Author Topic: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement  (Read 13709 times)

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Offline Mesaclone

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David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« on: June 06, 2021, 10:59:27 AM »
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/periodic-table-new-american-right-david-marcus

Though I can't say I agree with Marcus on all points...he makes a powerful case and on the whole is correct in his description of how conservatives got to where we are today as a movement. Also, here's some great quotes from the article itself to give you the tone of its argument:

"Put simply, conservative voters will not go back to a GOP that offers only -- being a little better than Democrats -- as its claim to power."

"The time for conservative deciding has passed. The decision has been made and the American conservative movement is now a populist, nationalist, Reform Party minded body. It matters very little if our corporate liberal media chooses to accept this. It is true."

"The political figures that truly listen to rather than lecture conservative voters are the ones who will reap electoral rewards from today’s American conservatives."

"As was shown above, Trump’s political philosophy, which the New Right embraces did not emerge with him. It grew out of decades of struggle within the conservative movement, the Republican Party, and yes, the Reform Party. Trump grabbed the reins of the horse, but he didn’t open the barn door, the people did that as they always do."


And finally: "...that having been said there are political figures today ready to assume Trump’s mantle, and they are surely endowed with a brighter future than those longing for the country club and the Chamber of Commerce. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas; Sen. Josh Hawley, R-Mo., South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem, even Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., all offer some vision of the New Right and stand poised to be the leaders of this movement in the halls of power."
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Offline christian

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2021, 12:41:22 PM »
Being a Trump denier makes it all seem questionable !  Time WILL tell!  An end run tactic?

Online Absalom

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2021, 01:59:12 PM »
Nothing but Horse Manure from Marcus and his fellow travelers.
What's the very first topic they yap about???
Why politics, of course, their eternal fantasy, yet why???
Because it's intimate w/their subconscious yearnings; ATTENTION & POWER!!!
The giants of the past, whose massive height permits us to see as far as we do, understood Creation embedded Mankind w/a Psyche/Soul which is directed by Natural Law derivative of Human Nature.
The very essence of Conservatism involves eternal core Principles having absolutely nothing to do w/political malarkey, the relenthless obsession of those desperate for attention.

 

Online roamer_1

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2021, 02:06:25 PM »
Utter nonsense.

Conservatives were never 'Chamber of Commerce'. nor 'country club'.

And Conservatism by its nature cannot be 'populist', and is only incidentally 'nationalist'

Tumpism is no more conservative than any other hyphenated 'conservatism' that came before.

Online Absalom

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2021, 02:54:09 PM »
Utter nonsense.
Conservatives were never 'Chamber of Commerce'. nor 'country club'.
And Conservatism by its nature cannot be 'populist', and is only incidentally 'nationalist'
Trumpism is no more conservative than any other hyphenated 'conservatism' that came before.
-------------------
Roamer, indeed.
Sadly we are where we are because so many are stuck on stupid!

Online roamer_1

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2021, 05:04:56 PM »
-------------------
Roamer, indeed.
Sadly we are where we are because so many are stuck on stupid!

YUP

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2021, 06:44:56 PM »
-------------------
Roamer, indeed.
Sadly we are where we are because so many are stuck on stupid!

Our resident "stuck in the old Bush country club paradigm" duo...some will never reconcile themselves to the more blue collar, populist conservatism. That's great for easy times but we're essentially in a cultural war...we don't need George Will's and other bowtied conservative intellectuals...we need leaders who will draw a line in the sand and fight for conservative values, originalist judges, and America First. Guys like Desantis...Rand Paul...Hawley and Cotton...I think most of us are done with the old school "compromisers". You guys hate Trump...I get it...but all Trump really is in policy terms...is Reagan with a dose of overblown ego. Not my favorite quality in a man either, but in our current crisis...an overzealous ego in the face of merciless personal smear and assault is no vice.

I await your "bah-humbugs".
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Online roamer_1

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2021, 07:03:06 PM »
Our resident "stuck in the old Bush country club paradigm" duo...

Yeah, you keep trying to rub RINOs off on me. I ain't never backed the RINOs, and I consider the Moderate Wing of the Republican party - You know, the 'Bush country club' to be every bit the enemy that the democrats are.

