Woodward book: Worried Trump could 'go rogue,' Milley took top-secret action to protect nuclear weap

[Kamaji]

Didn't this guy disobey Trump during the BLM riots? You would think Trump would pick up on resistance from this guy.

Tolerating pushback from subordinates is tantamount to condoning their treason/insurrection against you?

Really?  TDS much?

[txradioguy]

Tolerating pushback from subordinates is tantamount to condoning their treason/insurrection against you?

Really?  TDS much?

@Weird Tolkienish Figure is hardly the TDS type.

Milley had already pushed back enough against his CINC during the BLM summer...Esper as well...for him to have fired both of them.

He's got a valid point and asks a legit question.

[txradioguy]

    An update: the level of anger at Gen. Milley on Capitol Hill is immeasurable. There is a strong belief he leaked this story himself. Veterans on Capitol Hill are discussing next actions. The agreed opinion is he must go, but that media sycophants will attempt to protect him.

    — Ben Domenech (@bdomenech) September 14, 2021

[Kamaji]

@Weird Tolkienish Figure is hardly the TDS type.

Milley had already pushed back enough against his CINC during the BLM summer...Esper as well...for him to have fired both of them.

He's got a valid point and asks a legit question.

Fair enough, except that getting pushback from a subordinate - unless it obviously implies treachery - should not be grounds for firing that subordinate.  That leads to the boss being surrounded by lackeys and yes-men, and they can be even more treacherous than a subordinate who thinks for himself and pushes back on the boss'es ideas.  What Milley did on Jan. 6 was to end-run the chain of command for his own political agenda, not simply push back on his superior from within the chain of command.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Fair enough, except that getting pushback from a subordinate - unless it obviously implies treachery - should not be grounds for firing that subordinate.  That leads to the boss being surrounded by lackeys and yes-men, and they can be even more treacherous than a subordinate who thinks for himself and pushes back on the boss'es ideas.  What Milley did on Jan. 6 was to end-run the chain of command for his own political agenda, not simply push back on his superior from within the chain of command.

Ok, but you're speaking for Trump here. Trump needs to address this question. He's actually famous for firing people, so I doubt he was squeamish about it.

[240B]

Well, this bit of actual treason/insurrection wasn't known until Trump's term ended and he was out of office.  Not really kosher to fire a guy after you're no longer the boss, is it?

The whole entire point of being a "spy", is to make sure nobody knows what you are doing. The only people Milley confided to were Pelosi, Schumer, China, and his staff at the pentagon. No doubt Pelosi and Schumer are doing the same thing, i.e., calling foreign leaders behind the President's back. China was popping champagne. And his staff were bullied and afraid for their jobs. Trump and his staff had no idea that any of this was happening, which is the entire goal of being a traitor and 'spying'.

[Kamaji]

Ok, but you're speaking for Trump here. Trump needs to address this question. He's actually famous for firing people, so I doubt he was squeamish about it.

He's also famous for tolerating a lot more in-fighting and resistance within his staff than are most CEOs and Presidents.  And Milley is not simply some 20-something trustafarian playing at being martyr in Antifa; he knows how to manipulate people and how to play the game - he would not have reached the position he has without being a consummate professional in that game - and so on balance Trump must have seen sufficient to keep him on.

If he had not, then he would likely have gotten the Scaramuchi treatment instead.

[txradioguy]

Fair enough, except that getting pushback from a subordinate - unless it obviously implies treachery - should not be grounds for firing that subordinate.  That leads to the boss being surrounded by lackeys and yes-men, and they can be even more treacherous than a subordinate who thinks for himself and pushes back on the boss'es ideas.  What Milley did on Jan. 6 was to end-run the chain of command for his own political agenda, not simply push back on his superior from within the chain of command.

It's insubordination depending on how bad the push back and disrespect towards your boss is.  And it sounds like Esper and Milley conspired to prevent Trump from implementing the insurrection act.  That's ground for firing.

Any good leader should welcome an alternate course of action...to have it debated...modified or accepted or rejected depending on the circumstances.  But there's a differences between push back with a suggestion for a different way to handle the situation that everyone agrees on and purposely subverting the chain of command and doing things behind the bosses back.

Esper did that to Trump once that we know of and we know now that Milley has done it at least three times.

It simply should have never come to that.

[Kamaji]

It's insubordination depending on how bad the push back and disrespect towards your boss is.  And it sounds like Esper and Milley conspired to prevent Trump from implementing the insurrection act.  That's ground for firing.

Any good leader should welcome an alternate course of action...to have it debated...modified or accepted or rejected depending on the circumstances.  But there's a differences between push back with a suggestion for a different way to handle the situation that everyone agrees on and purposely subverting the chain of command and doing things behind the bosses back.

Esper did that to Trump once that we know of and we know now that Milley has done it at least three times.

It simply should have never come to that.

Maybe so, nonetheless, convincing the boss to not implement the insurrection act is not the functional equivalent of end-running the boss himself and colluding with the Chinese.

Is Milley now blameless, because, well, he just couldn't help himself, and Trump should have been smart enough to have known that and to have fired him long ago?

[240B]

Most of these backstabbers only came out of the bushes after the election. Since Trump only had a few more days left in office, and was occupied with dealing with the obvious massive fraud employed by the Democrats and other players both foreign and domestic, for Trump to 'fire' anybody at that point would have been seen as petty and vindictive. Regardless of how overwhelmingly justified it may have been, it would have been reported as Trump 'lashing out' because of the election. By the time things came to light, it was too late for Trump to do anything about it. Again, which was the whole point. That was the plan all along.

