Pence unloads on Trump: Former VP says 'nothing more un-American than idea that one person could cho

[Lando Lincoln]

Here is the observant and prescient post by @massadvj:

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,418946.msg2318539.html#msg2318539

[kevindavis007]

Well, at this point, it is largely moot. You got what you want, and you're gonna get it--good and hard.

Our military is being gutted and turned into romper room for social degenerates, if not being aimed at the people, even as we are being invaded by unprecedented swarms of foreigners at the behest of this administration. Enjoy your new police state, where federal gestapo are picking up people in the early morning for merely attending a rally while letting criminals roam free. Our currency is being inflated, our energy independence squandered, and our enemies enriched and emboldened by the amateurs in the government, even as weaknesses are exposed by the idiot in charge.

Saying Biden won? Not in my neck of the woods (82% for Trump in my county).

You broke it, you bought it. Hey. at least you tweeterites don't have to put up with all those nasty tweets.
And on the odd days when the lights are on, you can charge up your oversized golf cart and drive, well, somewhere close.

I'm no hardcore Trump fan, but I could and did see the good things he did, in spite of a less than cooperative Congress and constant attack.

But Pence will NEVER get a vote from me.

Why cause he obeyed the Constitution????

[kevindavis007]

Unbelievably ridiculous to think that the VP could overturn the will of the people. Do people really think the Framers would have written that in? That's insane.

 

[HoustonSam]

Here is the observant and prescient post by @massadvj:

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,418946.msg2318539.html#msg2318539

Thanks @Lando Lincoln , yes @massadvj  called it well.

For many years the Ds held out totals from urban areas in order to submit adequate results to tip state results their way; 2020 was the first time we saw them do it in obvious, simultaneous collusion from multiple states.

And of course the established media continues to cover for them with a gaslighting campaign.

[Bigun]

@Right_in_Virginia consistently ignores the fact that the electoral votes counted during the Joint Session of Congress beginning January 6 2021 had all been certified by the respective states, and furthermore all states except Wisconsin had certified their results before the "safe harbor deadline" of December 8 2020, which legally obligated Congress to accept the state's electoral votes.   Whether or not we like the procedures used by each of the states, each state's results were certified in accord with its own state law, hence the electors for each state in fact were selected in a "Manner which the Legislature thereof [did] direct."   I agree with many that some of those results should not have been certified, but in fact they were.

Furthermore Right_in_Virginia continues to ignore the obvious fact that the position she advocates would enable Democrat state legislators, acting with no official authority other than their titles, to recall certified electoral votes for Republican candidates on any manufactured fictional pretense or even no pretense at all.  And everyone who reads this board knows that Democrat state legislators would do exactly that.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,440396.msg2447849.html#msg2447849

Right_in_Virginia consistently fails to cite any Constitutional or statutory justification for the idea that a request by state legislators to return the electoral votes of their states can be considered.  Neither the Twelfth Amendment nor the Electoral Vote Count Act of 1887 provides for such a request or even mentions it as a possibility, not when requested as a legal act of the entire state legislature and certainly not when requested by smaller groups of legislators.  Nor is any authority given to the President of the Senate to act on any such requests.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,440396.msg2447974.html#msg2447974

Right_in_Virginia continues a false account of the actual events of the Joint Session of Congress, maintaining that no objections to state electoral votes were allowed once Congress re-convened after the demonstration; in fact contemporaneous media reports prove that objections to PA's electoral votes were raised and fully considered after Congress re-convened.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,440396.msg2447967.html#msg2447967

Each of these points has already been made to Right_in_Virginia; she has completely failed to rebut any of them and merely repeats her erroneous premises and fallacious conclusions.  Her continued insistence on a theory supported by neither Constitution nor statute, which would set a disastrous political precedent and is based in part on a counter-factual narrative, simply creates confusion.  Her position on this subject should be actively rejected as often as she presents it.

@Right_in_Virginia cited the law correctly in the part you quoted @HoustonSam you have a problem. Do you, like Pence, have a problem with following the law?

[HoustonSam]

@Right_in_Virginia cited the law correctly in the part you quoted @HoustonSam you have a problem. Do you, like Pence, have a problem with following the law?