Quote
[...]some will never reconcile themselves to the more blue collar, populist conservatism.

Ain't nobody here more blue collar than me. So that hyphenation doesn't work a lick. And populism is not conservatism, and never can be. In fact, populism is every bit as daft and unprincipled as the liberalism you claim to detest.

Quote
That's great for easy times but we're essentially in a cultural war...we don't need George Will's and other bowtied conservative intellectuals...we need leaders who will draw a line in the sand and fight for conservative values, originalist judges, and America First. Guys like Desantis...Rand Paul...Hawley and Cotton...I think most of us are done with the old school "compromisers". You guys hate Trump...I get it...but all Trump really is in policy terms...is Reagan with a dose of overblown ego. Not my favorite quality in a man either, but in our current crisis...an overzealous ego in the face of merciless personal smear and assault is no vice.

I await your "bah-humbugs".

Right. ALWAYS a reason to put aside the very principles you claim to stand upon.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 07:05:30 PM by roamer_1 »

Offline Killer Clouds

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2021, 07:17:19 PM »
Yeah, you keep trying to rub RINOs off on me. I ain't never backed the RINOs, and I consider the Moderate Wing of the Republican party - You know, the 'Bush country club' to be every bit the enemy that the democrats are.

Ain't nobody here more blue collar than me. So that hyphenation doesn't work a lick. And populism is not conservatism, and never can be. In fact, populism is every bit as daft and unprincipled as the liberalism you claim to detest.

Right. ALWAYS a reason to put aside the very principles you claim to stand upon.
The only thing worse than lying to others is lying to yourself. You're a very good liar.

Online roamer_1

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2021, 07:19:07 PM »
The only thing worse than lying to others is lying to yourself. You're a very good liar.

GFY

Offline Killer Clouds

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2021, 07:23:18 PM »
GFY
You do everytime you post. The truth will set you free, liar.

Online roamer_1

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2021, 07:28:42 PM »
You do everytime you post. The truth will set you free, liar.

Ain't lied at all. Why don't you try to defend your prince instead of throwing meaningless epithets.
I know why. Because you can't

At least @Mesaclone tries... You just throw sh*t.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2021, 08:28:44 PM »
Ain't lied at all. Why don't you try to defend your prince instead of throwing meaningless epithets.
I know why. Because you can't

At least @Mesaclone tries... You just throw sh*t.

I can't deny that you are an honest man. Hyperbolic...but honest. Curmudgeony. Grouchy. Scroogy. But honest =)

Read the article if you haven't...it makes clear that Trump is not the source of the MAGA movement, he is a byproduct. An important one, but like many others (Desantis, Noem, Paul, Cotton, Hawley, etcetera) he is riding the wave of populist conservatism....a term that simply means conservatism reaching out to motivate the middle class to engage in the political process. Not sure why you'd think that counter to conservatism...populism is a method that builds enthusiasm for a cause by speaking truth (with a bit of charisma if possible) to folks. It is not itself a philosophy. In this case, it is a method used to build support and enthusiasm for conservatism. There's just no way that should be seen as a bad thing. You seem to be applying anachronistic view of populism as a "befuddle the dumb masses with snake oil" sort of magic trick....that is not what we are seeing here with the MAGA movement.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 08:32:43 PM by Mesaclone »
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Online Absalom

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2021, 08:29:57 PM »
Our resident "stuck in the old Bush country club paradigm" duo...some will never reconcile themselves to the more blue collar, populist conservatism. That's great for easy times but we're essentially in a cultural war...we don't need George Will's and other bowtied conservative intellectuals...we need leaders who will draw a line in the sand and fight for conservative values, originalist judges, and America First. Guys like Desantis...Rand Paul...Hawley and Cotton...I think most of us are done with the old school "compromisers". You guys hate Trump...I get it...but all Trump really is in policy terms...is Reagan with a dose of overblown ego. Not my favorite quality in a man either, but in our current crisis...an overzealous ego in the face of merciless personal smear and assault is no vice.
I await your "bah-humbugs".
------------------------------
Mesaclone, since you're a smart lad, why are you auditioning for a clown award?
Conservatism was articulated by the Ancients, among them Plato, as  a body of enduring principles dealing w/human nature, involving attitudes, behaviors, impulses and sentiments across Mankind.
It had absolutely nothing to do w/either politics or religion, as it was birthed by the Natural Law;
the latter being Man's guide for thousands of years as the Scholastics, Locke, Hume, Burke
as well as Babbitt and Kirk, in our time asserted, to name but a handful.
The ideas and thoughts of these wise Men gave Conservatism integrity down thru history;
yet in our time it's morphed into an errand boy for politicians/politics, which in my judgment,
is its death sentence!!!


