Windows 11 (Poll included)

[Cyber Liberty]

OK, so the Microslop Update has come to my computer.  Should I "upgrade" now or wait for the Weed Option?

Not sure I want to pull that trigger so soon, so should I? Wait until the free upgrades expire?  Never?

[Kamaji]

Wait until at least the first wave of early adopters has gone through and resolved the various updating problems that will inevitably crop up.

[EdinVA]

I don't upgrade anymore.. I have always had glitches.
I wait until they threaten to shut my machine off or an application I want/need requires a newer windows then I just get a new machine with the new windows, usually about every 5 to 7 years.

[DB]

You need another choice... Don't upgrade to Windows 11 and wait until you need to buy a new computer and do it then when Windows 10 is no longer available.

Invariably one has to update and/or replace other applications when the OS has a major change with a whole set of new problems. In addition a number of those applications may not have newer versions for the newer OS. So at a minimum you have to wait for all the applications you use to be fully supported by the new OS before moving to it.

And wasn't windows 10 supposed to be the last version of Windows for ever on and it would automatically morph into whatever Microsoft decided to do with it without allowing the user a choice??? That it had become a "service" instead of an OS...

Perhaps that plan didn't go over so well with the corporate world that doesn't want things changing willy-nilly causing random major meltdowns in productivity...

[Kamaji]

Of course, unless one categorically needs MS Office, one can always switch to a nice flavor of linux, or, more generally, a *nix.  Like Linux Mint:  https://linuxmint.com/

[Elderberry]

I am going to wait for awhile as 11 currently has issues with the Ryzen CPU and that's what I have.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,451185.0.html

[roamer_1]

OK, so the Microslop Update has come to my computer.  Should I "upgrade" now or wait for the Weed Option?

Not sure I want to pull that trigger so soon, so should I? Wait until the free upgrades expire?  Never?

Depends. If your machine is already set up full UEFI and TPM enabled, your call.

But f not - and most machines are not UEFI, rather either UEFI-Hybrd or legacy BIOS, with TPM present but disabled - If that is the case, know it is a full nuke and pave to enact UEFI and TPM. If you enable it from bios, your current installation will brick, and you will have to reinstall using a UEFI capable boot stick to reinstall.

It may be a thing - just sayin.

[Kamaji]

Depends. If your machine is already set up full UEFI and TPM enabled, your call.

But f not - and most machines are not UEFI, rather either UEFI-Hybrd or legacy BIOS, with TPM present but disabled - If that is the case, know it is a full nuke and pave to enact UEFI and TPM. If you enable it from bios, your current installation will brick, and you will have to reinstall using a UEFI capable boot stick to reinstall.

It may be a thing - just sayin.

Those are good points to know!  Is there any way to check whether one's system is both UEFI and TPM compliant?  Other than blindly trying the update to see what happens?

[roamer_1]

Those are good points to know!  Is there any way to check whether one's system is both UEFI and TPM compliant?  Other than blindly trying the update to see what happens?

You will get a nag/warning board in updates saying your machine is out of compliance for Win11 and it will not install, with a happy link to a win app to tell you what is out of whack - which is always going to start with UEFI and TPM (2.0 I think). It does NOT tell you that enabling UEFI will brick your current installation. But neither does it tell you how to do it.

But I have already had two across my bench from power users that switched their BIOS over and killed their box.

To be fair - Saying it is bricked is maybe a bit much. A reinstall will fix it. But so far, for me, there has been no alternative to copying files off the drive by hand, full nuke and pave... Though I may not understand it all the way, and there may be a repair scenario... But I have not found it yet.

So no Win11 for me until there is a HDD fail or some other reason to nuke a box. I have somewhere around 10 machines at any given time, and that's nuts over an upgrade.

[roamer_1]

To clarify: Most machinery made in the last 10 years is UEFI and TPM2 capable. Most machines are set up differently because the strictures of UEFI and TPM are onerous, not allowing boot unless the operating system approves it - Not allowing hardware unless the operating system approves it... The OS becomes king over BIOS, and nothing but an UEFI capable OS will do.

There are also questions about unique ID being implemented through UEFI/TPM enabled OS... So most manufacturers have left the factory setup either legacy (CMOS) or UEFI-Hybrid of some kind.

