance based on their religious beliefs, they needn’t comply if they get a note from a health-care provider claiming that, in their cases, immunization “may be” medically inadvisable.......................


BOGUS. How does a note from your doctor excusing you under a physical imperative have anything at all to do with the ethical imperative?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 03:03:38 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline Restored

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Refusing a vaccine is not a religious exemption unless your religion causes you to refuse all of them (Christian Scientists, Amish). Using religion just as an excuse to do or not do something is not protected by the Constitution. Otherwise, would have people driving around without a license, insurance and tags because..."my religion" or smoking Weed in prison because..."my religion".

By this time next year, the Democrats will be telling us that was no mandate. Taking the vaccine was never mandatory at least as far as the government is concerned. It was all just Republicans trying to scare people. It will be like the CRT strategy where they put CRT in schools and then swear it doesn't exist.
Countdown to Resignation

Offline roamer_1

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Refusing a vaccine is not a religious exemption unless your religion causes you to refuse all of them (Christian Scientists, Amish). Using religion just as an excuse to do or not do something is not protected by the Constitution. Otherwise, would have people driving around without a license, insurance and tags because..."my religion" or smoking Weed in prison because..."my religion".

That is simply not true. Because I eat, I must eat pork? What kinda bullcrap is that?



Offline Hoodat

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I will disagree. Profoundly. To err on the side of the angels would be a stay that preserved the right of dissenters until the decision is made. If they wind up backing the state, no harm except a temporary shelter. However, if the decision lands on the side of upholding the religious right, then who knows how many thousands would have been compelled, or may have lost their jobs during your 'status quo' maintenance?

This is wrong.

Read again.  You and Gorsuch are on the same side here.  By maintaining the 'status quo', Gorsuch argues that the new rule should not be implemented until the case is decided, thus protecting those contesting the rule.  Again, the argument is compelling.


Foremost, it is not a 'vaccine'. It is a gene therapy, and should not enjoy any precedence allowed for vaccines.

That is a separate argument, albeit one with considerable merit.  I do not think plaintiffs will win on First Amendment religious grounds, but they certainly could on due process (e.g. no gene therapy precedence as a vaccine).
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline roamer_1

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Read again.  You and Gorsuch are on the same side here.  By maintaining the 'status quo', Gorsuch argues that the new rule should not be implemented until the case is decided, thus protecting those contesting the rule.  Again, the argument is compelling.

Right. My ire is directed at the injunction in favor of the status quo == state authority over religious matters, which is how it came down, Gorsuch (et al) notwithstanding.

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That is a separate argument, albeit one with considerable merit.  I do not think plaintiffs will win on First Amendment religious grounds, but they certainly could on due process (e.g. no gene therapy precedence as a vaccine).

Right. You'll note in my statement that I had made that distinction.

I CERTAINLY will not comply on religious grounds, foremost. Compelling me to inject aborted children into my blood is evil, plain and simple, under the color of law. I don't give a single sh*t what anyone says about it. I will die upon that hill. So the 1A issue is paramount to me, and Congress shall write no law... Religious right is sacrosanct. probably more than ANY other.

Offline Hoodat

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I CERTAINLY will not comply on religious grounds, foremost. Compelling me to inject aborted children into my blood is evil, plain and simple, under the color of law. I don't give a single sh*t what anyone says about it. I will die upon that hill. So the 1A issue is paramount to me, and Congress shall write no law... Religious right is sacrosanct. probably more than ANY other.

I will be on the cross next to yours with my eyes set on the heavens.  But I do not expect an Amendment I legal victory in a State that did not bother to protect the religious rights of its own citizens.

The citizens of Maine should look to their own Supreme Court and invoke Section 3 of their own Constitution.

Section 3.

[N]o person shall be hurt, molested or restrained in that person's liberty or estate .  .  . for that person's religious professions or sentiments, provided that that person does not disturb the public peace, nor obstruct others in their religious worship; -- and all persons demeaning themselves peaceably, as good members of the State, shall be equally under the protection of the laws
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline roamer_1

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I will be on the cross next to yours with my eyes set on the heavens.  But I do not expect an Amendment I legal victory in a State that did not bother to protect the religious rights of its own citizens.

The citizens of Maine should look to their own Supreme Court and invoke Section 3 of their own Constitution.

Section 3.

[N]o person shall be hurt, molested or restrained in that person's liberty or estate .  .  . for that person's religious professions or sentiments, provided that that person does not disturb the public peace, nor obstruct others in their religious worship; -- and all persons demeaning themselves peaceably, as good members of the State, shall be equally under the protection of the laws

Right. But the point-in-fact is before SCOTUS... Where there should be no doubt... I have not overlooked those supposedly hard-core 'conservative' Tumpy appointments ... Who once again have soiled their bed. Not that I am surprised... Rather in that my bias is resoundingly confirmed yet again.