Trump: 'I have not conceded' 2020 loss; might have 'different president' now if not for Pence choice

[mystery-ak]

Trump: 'I have not conceded' 2020 loss; might have 'different president' now if not for Pence choice

On the possibility of being reinstated as president if the 2020 contest is verified as fraudulent, Trump said such a decision would be "up to public" or "perhaps politicians."


By Alex Nitzberg

Updated: June 21, 2021 - 6:02pm

   

Former President Donald Trump said Monday that he has not conceded the 2020 presidential race,  that if the election is proven fraudulent it will be up to the public and "perhaps politicians" to decide how to respond, and that if Mike Pence had sent disputed election results back to state legislatures for review the country "might very well have a different president right now."

"No, I never admitted defeat," Trump told Just the News' "Water Cooler" in an exclusive interview on Real America's Voice.

"We have a lot of things happening right now ... all you have to do is read the newspapers and see what's coming out now," he said, adding that he has "not conceded."

Last week during an interview with conservative commentator Sean Hannity Trump had remarked about the 2020 contest that "shockingly, we were supposed to win easily at 64 million votes and we got 75 million votes and we didn't win, but let's see what happens on that."

Trump told the "The Water Cooler" host David Brody Monday that if the election was tainted by fraud any decision on reinstating him as president would fall to the public or possibly to politicians.

"If the election was fraudulent, people are gonna have to make up their own minds," he said. "It's not gonna be up to me. It's gonna be up to the public. It's gonna be up to, perhaps, politicians. I don't think there's ever been a case like this where hundreds of thousands of votes will be found. So we'll have to see what happens."

more
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/former-president-trump-2020-presidential-election-i-have-not

[The_Reader_David]

Trump is still hawking the delusional interpretation of the Constitution under which the Vice President as President of the Senate can single-handedly overturn an election by refusing to count the votes of the electors.  The Vice President's duties in this regard are purely ministerial:  he (or she) is to count the votes of the electors as submitted by the states.

This insanity is reason enough to hope he does not even try for the GOP nomination inf 2024, and is denied it in favor of someone who actually understands the Constitution if he does run again.

[LegalAmerican]

Trump is still hawking the delusional interpretation of the Constitution under which the Vice President as President of the Senate can single-handedly overturn an election by refusing to count the votes of the electors.  The Vice President's duties in this regard are purely ministerial:  he (or she) is to count the votes of the electors as submitted by the states.

This insanity is reason enough to hope he does not even try for the GOP nomination inf 2024, and is denied it in favor of someone who actually understands the Constitution if he does run again.

You are wrong. That is not what VP can do.

[HoustonSam]

Trump's comments simply perpetuate conflict within the R party.  This is not helpful.

[skeeter]

The GOPe be damned, there's never a wrong time for the truth

[The_Reader_David]

You are wrong. That is not what VP can do.

You're right:  he can only open the votes, and someone unspecified is to count them (though since it's not specified, I suppose he can count them as he opens them):

"The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted," is all the 12th Amendment says about the process, and the pre-12th Amendment text in Article I is almost identical.

Even less power than I attributed to him, and none at all to support Trump's delusional claims.

[HoustonSam]

The GOPe be damned, there's never a wrong time for the truth

Regardless of which side is Trump or GOPe, there is just no Constitutional or statutory basis for the position Trump took regarding Pence's authority to influence counting the EVs.

Think about this - we all know the President of the Senate is also the VP, and the VP will frequently be a candidate on one of the tickets, either as a VP nominee for re-election or as the Presidential nominee, trying to "step up".  Does anyone seriously think it's a good idea for one of the candidates to have some influence over how the votes are counted, or that the founders or the authors of later statutes intended to give one of the candidates that influence?

The election of 2020 was FUBAR, but the last chance to do anything expired when the states certified results within the "safe harbor" deadline.  On January 6 it was way too late.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Sigh.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Trump is still hawking the delusional interpretation of the Constitution under which the Vice President as President of the Senate can single-handedly overturn an election by refusing to count the votes of the electors.  The Vice President's duties in this regard are purely ministerial:  he (or she) is to count the votes of the electors as submitted by the states.

What I'm about to post @The_Reader_David is, for some, considered to be very complicated.  So be forewarned:  Attention should be given:

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Constituion (of the United States) states in the Electors Clause that "Each State shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of Electors equal to [...]"  IOW, that legislature in each state is solely responsible for certifying the electors from their state.