I make the same offer to you @Bigun  that I've made to @Right_in_Virginia : simply cite the specific provision of the Twelfth Amendment, or of the Electoral Vote Count Act of 1887, or of the Code of Federal Regulations, that empowers state legislators to recall the certified, state-sealed electoral votes submitted by their states.  "Cite" does not mean tell me which part of the Constitution or later statutes or CFR describes how the EVs are counted, it means show where any of these documents actually say that state legislators can recall the votes submitted by their states.  Merely repeating "Electors Clause" or indicating a CFR Chapter Number is misrepresentation.

Actual text please, not your pet Penumbras and Emanations.

And while you're at it perhaps you can explain how a Conservative Federalist advocates the authority of a Federal official to overturn the act of a state.

[Bigun]

I make the same offer to you @Bigun  that I've made to @Right_in_Virginia : simply cite the specific provision of the Twelfth Amendment, or of the Electoral Vote Count Act of 1887, or of the Code of Federal Regulations, that empowers state legislators to recall the certified, state-sealed electoral votes submitted by their states.  "Cite" does not mean tell me which part of the Constitution or later statutes or CFR describes how the EVs are counted, it means show where any of these documents actually say that state legislators can recall the votes submitted by their states.  Merely repeating "Electors Clause" or indicating a CFR Chapter Number is misrepresentation.

Actual text please, not your pet Penumbras and Emanations.

And while you're at it perhaps you can explain how a Conservative Federalist advocates the authority of a Federal official to overturn the act of a state.

Ha Ha! MY pet Penumbras and Emanations indeed!  Physician heal thyself!

And BTW @HoustonSam your sophistry is unbecoming.  The PROPER constitutionally mandated people of states should have been allowed to act. I.E. the legislatures.

[HoustonSam]

Ha Ha! MY pet Penumbras and Emanations indeed!  Physician heal thyself!

Funny, I don't see any cites to actual text here.

[HoustonSam]

Ha Ha! MY pet Penumbras and Emanations indeed!  Physician heal thyself!

And BTW @HoustonSam your sophistry is unbecoming.  The PROPER constitutionally mandated people of states should have been allowed to act. I.E. the legislatures.

You know I still can't find your cites to the actual text of any legal document.  "Should have been allowed to act" is nothing more than your opinion - whether Penumbra or Emanation you can decide.

Furthermore even your opinion mis-states what actually happened.  Not a single legislature made any attempt to recall EVs.  Legislators made the attempts, not legislatures.  You can prove me wrong here by citing even one resolution or act passed by any state legislature to recall EVs from Congress.  Members of the PA House introduced such a resolution, but it went nowhere.

I'm afraid @Bigun you've wandered into the wrong room.  Around here we believe in what the law actually says, not what someone wishes it said, and we're very particular about federal officials overturning what states have done, even when those states got it completely wrong.

[sneakypete]

All you guys need to stop throwing rocks at each other over this. It is a done deal,and there is not a damn thing any of you can do about it but gloat if you are  a RINO that hates Bad Orange Man because he has bad manners.

If you hate Pence for being a gutless weasel hoping to be repaid with a Presidential nomination,all you can do is kick your dog and call your neighbors names. The FACT that he is never going to be the President is irrelevant to anyone but him. What IS relevant is that he sold his soul for the promise of power,and what he did is a done deal that will NOT be undone by anyone with the power to do anything about it. And even THAT is ASSUMING that someone DOES have that power.

Even to try would almost certainly lead to open revolt and Americans killing each other in the streets,and nobody from any side wants to see this happen if possible.

Once again,done deal. You can NOT unring a bell,and this one quit pealing a long time ago.

Those of you who are RINO's or leftists should focus on different methods of suicide,and those of you who supported Trump need to focus on getting Trump elected and holding his feet to the fire to make sure he does his best to restore America to ACTUAL Constitutional law,as opposed to the "Constitutional Law" the Dims seem to pull out of cereal boxes.

