Author Topic: Afghanistan Is Your Fault  (Read 772 times)

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Online Wingnut

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Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« on: August 16, 2021, 05:09:54 pm »
The rag Atlantic says it is not Biden's fault.  It is our fault.   22222frying pan  Glad to know who is to blame.


The American public now has what it wanted.

By Tom Nichols

Kabul has fallen. Americans will now exercise their usual partisan outrage for a few weeks, and then Afghanistan, like everything else in a nation with an attention span not much longer than a fast-food commercial, will be forgotten. In the meantime, American citizens will separate into their usual camps and identify all of the obvious causes and culprits except for one: themselves.

Many Americans will bristle at the idea that this defeat overseas can be laid at their feet. When U.S. forces had to endure the misery of the retreat from North Korea back to the 38th parallel, no one made the argument that it had happened because of the voters. No one turned to the American people during the fall of Saigon and said, “This is on you.”

So why would I do that now?

Much of what happened in Korea and Vietnam—ultimately constituting a tie and a loss, if we are to be accurate—was beyond the control of the American public. Boys were drafted and sent into battle, sometimes in missions never intended to be revealed to the public.

Afghanistan was different. This was a war that was immensely popular at the outset and mostly conducted in full view of the American public. The problem was that, once the initial euphoria wore off, the public wasn’t much interested in it. Coverage in print media remained solid, but cable-news coverage of Afghanistan dropped off quickly, especially once a new adventure was launched in Iraq.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/afghanistan-your-fault/619769/


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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2021, 05:11:47 pm »
This is on everybody who supported Biden "because Trump did mean Tweets".

Online Bigun

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2021, 05:18:21 pm »
The Atlantic is right but for all the wrong reasons.  ALL of these "limited" wars we have fought beginning with Korea have been the result of the Commies at Foggy Bottom being allowed to call the shots and THAT needs to end right F'n now!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2021, 05:25:11 pm »
B Cup Nichols is putting on a perfect display of Liberal double think.

Tom Nichols: "We're the experts we know what we're talking about.  You ignorant rubes are can't begin to understand what me and my smart friends are talking about"

Also Tom Nichols: "It's not the experts fault...ALL of you are to blame for what's happening in Afghanistan."
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline GtHawk

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2021, 07:03:08 pm »
We may have collectively wanted out of Afghanistan but it was Captain Dementia and his Dementianeers who came up with the botched plan that put us where we are today. Would we be in a similar situation if Trumps plan had been followed? We'll never know because Biden and the democrats refuse to follow anything Trump had set up...because Orange Man bad, so they cock everything up and still blame Trump for their failings and why not when they have their tools in the media backing up their lies.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2021, 09:05:31 pm »
Didn't the Taliban win because they were fighting climate change?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Absalom

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2021, 09:08:57 pm »
Ignorant sanctimonious blather from another lefty.
Alexander internalized the primary dictum of war; KNOW YOUR ENEMY AND TREAT HIM ACCORDINGLY!
When the Bactrians (now Afghans) harassed his military following Gaugamela, he chased them into the
mountains till thy dissipated.
Instead we insisted on making them model citizens of the world. How pious of us.


Online Fishrrman

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2021, 10:04:03 pm »
"Afghanistan was different. This was a war that was immensely popular at the outset and mostly conducted in full view of the American public. The problem was that, once the initial euphoria wore off, the public wasn’t much interested in it."

Folks can be interested in a war that lasts two years, three years, even four.
Assuming that it was a war that at least "looked like" it might be won (in some measurable way).

But twenty years?
With no chance of achieving an outcome that could be reasonably called "a win"?
Nope.

I came to realize the struggles in both Afghanistan and Iraq were doomed back around 2003-2004 (don't recall the exact date). It was right after the newly-elected Iraqi parliament (or whatever the heck it was called) ratified a new constitution for that country. And written directly into that "constitution" was the provision that islam would be the national religion.

From that moment, I knew our efforts in both countries were pointless, and would end in loss.

And that's when I started asking the question, which I still pose from time to time:
WHO'S WINNING...?

Guess we found out in the past few days, didn't we...?

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2021, 10:07:52 pm »
This is on everybody who supported Biden "because Trump did mean Tweets".

It is also on every Republican who aided and abetted the Democrats stealing elections in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, and Nevada.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline skeeter

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2021, 10:14:49 pm »
The Atlantic certainly had no issue with “partisan outrage” when it suited their own politics. In fact they happily helped gin it up.