[txradioguy]

Is Milley now blameless, because, well, he just couldn't help himself, and Trump should have been smart enough to have known that and to have fired him long ago?

I don't hear anyone here saying or hinting at that.

[Bigun]

Funny what a month of news can do for one's opinion.

After January 6th, I considered the break in at the Capitol as a criminal act.  Now?   Not as much.

How can entering what belongs to you be a criminal act?  Those buildings in D.C. belong to all of us! Our tax money bought and paid for every damned one of them!

[Bigun]

I was unaware that enemy combatant generals were even allowed to communicate. Naive me, I thought that "proper channels" always rrequired  the State Department  in these matters.

Hey Cruz, Paul, Rubio....   I hope you sharpening your knives for this mf'er.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news @catfish1957 but the fact is that those you name can do very little beyond making noise, criminal referals, and refusing to confirm any presidential appointments.  Any REAL penalties will be imposed by our military courts under the UCMJ and or the Department of "Justice" in regular courts of law.

[catfish1957]

How can entering what belongs to you be a criminal act?  Those buildings in D.C. belong to all of us! Our tax money bought and paid for every damned one of them!

By the book? 

At a minimum

Forced entry in HR offices for one. 
Vandalization, breaking of windows,  glass doors among other things
Theft of Federal property

At the time, I thought this was serious mistake for our side. This demonstration should have stopped at the Captiol Steps.   But if you captured the crux of my post.....   I am a lot more sympathetic to the particpants that day, with what has transpired in the past month.

It's the Biden government which is the one that has gone rogue.

[mystery-ak]

General Mark Milley Seems to Have Been the Source for Bob Woodward's Story About Mark Milley Undermining the Constitution

https://redstate.com/streiff/2021/09/15/general-mark-milley-seems-to-have-been-the-source-for-bob-woodwards-story-about-mark-milley-undermining-the-constitution-n443229

[catfish1957]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news @catfish1957 but the fact is that those you name can do very little beyond making noise, criminal referals, and refusing to confirm any presidential appointments.  Any REAL penalties will be imposed by our military courts under the UCMJ and or the Department of "Justice" in regular courts of law.

I understand that.  That's the nuts and bolts have putting him away.  He needs more than that.  He needs a full blown public humiliation that will be the last lasting legacy of this treasonous bastard.  Having him facing a televised tribuanl type of crucification is needed to provide a reminder to any other outlier, that this is unacceptable.

[Bigun]

By the book? 

At a minimum

Forced entry in HR offices for one. 
Vandalization, breaking of windows,  glass doors among other things
Theft of Federal property

At the time, I thought this was serious mistake for our side. This demonstration should have stopped at the Captiol Steps.   But if you captured the crux of my post.....   I am a lot more sympathetic to the particpants that day, with what has transpired in the past month.

It's the Biden government which is the one that has gone rogue.

I hear you and understand what you are saying but I'm very afraid that taking our country back at this point is going to necessarily involve a hell of a lot more than entering buildings that already belong to us!

[catfish1957]

I hear you and understand what you are saying but I'm very afraid that taking our country back at this point is going to necessarily involve a hell of a lot more than entering buildings that already belong to us!

No argument there.  But I wonder if our side has enough fire in the belly for the fight.  There is no going back afterwards.

[Kamaji]

I don't hear anyone here saying or hinting at that.

That's good to know.

[Bigun]

https://twitter.com/IngrahamAngle/status/1438134313950892034

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Maybe so, nonetheless, convincing the boss to not implement the insurrection act is not the functional equivalent of end-running the boss himself and colluding with the Chinese.

Is Milley now blameless, because, well, he just couldn't help himself, and Trump should have been smart enough to have known that and to have fired him long ago?

If I had my druthers, I'd frog march him to the brig right now. But that's not how our system works.

I honestly hate the guy. But that's just me.

Time to have done something about Milley was during Trump's tenure. It's too late now, unless we can convince Biden to go after him, which is doubtful.

[Kamaji]

If I had my druthers, I'd frog march him to the brig right now. But that's not how our system works.

I honestly hate the guy. But that's just me.

Time to have done something about Milley was during Trump's tenure. It's too late now, unless we can convince Biden to go after him, which is doubtful.

So we should just all STFU and like it?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Milley had already pushed back enough against his CINC during the BLM summer...Esper as well...for him to have fired both of them.

We need to be careful not to rewrite history.

Everyone, including the DOJ, pushed back against using the Insurrection Act in the summer ol 2019.  There is wide precedent that sending in the Army is triggered by a governor's request --- and, of course, there was none.  Trump was limited to using this to protect federal land and buildings, which he did.

Had Trump fired Milley and/or Esper (and AG), each would have been subpoenaed as a witness for the prosecution in Impeachment I.

Trump was always boxing with one hand tied behind his back ---- which makes his accomplishments all the more remarkable.

[Bigun]

So we should just all STFU and like it?

No! That is the absolute last thing you should do! We should be raisin unshirted hell all over the place including with our employees in government.

[txradioguy]

If I had my druthers, I'd frog march him to the brig right now. But that's not how our system works.

I honestly hate the guy. But that's just me.

Time to have done something about Milley was during Trump's tenure. It's too late now, unless we can convince Biden to go after him, which is doubtful.

Biden won't do anything because Milley is exactly the type of Flag Officer the Marxist Liberals want.