Author Topic: Arizona State Rep. Mark Finchem Calls for the 2020 Election Results to be Decertified Based on the P  (Read 5052 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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De-certifying probably would not change a single office and certainly will not change the POTUS outcome.  You’re right, AZ screwed up, full stop, and that’s the end of it.

But it would formally retract the consent of the state of AZ to have its EVs awarded as they were awarded.  It would further damage the credibility of the Biden admin and might encourage other state legislatures to reform.

I hope they do it.


Dunno. That will be spun as partisan or Tumpist sour grapes, I think - An action with no other apparent value... Actionable evidence prosecuted to the fullest, and rigorous protections and transparency in following elections would likewise damage Biden, and leave a dang mark too.

Offline HoustonSam

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Dunno. That will be spun as partisan or Tumpist sour grapes, I think - An action with no other apparent value... Actionable evidence prosecuted to the fullest, and rigorous protections and transparency in following elections would likewise damage Biden, and leave a dang mark too.

De-cert would definitely be spun by the Ds and their media publicists.  But everything is spun so spinning is not a reason to reject a proposed action.

Oh and I want prosecutions and jail time as well, just doubtful either will happen.
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Offline roamer_1

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De-cert would definitely be spun by the Ds and their media publicists.  But everything is spun so spinning is not a reason to reject a proposed action.


I cannot deny that.

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Oh and I want prosecutions and jail time as well, just doubtful either will happen.


Well, this is as close as we have ever been since this all started. No krakens or hail marys in the press... Just a state AG and an axe to grind... and he has the power of enforcement behind him.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I cannot deny that.

Well, this is as close as we have ever been since this all started. No krakens or hail marys in the press... Just a state AG and an axe to grind... and he has the power of enforcement behind him.

I'd feel better about the AG if he wasn't a lying crapweasel who's terrified to face his constituents face to face.  He's slow-walked every damned thing concerning this stolen election.  He will fumble this ball, sure as God made little green apples.
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Offline roamer_1

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I'd feel better about the AG if he wasn't a lying crapweasel who's terrified to face his constituents face to face.  He's slow-walked every damned thing concerning this stolen election.  He will fumble this ball, sure as God made little green apples.

Then that will be that... and... Bupkis.  :shrug:

Offline Hoodat

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He will fumble this ball, sure as God made little green apples.


If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline HikerGuy83

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De-certifying probably would not change a single office and certainly will not change the POTUS outcome.  You’re right, AZ screwed up, full stop, and that’s the end of it.

But it would formally retract the consent of the state of AZ to have its EVs awarded as they were awarded.  It would further damage the credibility of the Biden admin and might encourage other state legislatures to reform.

I hope they do it.

And do you believe that such an effort would not be contentious and drive away those who might otherwise join in defeating a far left agenda ?

Offline HikerGuy83

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Dunno. That will be spun as partisan or Tumpist sour grapes, I think - An action with no other apparent value... Actionable evidence prosecuted to the fullest, and rigorous protections and transparency in following elections would likewise damage Biden, and leave a dang mark too.

There seem to be some who think we are with unlimited political capital.

We don't have either chamber in congress or the W.H.

And they can't figure out why.

Oh...that's right....we only lose because the other side cheats.

Did Sinema cheat her way into the senate ?

Did Kelly cheat his way into the senate ?

Offline HoustonSam

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And do you believe that such an effort would not be contentious and drive away those who might otherwise join in defeating a far left agenda ?

It would certainly be contentious.  When the media is against us we have to accept that anything we do will be contentious.  So what?  Are the Ds afraid of being contentious?

There is a long, long list of things I dislike about Trump, but the reason he won the nomination in 2016 and the reason he commands the loyalty of millions is because he simply doesn't give a damn whether or not he's contentious.  That's a lesson the rest of the Rs need to learn - the majority of the R base demands an unapologetic, unrelenting pursuit of stated R policies and they don't care that it's contentious. Trump convinced the R base that he would maintain that unapologetic pursuit.  He went wrong IMO by treating everyone as his political enemy rather than treating just the Ds as his political enemy, and by making issues about himself too often rather than consistently about the country.  But his basic approach is what rank-and-file R voters want, and they are willing to accept his character flaws to get that basic approach.

The Rs aren't going to apologize their way into office. Trump said some incredibly stupid, narcissistic things, but fundamentally the fear of offending people is not a winning political strategy.  The far left agenda includes corruption of elections.  We can't defeat that agenda by refusing to confront that agenda.

James 1:20

Offline roamer_1

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There seem to be some who think we are with unlimited political capital.

We don't have either chamber in congress or the W.H.

And they can't figure out why.

Oh...that's right....we only lose because the other side cheats.

Did Sinema cheat her way into the senate ?

Did Kelly cheat his way into the senate ?

Hard telling if you can't trust the election process. That's the entire point here.

Offline HikerGuy83

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Hard telling if you can't trust the election process. That's the entire point here.

I hope that you get that I completely agree with you.

I am getting ready to start a thread on tracking efforts to do that in Arizona.

What I don't go for is pushing bleating words like steal, corrupt, illegal, and decertification.  They sounds more like battle cries and I, for one, am sick and tired of the ugly (and frankly stupid) state of politics.  Even the dialogue on this board smacks of some kind of "cancel" if you don't agree with their particular POV (and that does not even mean you had a different one.....you might not have one at all....but  that is still wrong.....Hitler would be proud).

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Where's the provision in the Constitution to decertify an election? Sheesh, I thought liberals were dumb...

