Catholic bishops advance effort to deny Biden communion

[roamer_1]

----------------------------------
A respectful observation.
Certainly Religion has its place in the front row of Rule Makers, yet
Natural Law, discerned from Human Nature, thru Logic and Reason
in the early existence of Mankind, precedes all Religions.
The Ancients grasped this, among them the Wise Plato who defined
the Psyche (Soul) of Man some 400 years before Jesus Christ and the
formation of Roman Catholicism.

Ah, but not before Moses who walked with Yah... and told of the time before... long before. There is no philosophy of Man that predates Torah. It was, from the beginning.

[Smokin Joe]

‘I dare you’: Pro-abortion Democrat Ted Lieu challenges Catholic bishops to deny him Communion
June 19, 2021 | BPR Wire

Democratic California Rep. Ted Lieu publicly challenged Catholic bishops Friday to deny him Communion for supporting contraception, abortion, same sex marriage and more.

Lieu responded to news that the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) overwhelmingly approved a measure Friday to draft a statement discussing whether high profile pro-abortion politicians, like President Joe Biden, may be denied Communion.

more
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/06/19/i-dare-you-pro-abortion-democrat-ted-lieu-challenges-catholic-bishops-to-deny-him-communion-1091191/

Just excommunicate them.

[Smokin Joe]

I will assume that you are not an Evangelical Christian, or Catholic, based on your post.

Let me educate you a little bit on Christianity. As Christians we do not "own" our bodies. We are bondservants to our Savior Jesus Christ. IOW, if we truly abide in Christ we happily follow his commands, so we really don't get to do whatever we want with our bodies.

You are correct that a Christian does not have to be member of a congregation to be saved, but what you will find is all Christians that are saved have faith in Christ alone and having that faith lived their lives on earth trying to walk by faith abiding by God's will.

So in answer to your post Scripture is very clear about things we should not be doing, or supporting.

@Hoodat
@roamer_1

No argument, especially about how we treat these vessels WRT to that which we have been scripturally informed is the proper care and use of our bodies.

That said, The Almighty has given us the choice, to follow his will or not. Within the context of a Church (any church) the Church is free to lay down its rules and to give you the boot if you won't follow them.

Open and conspicuous defiance of Church doctrine against abortion and homosexuality is cause sufficient to deny the association with any church which doctrinally objects to those practices.

You want the sacraments, step in line or don't expect to get them there.

Maybe Ted and Joe and Nancy can start their own church, they act enough like Tudors already.

[Absalom]

Ah, but not before Moses who walked with Yah... and told of the time before... long before. There is no philosophy of Man that predates Torah. It was, from the beginning.

--------------------------
Roamer,
Yes indeed Old Testament Judaism came first, yet the Rule
of Natural Law guided Man's behavior from earliest days,
as the Scholastics acknowledged.
As you already know, there is no fundamental clash between
the Precepts of Natural Law and the Commandments of
Roman Catholicism, along side the various Protestant Faiths.
Conflict arises when a Religion such as Islam, is politicized!

[roamer_1]

--------------------------
Roamer,
Yes indeed Old Testament Judaism came first, yet the Rule
of Natural Law guided Man's behavior from earliest days,
as the Scholastics acknowledged.
As you already know, there is no fundamental clash between
the Precepts of Natural Law and the Commandments of
Roman Catholicism, along side the various Protestant Faiths.
Conflict arises when a Religion such as Islam, is politicized!

Ah, but I would argue they are the commandments of Yah, not the Romans or the Protestants, or the Jews.
And the commandments of Yah inform natural law, not the other way around.
 

[DCPatriot]

Another religious debate?   

Why is it that every thread needs to stay on topic except this one?   

@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
@MOD3

[Victoria33]

"Why is it that every thread needs to stay on topic except this one?"

BECAUSE @mystery-ak OWNS THE PLACE - CAN DO WHAT SHE WANTS.   

[Absalom]

Ah, but I would argue they are the commandments of Yah, not the Romans or the Protestants, or the Jews.
And the commandments of Yah inform natural law, not the other way around.
 

------------------------------
Roamer,
I'll accept you argument as I can't prove otherwise.
Most critically, time puts these events so far in the past, they are beyond scholarship.
Stay well.

[roamer_1]

------------------------------
Roamer,
I'll accept you argument as I can't prove otherwise.
Most critically, time puts these events so far in the past, they are beyond scholarship.
Stay well.

I won't go on, but there are stunning proofs contained within the Book that make scholarly opinions moot.
But that's a subject matter for the porch and about a gallon of sweet tea... And that would be a hella good time.

You stay well too friend

[DCPatriot]

"Why is it that every thread needs to stay on topic except this one?"

BECAUSE @mystery-ak OWNS THE PLACE - CAN DO WHAT SHE WANTS.

WTH are you yapping about?

Nobody is questioning who owns the place.  Shut your pie hole.

1) We are constantly being told to stay on topic of threads
2) This ain't a religious debate forum and have been warned about it more times than we can count.

[roamer_1]

WTH are you yapping about?

Nobody is questioning who owns the place.  Shut your pie hole.

1) We are constantly being told to stay on topic of threads
2) This ain't a religious debate forum and have been warned about it more times than we can count.

Not today we ain't... And the conversation is pretty well over, so...

And nobody's making you look at it either.