[Bigun]

Those are good points to know!  Is there any way to check whether one's system is both UEFI and TPM compliant?  Other than blindly trying the update to see what happens?

Microsoft provides a tool to check out your machines to see if they are Win. 11 ready (I do not have a link handy but it's easy to find) and none of mine are for the reasons @roamer_1 has alluded to. You should also know that not all current processors make the grade.

Just my own personal opinion, but it appears to me that Win. 11 is more of a tool to sell new machines than a big OS upgrade.

[roamer_1]

Microsoft provides a tool to check out your machines to see if they are Win. 11 ready (I do not have a link handy but it's easy to find) and none of mine are for the reasons @roamer_1 has alluded to. You should also know that not all current processors make the grade.

Just my own personal opinion, but it appears to me that Win. 11 is more of a tool to sell new machines than a big OS upgrade.

Yes @Bigun , your machinery is very likely UEFI and TPM2 capable... It/they are a setting in BIOS... So yeah you probably can set the machine up to take Win11. What you need to understand to make an informed decision is what will happen in order to make your machine UEFI/TPM compliant, and that is:

You will need to save everything off the machine, Jst like you would for a HDD replacement or other major data-loss surgery. I would suggest simply buying a new HDD and leave your old one alone in case of some SNAFU.

When your data is guaranteed safe, change your BIOS to UEFI and (Likely) within UEFI, enable TPM2

After reboot you will be ready to install windows from a UEFI capable thumb, which must be prepared before the fact. I have not been successful installing Win 10 into UEFI using a standard bootable windows media. I DL the ISO, set up a UEFI bootable using Rufus (https://rufus.ie/en/) creating a UEFI/GPT/NTFS bootable and importing the Win10 ISO into it.

Then boot to the thumb and install normally.

IOW, It is a complicated thing to do and ma really be an onramp to horror highway. It is still largely experimental to me, still messin with it... And maybe I am overly cautious... But so far, it ain't been fun.

[Elderberry]

Microsoft releases an improved Windows 11 PC health check app

Engadget by N. Ingraham 8/27/2021

And it's allowing unrestricted Windows 11 ISO installs.

https://www.engadget.com/microsoft-windows-11-supported-processors-update-175544403.html

When Microsoft released the Windows 11 Insider preview earlier this summer, it did so with some confusion around minimum system requirements. It quickly reversed course, saying that more people could install the software update than its requirements originally stated so the company could gather more performance on how the OS performed. After a few months of users testing and providing feedback, Microsoft says that, for the most part, its system requirements from June will stand — but there are a few notable changes.

This means that you'll need a compatible 64-bit processor, 4GB of memory and 64GB of storage, as well as "UEFI secure boot, graphics requirements and TPM 2.0." For the most part, Microsoft is still requiring an 8th-generation or newer Intel processor, but the company is adding a few 7th-generation Intel options to the supported list, including Intel Core X-series, Xeon W-series and the Intel Core 7820HQ. For the latter, Microsoft will only support "select devices that shipped with modern drivers based on Declarative, Componentized, Hardware Support Apps (DCH) design principles, including Surface Studio 2."

There is some good news for people running older hardware, though. According to The Verge, Microsoft won't prohibit computers running processors on its "supported" list from installing Windows 11 — they just won't be able to do so through the official Windows update software. You'll instead have to download a Windows 11 ISO file and install it yourself. The Verge says this method will primarily be for businesses to try Windows 11 and it won't be publicizing this method to standard users.

[Cyber Liberty]

You need another choice... Don't upgrade to Windows 11 and wait until you need to buy a new computer and do it then when Windows 10 is no longer available.

Invariably one has to update and/or replace other applications when the OS has a major change with a whole set of new problems. In addition a number of those applications may not have newer versions for the newer OS. So at a minimum you have to wait for all the applications you use to be fully supported by the new OS before moving to it.

And wasn't windows 10 supposed to be the last version of Windows for ever on and it would automatically morph into whatever Microsoft decided to do with it without allowing the user a choice??? That it had become a "service" instead of an OS...

Perhaps that plan didn't go over so well with the corporate world that doesn't want things changing willy-nilly causing random major meltdowns in productivity...

I'm a veteran of the Vista start.  I know about things breaking after installation, because Vista broke almost every damned thing I had.