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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If Arizona were to decertify its slate of electors, what happens after that?

I presume decertification is one step of many to work towards an unspecified outcome.

What is the desired final outcome?  What is the end game?
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Offline HoustonSam

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Where's the provision in the Constitution to decertify an election? Sheesh, I thought liberals were dumb...

I'm sure you know just as well as the rest of us that the Tenth Amendment reserves to the States, and the people, all powers not specifically delegated to the Federal Government.  If the legislature of AZ decides that it no longer has confidence in the result it previously certified and sent to the joint session, as the sole determiner of election procedure in AZ it has all authority to say so by de-certifying.

Even if every state that certified D EVs chose to de-certify, Biden would remain at the Resolute desk; one can reasonably argue that de-certifying would be merely symbolic, with no real impact.  AZ, PA, GA, and other states simply screwed up by certifying results that came from procedures that are not trustworthy.  Although moot in terms of immediate impact, de-certifying would say clearly that existing electoral procedures are unacceptable.  If the AZ legislature chose to de-certify, they would really have no choice but to reform their election laws.

I take no position on whether or not a proposed de-cert would stand a chance in the AZ legislature.  In a sense de-cert would be an admission of failure by the state legislature, an admission it had allowed untrustworthy procedures to remain in effect.  For that reason alone the proposal might be a non-starter.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 03:18:43 pm by HoustonSam »
James 1:20

Offline skeeter

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There seem to be some who think we are with unlimited political capital.

We don't have either chamber in congress or the W.H.

And they can't figure out why.

Oh...that's right....we only lose because the other side cheats.

Did Sinema cheat her way into the senate ?

Did Kelly cheat his way into the senate ?
You seem to believe it matters to most of us who cheats. You'd be wrong.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I am getting ready to start a thread on tracking efforts to do that in Arizona.

Good luck with that.  A word of advice:  Don't rubbish what people are doing, like you have done so far with the Audit, every step of the way.  If folks are willing to put up with that they'd all have subscriptions to the Arizona Republic, too.
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Offline Kamaji

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Where's the provision in the Constitution to decertify an election? Sheesh, I thought liberals were dumb...

Right next to the provision that says wiretapping without a warrant is impermissible.

Offline Hoodat

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Where's the provision in the Constitution to decertify an election? Sheesh, I thought liberals were dumb...

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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-Ayn Rand-

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Towards what end is decrtifying the Arizona electors a stepping stone?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Towards what end is decrtifying the Arizona electors a stepping stone?

It gets the attention of AZ voters, who will in turn put pressure on the GOP to actually do something about it.  The majorities we have are razor thin, so a couple of RINOs can thwart every move we make to repair our elections.  There has been a lot of pooh-poohing of our efforts from people who claim to be "Republicans."  They're still so uninformed that they think this is about Donald Trump.

Only Rats and RINO defeatists are happy with the 2020 election. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline skeeter

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It gets the attention of AZ voters, who will in turn put pressure on the GOP to actually do something about it.  The majorities we have are razor thin, so a couple of RINOs can thwart every move we make to repair our elections.  There has been a lot of pooh-poohing of our efforts from people who claim to be "Republicans."  They're still so uninformed that they think this is about Donald Trump.

Only Rats and RINO defeatists are happy with the 2020 election.
:yowsa:

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I'm sure you know just as well as the rest of us that the Tenth Amendment reserves to the States, and the people, all powers not specifically delegated to the Federal Government.  If the legislature of AZ decides that it no longer has confidence in the result it previously certified and sent to the joint session, as the sole determiner of election procedure in AZ it has all authority to say so by de-certifying.

Even if every state that certified D EVs chose to de-certify, Biden would remain at the Resolute desk; one can reasonably argue that de-certifying would be merely symbolic, with no real impact.  AZ, PA, GA, and other states simply screwed up by certifying results that came from procedures that are not trustworthy.  Although moot in terms of immediate impact, de-certifying would say clearly that existing electoral procedures are unacceptable.  If the AZ legislature chose to de-certify, they would really have no choice but to reform their election laws.

I take no position on whether or not a proposed de-cert would stand a chance in the AZ legislature.  In a sense de-cert would be an admission of failure by the state legislature, an admission it had allowed untrustworthy procedures to remain in effect.  For that reason alone the proposal might be a non-starter.

It'd basically be masturbation then? Nice to know.

If it's true, i'd want prosecutions. State level office can prosecute.

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Could the Federal Government decertify the Arizona Territory's admission to the Union as a state?

Decertify the Gadsen Purchase of 1853/1854?

It would be nice to all the energy expended on nonsense actually use to SOLVE problems.  Arizona has an evolving water availability problem because of  drought and low water level in the Colorado River resevoirs.  Solutions are needed when useless elected officials are done with their self-serving nonsense.
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Offline HoustonSam

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It'd basically be masturbation then? Nice to know.
Congratulations, this response will do a lot for your credibility here.
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If it's true, i'd want prosecutions. State level office can prosecute.
I've gone on record on this thread also wanting prosecutions.  Were I a defense attorney and the state legislature failed to de-certify I would certainly argue that my client had simply participated in the process which the state legislature certified; and that the state legislature had confirmed the fitness of the process, and my client's participation, by leaving that certification in force.

So if you're serious about wanting prosecutions, you might want to think through to what would make for an effective prosecution.  A de-certified election would make for a much more powerful prosecutorial case than a certified election.
James 1:20