[skeeter]

Post of the day, @sneakypete

[GtHawk]

 

All you guys need to stop throwing rocks at each other over this. It is a done deal,and there is not a damn thing any of you can do about it but gloat if you are  a RINO that hates Bad Orange Man because he has bad manners.

If you hate Pence for being a gutless weasel hoping to be repaid with a Presidential nomination,all you can do is kick your dog and call your neighbors names. The FACT that he is never going to be the President is irrelevant to anyone but him. What IS relevant is that he sold his soul for the promise of power,and what he did is a done deal that will NOT be undone by anyone with the power to do anything about it. And even THAT is ASSUMING that someone DOES have that power.

Even to try would almost certainly lead to open revolt and Americans killing each other in the streets,and nobody from any side wants to see this happen if possible.

Once again,done deal. You can NOT unring a bell,and this one quit pealing a long time ago.

Those of you who are RINO's or leftists should focus on different methods of suicide,and those of you who supported Trump need to focus on getting Trump elected and holding his feet to the fire to make sure he does his best to restore America to ACTUAL Constitutional law,as opposed to the "Constitutional Law" the Dims seem to pull out of cereal boxes.

@sneakypete
 
Maybe the site should order some of these

[Right_in_Virginia]

All you guys need to stop throwing rocks at each other over this. It is a done deal,and there is not a damn thing any of you can do about it but gloat if you are  a RINO that hates Bad Orange Man because he has bad manners.

If you hate Pence for being a gutless weasel hoping to be repaid with a Presidential nomination,all you can do is kick your dog and call your neighbors names. The FACT that he is never going to be the President is irrelevant to anyone but him. What IS relevant is that he sold his soul for the promise of power,and what he did is a done deal that will NOT be undone by anyone with the power to do anything about it. And even THAT is ASSUMING that someone DOES have that power.

Even to try would almost certainly lead to open revolt and Americans killing each other in the streets,and nobody from any side wants to see this happen if possible.

Once again,done deal. You can NOT unring a bell,and this one quit pealing a long time ago.

Those of you who are RINO's or leftists should focus on different methods of suicide,and those of you who supported Trump need to focus on getting Trump elected and holding his feet to the fire to make sure he does his best to restore America to ACTUAL Constitutional law,as opposed to the "Constitutional Law" the Dims seem to pull out of cereal boxes.

Good post @sneakypete   .... Except I don't think this debate is about unringing a bell. 

After all that's happened, hearing Pence preach he didn't choose to help install Biden  -- when he did -- and that he's proud of his actions, is really tough to take.  His lying claims cannot go unanswered.

[Hoodat]

Mike Pence - yet another 2016 Donald Trump Establishment sellout.  He should have chosen someone who was already actively trying to drain the swamp instead of selling out to Priebus and his cadre.

[Bigun]

Post of the day, @sneakypete

  @sneakypete makes me question the point of conversing with anyone on the internet at all.  All it does is wastes my time and pisses off the pigs.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

 

Imo this is the right wings version of wokeness.

[libertybele]

[skeeter]

@sneakypete makes me question the point of conversing with anyone on the internet at all.  All it does is wastes my time and pisses off the pigs.

On the other hand there are more than a few who enjoy reading and value what you have to say, @Bigun hope you keep it up.

[libertybele]

On the other hand there are more than a few who enjoy reading and value what you have to say, @Bigun hope you keep it up.

 

[HoustonSam]

Same offer to you @libertybele , all you have to do is cite the specific provision in the law that authorizes the President of the Senate to send back certified, state-sealed EVs on the request of state legislators.  You get to choose from the Twelfth Amendment, the Electoral Count Act of 1887, and Title 3 of the US Code of Federal Regulations.  With all this law to choose from, surely it's in there somewhere.

So far no one has accepted my offer; @Bigun and @Right_in_Virginia both punted.  Maybe you'll do better.

[libertybele]

 I had submitted this info in a prior post. The fact remains that Pence DID NOT call for any objections; meanwhile Cruz and Hawley had taken the appropriate avenues to do just that.  They were ignored and the objections were never heard nor recognized.  Pence went ahead and certified the EV's anyways.     