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2021, 10:16:07 pm »
The Atlantic certainly had no issue with “partisan outrage” when it suited their own politics. In fact they happily helped gin it up.

Amen!
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Offline GtHawk

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2021, 03:48:20 am »
"Afghanistan was different. This was a war that was immensely popular at the outset and mostly conducted in full view of the American public. The problem was that, once the initial euphoria wore off, the public wasn’t much interested in it."

Folks can be interested in a war that lasts two years, three years, even four.
Assuming that it was a war that at least "looked like" it might be won (in some measurable way).

But twenty years?
With no chance of achieving an outcome that could be reasonably called "a win"?
Nope.

I came to realize the struggles in both Afghanistan and Iraq were doomed back around 2003-2004 (don't recall the exact date). It was right after the newly-elected Iraqi parliament (or whatever the heck it was called) ratified a new constitution for that country. And written directly into that "constitution" was the provision that islam would be the national religion.

From that moment, I knew our efforts in both countries were pointless, and would end in loss.

And that's when I started asking the question, which I still pose from time to time:
WHO'S WINNING...?

Guess we found out in the past few days, didn't we...?
Under Obama/Biden/Biden it was never about winning a war or even nation building, it was about forcing normality of homosexuality, LGTBwhatever other alphabeters on the populace and forcing a percentage of the government to be women. For the democrats this has been a social engineering experiment that was doomed from the start because the Afghans as a people refused to tolerate it and preferred the Taliban as bad as they are over what the democrats were dorcing on them.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2021, 11:31:14 am »
Ignorant sanctimonious blather from another lefty.
Alexander internalized the primary dictum of war; KNOW YOUR ENEMY AND TREAT HIM ACCORDINGLY!
When the Bactrians (now Afghans) harassed his military following Gaugamela, he chased them into the
mountains till thy dissipated.
Instead we insisted on making them model citizens of the world. How pious of us.
The missed opportunity is that the Taliban was gathering on the roads into Kabul, and no one was delivering ordnance on them.  The contractors who maintained the afghan Air Force were shut down on June 29th, and I'd wager few of those aircraft were in any shape to fly. The pullout was not coordinated with our allies, leaving them in a bind.

Had US air assets been in place, this pullout could have been the opportunity to destroy much of the Taliban and send a clear message other than the unfortunate one sent. From a strategic/tactical standpoint this was handled abominably, and that will affect our foreign policy going forward, at least as long a these fools are in office, and beyond because a change in administration now means all bets are off.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Absalom

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2021, 03:44:55 pm »
The missed opportunity is that the Taliban was gathering on the roads into Kabul, and no one was delivering ordnance on them.  The contractors who maintained the afghan Air Force were shut down on June 29th, and I'd wager few of those aircraft were in any shape to fly. The pullout was not coordinated with our allies, leaving them in a bind.
Had US air assets been in place, this pullout could have been the opportunity to destroy much of the Taliban and send a clear message other than the unfortunate one sent. From a strategic/tactical standpoint this was handled abominably, and that will affect our foreign policy going forward, at least as long a these fools are in office, and beyond because a change in administration means all bets are off.
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The impact of this disaster on the USA will last far longer than our political assholery realize.
When a Great Power makes a catastrophic fool of itself it "looses face", most critically among
its allies and friends while emboldening its enemies and opponents.
As a consequence the clock of history begins to measure the time it will remain a Great Power.


Offline txradioguy

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2021, 12:24:53 am »
The missed opportunity is that the Taliban was gathering on the roads into Kabul, and no one was delivering ordnance on them.  The contractors who maintained the afghan Air Force were shut down on June 29th, and I'd wager few of those aircraft were in any shape to fly. The pullout was not coordinated with our allies, leaving them in a bind.

Had US air assets been in place, this pullout could have been the opportunity to destroy much of the Taliban and send a clear message other than the unfortunate one sent. From a strategic/tactical standpoint this was handled abominably, and that will affect our foreign policy going forward, at least as long a these fools are in office, and beyond because a change in administration now means all bets are off.

We had the best opportunity to kill large formations of Taliban on the battlefield since probably 2001 and this administration blew it.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2021, 02:10:31 am »
This is on everybody who supported Biden "because Trump did mean Tweets".

 :thumbsup:  We know who they are.  All have TRUMP ENVY.