Prior to Jan 6, 2021 (an arbitrary deadline set by Congress, not by the Constitution) representatives from five separate state legislatures sent a letter to the President of the Senate (the Vice President) detailing their concerns about and proof to date of fraud not known when the electors were previously certified.  The representatives from the STATE LEGISLATURES requested a 10 day review period to confirm the legality of the certification or perform a recertification to bring electors in line with state law.

NOTICE:  Not one legislative representative asked the President of the Senate to overturn an election or render void the electors.  They asked for the President of the Senate to suspend final recording of the electors until the men and women given the SOLE responsibility for choosing electors have a chance to review the legality of the certification. 

Pence's first offense:  He arbitrarily overruled the US Constitution and denied the requests from the ones given the sole authority to appoint and certify electors.  IOW, when representatives of state legislatures say, "Something stinks in Denmark, we need to take a second look", the President of the Senate has no authority to deny the request.

Let me REPEAT:  No one asked the President of the Senate to overturn an election or render void electors.  Mike Pence was asked to follow the Constitution and allow each of the five legislatures 10 days to confirm or correct the legality of prior certifications.   Remember, January 6 is a deadline set by Congress, not the Constitution.

January 6, 2021

"3 U.S. Code § 15  - Counting Electoral Votes in Congress" states: "Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received." .

Pence's second offense:  When Congress reconvened after the "insurrection", the President of the Senate arbitrarily stopped the call for objections as he continued to record the certified electors as submitted --- even though those lined up had the objection in writing signed by at least one Senator and one member of the House of Representatives.  Pence simply stared down the incredulous lawmakers before him as he pounded them into silence with this gavel.

Again, NOTICE:  No one was asking Mike Pence to do anything other than follow the law.  No one expected any certifications to be overturned.  If the objection had been made and sustained, the certification as submitted would have been returned to (say it with me) the STATE LEGISLATURES for review.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks for your attention. 

[HoustonSam]

What I'm about to post @The_Reader_David is, for some, considered to be very complicated.  So be forewarned:  Attention should be given:

<No personal attacks>

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,440396.msg2447967.html#msg2447967

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,440396.msg2447974.html#msg2447974

<No personal attacks>

[Right_in_Virginia]

FTA:

Trump said that he is "disappointed" that former Vice President Mike Pence did not kick some states' electoral vote counts back to their state legislatures for review, speculating that if Pence had done so there may have been a different president in office today.

"Well, I've always liked Mike, and I'm very disappointed that he didn't send it back to the legislatures," he said.

[LegalAmerican]

What I'm about to post @The_Reader_David is, for some, considered to be very complicated.  So be forewarned:  Attention should be given:

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Constituion (of the United States) states in the Electors Clause that "Each State shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of Electors equal to [...]"  IOW, that legislature in each state is solely responsible for certifying the electors from their state.

Prior to Jan 6, 2021 (an arbitrary deadline set by Congress, not by the Constitution) representatives from five separate state legislatures sent a letter to the President of the Senate (the Vice President) detailing their concerns about and proof to date of fraud not known when the electors were previously certified.  The representatives from the STATE LEGISLATURES requested a 10 day review period to confirm the legality of the certification or perform a recertification to bring electors in line with state law.

NOTICE:  Not one legislative representative asked the President of the Senate to overturn an election or render void the electors.  They asked for the President of the Senate to suspend final recording of the electors until the men and women given the SOLE responsibility for choosing electors have a chance to review the legality of the certification. 

Pence's first offense:  He arbitrarily overruled the US Constitution and denied the requests from the ones given the sole authority to appoint and certify electors.  IOW, when representatives of state legislatures say, "Something stinks in Denmark, we need to take a second look", the President of the Senate has no authority to deny the request.

Let me REPEAT:  No one asked the President of the Senate to overturn an election or render void electors.  Mike Pence was asked to follow the Constitution and allow each of the five legislatures 10 days to confirm or correct the legality of prior certifications.   Remember, January 6 is a deadline set by Congress, not the Constitution.

January 6, 2021
Pence's second offense:  When Congress reconvened after the "insurrection", the President of the Senate arbitrarily stopped the call for objections as he continued to record the certified electors as submitted --- even though those lined up had the objection in writing signed by at least one Senator and one member of the House of Representatives.  Pence simply stared down the incredulous lawmakers before him as he pounded them into silence with this gavel.

Again, NOTICE:  No one was asking Mike Pence to do anything other than follow the law.  No one expected any certifications to be overturned.  If the objection had been made and sustained, the certification as submitted would have been returned to (say it with me) the STATE LEGISLATURES for review.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks for your attention. 

Thank you.   

[roamer_1]

Sigh.

yeah.