Not saying that Pence had the authority to send the EV's back to the state but he absolutely had the authority and in fact duty to call for objections. It would have been up to Congress to settle upon any objections. Congress never got the chance to settle or vote on any objections because Pence never called for any objections. 

Would it have changed anything perhaps not, but Pence gave up that chance. Traitor? That's how I see him.

3 U.S. Code § 15 - Counting electoral votes in Congress

    U.S. Code


Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received.

----------------------------

In reference to what Cruz was trying to  also accomplish he said that there should be an election commission made of five senators, five representatives and five Supreme Court justices to “to conduct an emergency 10-day audit of the election returns in the disputed states.” He models this commission after the one created following the disputed 1876 election and sets the timeline so the audit can be completed before inauguration day on January 20.               
                                     
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/verify/verify-what-happens-congress-member-objects-election-results/507-3e654439-9b05-4c2e-a18c-0e8f8b413e28

[HoustonSam]

I had submitted this info in a prior post. The fact remains that Pence DID NOT call for any objections; meanwhile Cruz and Hawley had taken the appropriate avenues to do just that.  They were ignored and the objections were never heard nor recognized.  Pence went ahead and certified the EV's anyways.

I've already proven upthread in reply #36 that this is not true :

False.

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-democrats-object-more-states-2016-republicans-2020-1561407

https://www.npr.org/sections/insurrection-at-the-capitol/2021/01/07/954380156/here-are-the-republicans-who-objected-to-the-electoral-college-count

https://ballotpedia.org/Counting_of_electoral_votes_(January_6-7,_2021)

https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/2020

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Electoral_College_vote_count

The only states for which Senators submitted written objections were Arizona and Pennsylvania.  Since House members had also submitted written objections for these states, in both instances the Joint Session adjourned to separate sessions of each chamber, in accord with the Electoral Count Act of 1887.

The demonstration occurred during the consideration of the objections to AZ's EVs in each chamber; the objections to PA's EVs took place in each chamber after the Joint Session re-convened when the demonstration had been cleared.

Please cite a reference for the assertion that written objections from members of both chambers were ignored.

Five independent media accounts and summaries all agree that the only states for which any Senator submitted an objection were AZ and PA, and both were heard.  Not a single item of evidence has been submitted here by anyone to document the assertion that Pence ignored properly-written objections.  It is not true that Pence failed to call for objections.  Where did you hear that anyway?

In reference to what Cruz was trying to  also accomplish he said that there should be an election commission made of five senators, five representatives and five Supreme Court justices to “to conduct an emergency 10-day audit of the election returns in the disputed states.” He models this commission after the one created following the disputed 1876 election and sets the timeline so the audit can be completed before inauguration day on January 20.               

Cruz's suggested 10 day audit died for lack of support among Republicans.  Pence had nothing to do with that.

[Hoodat]

Cruz's suggested 10 day audit died for lack of support among Republicans.  Pence had nothing to do with that.

The Republican Party as a whole was willing to let the Dems steal the election in order to rid themselves of the interloper, Donald Trump.  Having absolute control at the national level of the entire GOP Party is THE Number One goal.  And with Donald Trump in the White House, that was a big obstacle towards their goal.

Ted Cruz understood this more than anyone.  You think that things are bad now?  Just wait until the 2022 elections.  The RSCC is already running Senate ads in Georgia against Rafael Warnock, a candidate they could have easily defeated in 2020 if they hadn't cut deals with Democrats overturning election rules.

[libertybele]

The Republican Party as a whole was willing to let the Dems steal the election in order to rid themselves of the interloper, Donald Trump.  Having absolute control at the national level of the entire GOP Party is THE Number One goal.  And with Donald Trump in the White House, that was a big obstacle towards their goal.

Ted Cruz understood this more than anyone.  You think that things are bad now?  Just wait until the 2022 elections.  The RSCC is already running Senate ads in Georgia against Rafael Warnock, a candidate they could have easily defeated in 2020 if they hadn't cut deals with Democrats overturning election rules.

As of now I won't be voting in the 2022 election. The next steal is already in.  Why bother?

[kevindavis007]

Mike Pence is NO TRAITOR!!! Stop it with this Bulls**t FFS!