[Bigun]

Yes @Bigun , your machinery is very likely UEFI and TPM2 capable... It/they are a setting in BIOS... So yeah you probably can set the machine up to take Win11. What you need to understand to make an informed decision is what will happen in order to make your machine UEFI/TPM compliant, and that is:

You will need to save everything off the machine, Jst like you would for a HDD replacement or other major data-loss surgery. I would suggest simply buying a new HDD and leave your old one alone in case of some SNAFU.

When your data is guaranteed safe, change your BIOS to UEFI and (Likely) within UEFI, enable TPM2

After reboot you will be ready to install windows from a UEFI capable thumb, which must be prepared before the fact. I have not been successful installing Win 10 into UEFI using a standard bootable windows media. I DL the ISO, set up a UEFI bootable using Rufus (https://rufus.ie/en/) creating a UEFI/GPT/NTFS bootable and importing the Win10 ISO into it.

Then boot to the thumb and install normally.

IOW, It is a complicated thing to do and ma really be an onramp to horror highway. It is still largely experimental to me, still messin with it... And maybe I am overly cautious... But so far, it ain't been fun.

IF and when I find I have need for Win. 11 box, I'll probably just find a new (to me) one and drop the dime @roamer_1

[roamer_1]

Microsoft releases an improved Windows 11 PC health check app

There is some good news for people running older hardware, though. According to The Verge, Microsoft won't prohibit computers running processors on its "supported" list from installing Windows 11 — they just won't be able to do so through the official Windows update software. You'll instead have to download a Windows 11 ISO file and install it yourself. The Verge says this method will primarily be for businesses to try Windows 11 and it won't be publicizing this method to standard users.

Oh that could be fun... I wonder if you can get around all the requirements that way... That will be my weekend playtime.

[roamer_1]

IF and when I find I have need for Win. 11 box, I'll probably just find a new (to me) one and drop the dime @roamer_1

I will have a couple of my machines in Win11 for testing and orientation - I need to do that to stay on the troubleshooting edge.

And if a machine goes dark for some reason, like a hdd replacement, as an instance - I will likely bring it back win11, as it really is not so different in that scenario - I do a clean install anyway in such cases.

But real adoption of Win11 will be a years-long endeavor for me, @Bigun . Probably though attrition, much as you describe. We will see. After it ripens for a year, maybe I will have a different outlook.

[roamer_1]

But I am really, seriously considering just turning my house Linux. If it were not for my tech business, I would have gone Linux long ago. It may just be time to throw the switch. Leave my test benches windows... and my route laptop... But my media machines could have gone linux years ago, as could my servers and personal boxen.

I might be there.

[Bigun]

I'm a veteran of the Vista start.  I know about things breaking after installation, because Vista broke almost every damned thing I had.

That Fluster cluck should have made believers out of everybody.

[roamer_1]

I'm a veteran of the Vista start.  I know about things breaking after installation, because Vista broke almost every damned thing I had.

Win2k broke everything I had... Rewrote everything by the time XP came out, and then SP2 broke it all again. Rewritten just in time for Vista to break it all again. rewrote for Seven, and gave up. I will not be rewriting again.

[rustynail]

When MS won't work Linux will.

[roamer_1]

By the way y'all... I tolja about losing WENTWORTH, my main laptop.

That was a UEFI conversion... Fixing to set the thing up for Win11. Bricked the BIOS and it has not run since... No joy in  reset, no joy at all.

So while that is probably not common, bad things can happen.

[EdinVA]

By the way y'all... I tolja about losing WENTWORTH, my main laptop.

That was a UEFI conversion... Fixing to set the thing up for Win11. Bricked the BIOS and it has not run since... No joy in  reset, no joy at all.

So while that is probably not common, bad things can happen.

Well, I get lotsa joy tossing them out the window... 

[Hoodat]

Ask all those who invested in Windows 8.  Microsoft seems to get it wrong every other version.  So I will hold out for whatever comes after Windows 11.

Windows Vista →  Windows 7
Windows 8      →  Windows 10
Windows 11    →  ??????

[DB]

I'm a veteran of the Vista start.  I know about things breaking after installation, because Vista broke almost every damned thing I had.

Yep... It took years to get a number of Visual Basic programs to run again...