[HoustonSam]

<No personal attacks>

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,440396.msg2447967.html#msg2447967

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,440396.msg2447974.html#msg2447974

<No personal attacks>

Fair enough, I'll acknowledge when I've crossed a line.

Although this subject has become tiresome, it's a fair bet it will come up again; whenever it does a factual, logical summary will be important.  So let's try it this way instead, as a draft of a standard "boilerplate" response to set the record straight as often as necessary :

@Right_in_Virginia consistently ignores the fact that the electoral votes counted during the Joint Session of Congress beginning January 6 2021 had all been certified by the respective states, and furthermore all states except Wisconsin had certified their results before the "safe harbor deadline" of December 8 2020, which legally obligated Congress to accept the state's electoral votes.   Whether or not we like the procedures used by each of the states, each state's results were certified in accord with its own state law, hence the electors for each state in fact were selected in a "Manner which the Legislature thereof [did] direct."   I agree with many that some of those results should not have been certified, but in fact they were.

Furthermore Right_in_Virginia continues to ignore the obvious fact that the position she advocates would enable Democrat state legislators, acting with no official authority other than their titles, to recall certified electoral votes for Republican candidates on any manufactured fictional pretense or even no pretense at all.  And everyone who reads this board knows that Democrat state legislators would do exactly that.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,440396.msg2447849.html#msg2447849

Right_in_Virginia consistently fails to cite any Constitutional or statutory justification for the idea that a request by state legislators to return the electoral votes of their states can be considered.  Neither the Twelfth Amendment nor the Electoral Vote Count Act of 1887 provides for such a request or even mentions it as a possibility, not when requested as a legal act of the entire state legislature and certainly not when requested by smaller groups of legislators.  Nor is any authority given to the President of the Senate to act on any such requests.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,440396.msg2447974.html#msg2447974

Right_in_Virginia continues a false account of the actual events of the Joint Session of Congress, maintaining that no objections to state electoral votes were allowed once Congress re-convened after the demonstration; in fact contemporaneous media reports prove that objections to PA's electoral votes were raised and fully considered after Congress re-convened.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,440396.msg2447967.html#msg2447967

Each of these points has already been made to Right_in_Virginia; she has completely failed to rebut any of them and merely repeats her erroneous premises and fallacious conclusions.  Her continued insistence on a theory supported by neither Constitution nor statute, which would set a disastrous political precedent and is based in part on a counter-factual narrative, simply creates confusion.  Her position on this subject should be actively rejected as often as she presents it.

@Cyber Liberty

[jafo2010]

Even if it is officially recognized the 2020 election was fraudulent, Trump would NOT be reinstated as POTUS.  And if I were him, I am not sure I would want it.  He has already been cheated out of half a year as POTUS, and I think that matters. Right or wrong, I say let Biden serve the term out and run again.  The Dem Congress would just turn around and impeach Trump, and they have the majorities to do it.  So it makes no sense to pursue that course of action.

Let the election be proven to be fraudulent, and let the Dems live with that albatross around their neck for the next 30 years.

[skeeter]

Even if it is officially recognized the 2020 election was fraudulent, Trump would NOT be reinstated as POTUS.  And if I were him, I am not sure I would want it.  He has already been cheated out of half a year as POTUS, and I think that matters. Right or wrong, I say let Biden serve the term out and run again.  The Dem Congress would just turn around and impeach Trump, and they have the majorities to do it.  So it makes no sense to pursue that course of action.

Let the election be proven to be fraudulent, and let the Dems live with that albatross around their neck for the next 30 years.

Absolutely correct. It’s not about reinstating Trump. There is no structure to make that happen. But it is about proving beyond reasonable doubt the rats cheated him out of office. Hopefully this would traumatize (most of) the electorate, so to speak, to the point the political establishment is knocked off its current ideological trajectory. But that would require a GOP that would act in its own, or its base’s, interests.

[txradioguy]

The fact of the matter is that even IF the state audits show fraud and the fraudulent votes are tossed out...it doesn't mean that Trump would be reinstated as President.

What you'd have temporarily is President Pelosi because that's what the order of succession would dictate.  And that would last as long as the Dems are the majority.

There's no provision in the Constitution for the overturning of a fraudulent election.  There is no way to find a legal recourse via the SCOTUS.

To have a remedy for something like this it would require a 28th Amendment to our Constitution.

But at the end of the day...Trump isn't going to be "installed' as President no matter how badly some people wish it so.

[HoustonSam]

Let the election be proven to be fraudulent, and let the Dems live with that albatross around their neck for the next 30 years.

Realistic and very wise @jafo2010 .  And the same feedback to @skeeter and @txradioguy .