Arizona State Rep. Mark Finchem Calls for the 2020 Election Results to be Decertified Based on the P

[HikerGuy83]

Here is where i probably agree with the "Stop the Steal" crowd. I'm in favor of all new legislation to increase transparency, voter ID, etc. etc.

Decertifying the election would result in civil war.

That does NOT mean we should not be dong all possible to increase election integrity.

[Hoodat]

Decertifying the election would result in civil war.

That does NOT mean we should not be dong all possible to increase election integrity.

Decertifying the election in Arizona is the first step to increasing election integrity.  The election was fraudulent.  It should not stand.

[skeeter]

Decertifying the election would result in civil war.

That does NOT mean we should not be dong all possible to increase election integrity.

With attitudes like this we are doomed.

[Kamaji]

Decertifying the election would result in civil war.

That does NOT mean we should not be dong all possible to increase election integrity.

Nonsense.  Decertifying would, at most, result in a Supreme Court case in which the Supreme Court would almost certainly say that it was far too late and that the decertification did not have to be given effect for federal purposes.

[HikerGuy83]

Nonsense.  Decertifying would, at most, result in a Supreme Court case in which the Supreme Court would almost certainly say that it was far too late and that the decertification did not have to be given effect for federal purposes.

I'll give you that it is low probability.

It's probably a moot point. 

We'll soon be into the 2022 election cycle and this thing will start to die.

[Bigun]

Nonsense.  Decertifying would, at most, result in a Supreme Court case in which the Supreme Court would almost certainly say that it was far too late and that the decertification did not have to be given effect for federal purposes.

What's the point of having a constitution if it isn't enforced? Let me remind everyone here that Texas vs Pennsylvania made no allegation of fraud. It raised constitutional issues only and SCOTUS, the court of original jurisdiction, refused to hear it.

[HikerGuy83]

What's the point of having a constitution if it isn't enforced? Let me remind everyone here that Texas vs Pennsylvania made no allegation of fraud. It raised constitutional issues only and SCOTUS, the court of original jurisdiction, refused to hear it.

Did you somehow just figure out that people are ignoring the constitution ?

It's only been going on since the mid 60's and the GOP is just as guilty. 

While I was not pleased with this, I am still behind this court.

Gorsuch
Kavennaugh
Barrett

All justify my vote for Donald Trump.

This country would be done if Hillary had been allowed to fill those seats.

[Bigun]

Did you somehow just figure out that people are ignoring the constitution ?

It's only been going on since the mid 60's and the GOP is just as guilty. 

While I was not pleased with this, I am still behind this court.

Gorsuch
Kavennaugh
Barrett

All justify my vote for Donald Trump.

This country would be done if Hillary had been allowed to fill those seats.

Ha! Ha! You are a really phunny guy!


But you are right it having been going on since the 60s if its the 1860s you're talking about!

[HikerGuy83]

Ha! Ha! You are a really phunny guy!


But you are right it having been going on since the 60s if its the 1860s you're talking about!

For sure since Roosevelt put his morons on the bench. 

Earl Warren will long be considered an enemy of the U.S. by me and others.

[Free Vulcan]

Decertifying the election in Arizona is the first step to increasing election integrity.  The election was fraudulent.  It should not stand.

I agree. The news media couldn't ignore it as it is central to their ongoing narrative.

Which means the facts can be put forth in the public debate that will result, and that will ripple heavily, maybe giving these state legislatures the push to increase voter integrity.

[Bigun]

For sure since Roosevelt put his morons on the bench. 

Earl Warren will long be considered an enemy of the U.S. by me and others.

Abe Lincon walked all over the constitution, and we built a huge memorial to him in D. C.

[HikerGuy83]

Abe Lincon walked all over the constitution, and we built a huge memorial to him in D. C.

We can certainly discuss how time has not been a friend to the basis for a truly great form of government.

Lincoln had many people helping him along the way.

On a different topic:

Ever read just how the states were strongarmed into passing the disgusting 14th amendment.

[HikerGuy83]

Back on topic.

Decertification might be the result of a good campaign.

Coming out and yapping about it up front only prepares the opposition for whatever this guy plans.

Seems pretty stupid to start out like this.

He clearly does not care about those who are not as strident as he is.

[Bigun]

We can certainly discuss how time has not been a friend to the basis for a truly great form of government.

Lincoln had many people helping him along the way.

Oh yeah! Many of them being the leaders of failed socialist revolutions that occurred in Europe around 1848 and fled to the USA to escape the hangman in their home countries.

On a different topic:

Ever read just how the states were strongarmed into passing the disgusting 14th amendment.

I've read many things you will never find in a public-school textbook. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Back on topic.

Decertification might be the result of a good campaign.

Coming out and yapping about it up front only prepares the opposition for whatever this guy plans.

Seems pretty stupid to start out like this.

He clearly does not care about those who are not as strident as he is.

OK, back on topic, and the "he" and "him" to which you refer is Mark Finchem.  I trust him a lot more than other people I know who claim to live in Arizona.

[HikerGuy83]

OK, back on topic, and the "he" and "him" to which you refer is Mark Finchem.  I trust him a lot more than other people I know who claim to live in Arizona.

Trust him in what regard.

I am not challenging his integrity.

I am saying it's pretty stupid to go right to decertification as an opening salvo.