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2021, 02:11:21 am »
Under Obama/Biden/Biden it was never about winning a war or even nation building, it was about forcing normality of homosexuality, LGTBwhatever other alphabeters on the populace and forcing a percentage of the government to be women. For the democrats this has been a social engineering experiment that was doomed from the start because the Afghans as a people refused to tolerate it and preferred the Taliban as bad as they are over what the democrats were dorcing on them.


 :bingo: :thumbsup:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2021, 06:44:04 pm »
We had the best opportunity to kill large formations of Taliban on the battlefield since probably 2001 and this administration blew it.
Frankly, just like what was happening when Saigon fell, and it was blown in the same way. (Massed NVA moving south would have made excellent air targets--but no air assets.)

Sadly, this was done even after the wild success at shredding Saddam's forces on the highways going out of Kuwait.

That could have been the Taliban's future...

I have never been in the military (and really appreciate all who have served), but couldn't some general somewhere think of this as an opportunity to strike instead of panic and hide?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2021, 06:46:51 pm »
I'm not the adult in charge, Biden is.  He F'ed up big time.  I just hope he doesn't compound it by turning this into another Mogadishu.
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Online Wingnut

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2021, 06:50:25 pm »
I'm not the adult in charge, Biden is.  He F'ed up big time.  I just hope he doesn't compound it by turning this into another Mogadishu.

Why would he invade Cedar-Riverside, Minneapolis?
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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2021, 07:03:04 pm »
Frankly, just like what was happening when Saigon fell, and it was blown in the same way. (Massed NVA moving south would have made excellent air targets--but no air assets.)

Sadly, this was done even after the wild success at shredding Saddam's forces on the highways going out of Kuwait.

That could have been the Taliban's future...

I have never been in the military (and really appreciate all who have served), but couldn't some general somewhere think of this as an opportunity to strike instead of panic and hide?

 :yowsa: Exactly right @Smokin Joe
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2021, 07:56:13 pm »
Frankly, just like what was happening when Saigon fell, and it was blown in the same way. (Massed NVA moving south would have made excellent air targets--but no air assets.)

Sadly, this was done even after the wild success at shredding Saddam's forces on the highways going out of Kuwait.

That could have been the Taliban's future...

We bombed Highway 80 (Highway of Death) so badly they had just finally cleared all the vehicles when I was there the first time in 1994.  The bi share of vehicles is freaky as (bleep) I o walk through. 

Quote
I have never been in the military (and really appreciate all who have served), but couldn't some general somewhere think of this as an opportunity to strike instead of panic and hide?

Last general to have that kind of initiative was Carter Ham the night of the attacks on Benghazi.

It cost him his career and the message was sent to the rest of the GO Corps.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline goatprairie

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2021, 08:00:05 pm »
Ignorant sanctimonious blather from another lefty.
Alexander internalized the primary dictum of war; KNOW YOUR ENEMY AND TREAT HIM ACCORDINGLY!
When the Bactrians (now Afghans) harassed his military following Gaugamela, he chased them into the
mountains till thy dissipated.
Instead we insisted on making them model citizens of the world. How pious of us.
The so-called civilized countries of the world are sooner than later going have to realize that sub-moron level people will have to be either conquered or eliminated to stop them from being a threat to civilized countries.  After 20 years it's clear that most violent, stupid savages like many Afghani males simply  cannot be civilized.
In the old days of the British empire the evil of stupid/violent people like Afghani males was limited to their own country. If no foreign powers went into Afghanistan, there were no repercussions on the international level.
Times change. Now people who are dumber than boxes of rocks are internationally dangerous.
What if another 9/11 happens because of letting the Taliban back into power? Just say well, that's too bad, what's for dinner?
These Islamic nuts will continue to be dangerous until some country with few or no scruples (China?) decides to put an end to their dangerous stupidity once and for all.

Offline goatprairie

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2021, 08:05:10 pm »
It is also on every Republican who aided and abetted the Democrats stealing elections in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, and Nevada.
Good grief, stop it. I voted for Trump twice. Guess what? ...he lost...fairly, squarely, and bigly.
Trump ain't coming back, so get over him.
We need a decent champion to fight Biden and the rest of the Democrat creeps for the future.
Trump isn't the answer.

Offline goatprairie

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Re: Afghanistan Is Your Fault
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2021, 08:08:22 pm »
We had the best opportunity to kill large formations of Taliban on the battlefield since probably 2001 and this administration blew it.
The guy who killed Bin Laden, Rob O'Neal, on Greg Gutfeld's show said he couldn't understand why we just didn't send in a few jdams when the idiot Taliban leaders were all gathered together in the palace to laugh at America on tv. It would have been so simple.