[Hoodat]

I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live

Deuteronomy 30:19

[Hoodat]

Every person owns his/her body - the church does not, the government does not, own that body.  He/she can do what he/she wants with his/her body.

No government is standing in the way of that.  No government is denying a woman the choice of doing with her body what she wants to do.  No government is preventing a woman from using her womb as a sperm receptacle.  She and she alone gets to choose whether she will engage in an action that leads to the creation of a new singular life.

If a woman wants to abort a pregnancy, she can.

You just moved the goal posts.  We have shifted from the body of the mother to the body of the baby.

The mother already exercised her free choice.  She chose to allow a man to ejaculate inside of her.  And in doing so, she accepted the consequences of that action, just as the man does.  When she gives birth, the father is obligated by law to provide financial support for that child.  He doesn't get a choice in that, because his choice was already made.

[bilo]

And I am pretty profoundly so... Which might seem an oddity coming from a Torah keeper... But I think you would find me fairly aligned on the principle things... I kinds dig principle things, you know.  But how I would present and secure those solas does not fit in the Reformed box... And that is whence I come - long, long ago... From Calvin and the Dutch Reformed... But I do not follow Calvin anymore... I follow Yeshua.

FWIW, I'm a Baptist in a non-denominational church. I'm not Reformed either, but I do believe they have a lot of things right.

[HoustonSam]

The mother already exercised her free choice.  She chose to allow a man to ejaculate inside of her.  And in doing so, she accepted the consequences of that action, just as the man does.  When she gives birth, the father is obligated by law to provide financial support for that child.  He doesn't get a choice in that, because his choice was already made.

Precisely.  Legalized abortion doesn't just give a woman control over her own body, it gives her control over the body of the child and the resources of the father, and neither the child nor the father has any say in the decision.

If a woman has a right to reject motherhood when pregnancy resulted from casual sex, then why can't a man reject fatherhood when pregnancy resulted from casual sex?  Why is it that the law enables a woman to kill the unborn child, but it will garnish the father's wages to provide for the child?  The father simply abandoning the mother and child does far less harm to the child than the mother killing it in the womb.

Setting aside for the moment arguments about the humanity of the baby, if abortion remains legal then legally-enforced child support from an unmarried father must be ended.  Woman's unilateral right means woman's unilateral responsibility.

[Victoria33]

@bilo
@roamer_1
@mystery-ak
@Cyber Liberty

When a Catholic cannot go to church, there is a "Spiritual Communion" one can use for the sacraments.  I will send this to you by PM.  No one can keep you from using this form of the sacraments.  So this is available for Biden, Pelosi, anyone.  It is between you and God; no priest/pastor needed.

[Hoodat]

So this is available for Biden, Pelosi, anyone.  It is between you and God; no priest/pastor needed.

Just curious.  In your own personal walk with G-d, what do you believe His position is on killing babies in the womb?

[Right_in_Virginia]

There is no philosophy of Man that predates Torah. It was, from the beginning.

Doesn't Zoroastrianism (the Avesta) predate the Torah?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Nope. Other than loosely Christian, and Messianic Christian, which again loosely denotes Christians who follow Torah as part of following Yeshua.

I asked because your use of "House of Yahweh" and Yeshua instead of Jesus Christ reminded me of this group I'd read about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Yahweh

BTW, did you mean "Messianic Judaism" instead of "Messianic Christian"?

[roamer_1]

Doesn't Zoroastrianism (the Avesta) predate the Torah?

No.

[roamer_1]

BTW, did you mean "Messianic Judaism" instead of "Messianic Christian"?

No, I mean what I said. Messianic Judaism holds to the tradition of the Rabbis. I do not. In fact I do not hold to any tradition of men. Sola scriptura in spades.

[bilo]

@bilo
@roamer_1
@mystery-ak
@Cyber Liberty

When a Catholic cannot go to church, there is a "Spiritual Communion" one can use for the sacraments.  I will send this to you by PM.  No one can keep you from using this form of the sacraments.  So this is available for Biden, Pelosi, anyone.  It is between you and God; no priest/pastor needed.

It's really not complicated. If this is your belief then don't ignore the teachings of your church.

It's so typically liberal to expect that you can have all of the benefits with no responsibility or accountability.

[Absalom]

Precisely.  Legalized abortion doesn't just give a woman control over her own body, it gives her control over the body of the child and the resources of the father, and neither the child nor the father has any say in the decision.
Woman's unilateral right means woman's unilateral responsibility.

-------------------------
To your great credit, you linked Rights & Responsibilities, a core theme of Natural Law,
which guided Man from Eden till the Enlightenment, spanning multi-millennia.
Tragically, by embracing the heresy of exalting freedom while ignoring obligation,
Mankind has done irreparable damage to itself, a reality we pay for, each and
every day of our existence, which we have shortened by this choice!

[roamer_1]

-------------------------
To your great credit, you linked Rights & Responsibilities, a core theme of Natural Law,
which guided Man from Eden till the Enlightenment, spanning multi-millennia.
Tragically, by embracing the heresy of exalting freedom while ignoring obligation,
Mankind has done irreparable damage to itself, a reality we pay for, each and
every day of our existence, which we have shortened by this choice!

Exactly so...
Liberty has responsibilities.
Freedom has consequences.

[Bigun]

Individual liberty and personal responsibility are inextricably linked together. You simply cannot have one without accepting the other.