It's like when Bush came out with privatizing Social Security.

Regardless of how you did or didn't like the idea...the messaging sucked and was poorly put together.

At first blush, this seems to be the same.

Don't argue the fact of the case....that is not my complaint.

My complaint is poor optics.

[Cyber Liberty]

Trust him in what regard.

I am not challenging his integrity.

I am saying it's pretty stupid to go right to decertification as an opening salvo.

It's like when Bush came out with privatizing Social Security.

Regardless of how you did or didn't like the idea...the messaging sucked and was poorly put together.

At first blush, this seems to be the same.

Don't argue the fact of the case....that is not my complaint.

My complaint is poor optics.

Anything that doesn't cave 100% to Democrats is bad optics. Get over that.

[HoustonSam]

I'll give you that it is low probability.

It's probably a moot point. 

We'll soon be into the 2022 election cycle and this thing will start to die.

I'm having trouble following your train of thought here @HikerGuy83. First you tell us we can't know how the Ds will respond to election integrity reforms, then you tell us that we can know and you are not surprised at their responses because of some extremism in the existing reform efforts, then you tell us that de-certification would result in Civil War, then you tell us no, that would be a low probability.

We know precisely how the Ds will respond to election integrity reforms because they are already doing so.  They called the GA State Legislature's reform bill "Jim Crow on steroids" and they broke quorum here in TX and left the state to try and prevent the State Legislature's reform bill.

Can you point to the specific provisions in those bills, or the specific legislative actions in drafting and passing those bills, that are consistent with - how did you say it again - something about "extremists leading the conversation?"  Do you know of some other moderate, non-extreme way to insure election integrity rather than having state legislatures pass reform bills?  I'd be interested in hearing the details of any better plan you have in mind, and I would certainly be interested in your plan to get the Ds on board to help out.

[HikerGuy83]

I'm having trouble following your train of thought here @HikerGuy83. First you tell us we can't know how the Ds will respond to election integrity reforms, then you tell us that we can know and you are not surprised at their responses because of some extremism in the existing reform efforts, then you tell us that de-certification would result in Civil War, then you tell us no, that would be a low probability.

We know precisely how the Ds will respond to election integrity reforms because they are already doing so.  They called the GA State Legislature's reform bill "Jim Crow on steroids" and they broke quorum here in TX and left the state to try and prevent the State Legislature's reform bill.

Can you point to the specific provisions in those bills, or the specific legislative actions in drafting and passing those bills, that are consistent with - how did you say it again - something about "extremists leading the conversation?"  Do you know of some other moderate, non-extreme way to insure election integrity rather than having state legislatures pass reform bills?  I'd be interested in hearing the details of any better plan you have in mind, and I would certainly be interested in your plan to get the Ds on board to help out.

Anything that doesn't cave 100% to Democrats is bad optics. Get over that.

I respectfully disagree.

In all my time in this process, I have found that people ignore the middle.

All the left needed to do was peel off a few republicans or indies in order to beat Trump and they were able to do that.

All we need is to peel off a few left of center democrats and we will win.

How you get them is the challenge.

[Bigun]

@HikerGuy83

I'm asking you respectfully and sincerely to give me your best explanation for what happened on election night last year all documented on this thread starting about 11PM

I'm 73 years old and never seen anything remotely like it before.

[HoustonSam]

I respectfully disagree.

In all my time in this process, I have found that people ignore the middle.

All the left needed to do was peel off a few republicans or indies in order to beat Trump and they were able to do that.

All we need is to peel off a few left of center democrats and we will win.

How you get them is the challenge.

Come on @HikerGuy83 , this sounds like Steve Martin's old routine "You can be a millionaire and never pay taxes."  "First, get a million dollars."

What exactly in the GA and TX reform bills was repellent to moderates and (I think imaginary) "peelable" Ds?  You said extremists are leading the conversation - please tell me precisely how extremists led these two specific actions, and what other actions would have been preferable.

[roamer_1]

Here is where i probably agree with the "Stop the Steal" crowd. I'm in favor of all new legislation to increase transparency, voter ID, etc. etc.

That's right.

[roamer_1]

Decertifying the election in Arizona is the first step to increasing election integrity.  The election was fraudulent.  It should not stand.

That's right. Butt there is no remedy at the federal level. I don't think there are mulligans offered. The AZ electors were bound, the results were certed. That's all folks! All you get now is to do better next time... And that should be the focus.

The only other function of decertification may be a recall of senators/congressmen according to a thrown-out election and re-do, not to mention all state offices that may have been effected - But I don't know if that is true according to AZ state law. 

[HikerGuy83]

That's right.

Agreed.

[HoustonSam]

That's right. Butt there is no remedy at the federal level. I don't think there are mulligans offered. The AZ electors were bound, the results were certed. That's all folks! All you get now is to do better next time... And that should be the focus.

The only other function of decertification may be a recall of senators/congressmen according to a thrown-out election and re-do, not to mention all state offices that may have been effected - But I don't know if that is true according to AZ state law. 

De-certifying probably would not change a single office and certainly will not change the POTUS outcome.  You’re right, AZ screwed up, full stop, and that’s the end of it.

But it would formally retract the consent of the state of AZ to have its EVs awarded as they were awarded.  It would further damage the credibility of the Biden admin and might encourage other state legislatures to reform.

I hope they do it.