Offline Victoria33

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2021, 08:39:22 PM »
@Killer Clouds
@roamer_1

Killer, watch your language, especially with roamer; he is the buddy of most here, you are not.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2021, 08:39:33 PM »
------------------------------
Mesaclone, since you're a smart lad, why are you auditioning for a clown award?
Conservatism was articulated by the Ancients, among them Plato, as  a body of enduring principles dealing w/human nature, involving attitudes, behaviors, impulses and sentiments across Mankind.
It had absolutely nothing to do w/either politics or religion, as it was birthed by the Natural Law;
the latter being Man's guide for thousands of years as the Scholastics, Locke, Hume, Burke
as well as Babbitt and Kirk, in our time asserted, to name but a handful.
The ideas and thoughts of these wise Men gave Conservatism integrity down thru history;
yet in our time it's morphed into an errand boy for politicians/politics, which in my judgment,
is its death sentence!!!

Ah...reminds of the great painting by Raphael...you know...Aristotle and Plato walking side by side surrounded by the other greats. Natural law is of course the source of all as per Plato...but it is not disconnected from the religious and the political as you seem to suggest. If you are arguing that the philosophy of Plato is not intimately linked to all Western religious and moral thought...well...you need to go back and read the great works like Timaeus. Aristotle and his focus on facts and "what is" rather than what should be...you could maybe argue his philosophy is free of politics and belief...but even that's a reach. But you ARE right that Plato is the foundation of conservative thought...but arguing that it has "absolutely nothing to do with politics or religion" is ludicrous. Plato DEFINES the very meaning of politics and religion...Natural law is the source of philosophy but Plato did not deny its direct application to politics/religion. Rather, it was the pillar upon which his views on both was built.

Of course...not sure what you're trying to convey about THIS discussion...but its an interesting side discussion if nothing else.

BTW...a good reading suggestion for you...which I'm in the middle of as we speak. The Cave and the Light: Plato vs Aristotle and the Struggle for the Soul of Western Civilization..... by Arthur Herman. Knock your socks off quality read.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 08:46:52 PM by Mesaclone »
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Offline libertybele

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2021, 08:42:37 PM »
@Killer Clouds
@roamer_1

Killer, watch your language, especially with roamer; he is the buddy of most here, you are not.

 Exactly what I was thinking @Victoria33     The good doctor has spoken!    888high58888
           
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 08:43:31 PM by libertybele »
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Offline Victoria33

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2021, 08:48:58 PM »
Exactly what I was thinking @Victoria33     The good doctor has spoken!    888high58888

Let's see what happens to killer.
Love you libertybele, 44444heart

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2021, 08:52:37 PM »
@Killer Clouds

FYI

I know you are new here...One of the few rules we have here is we don't insult other members.

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Offline libertybele

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2021, 08:53:39 PM »
Let's see what happens to killer.
Love you libertybele, 44444heart

Love you my friend,   6666kiss

GOD Bless America, have mercy upon this country and stop the evil that has a stranglehold on our Republic from prevailing.

Online roamer_1

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2021, 08:56:59 PM »
I can't deny that you are an honest man. Hyperbolic...but honest. Curmudgeony. Grouchy. Scroogy. But honest =)

LOL! Fine.... All but the 'hyperbolic' thing. Would prefer 'emphatic', perhaps...

Quote
Read the article if you haven't...it makes clear that Trump is not the source of the MAGA movement, he is a byproduct. An important one, but like many others (Desantis, Noem, Paul, Cotton, Hawley, etcetera) he is riding the wave of populist conservatism....a term that simply means conservatism reaching out to motivate the middle class to engage in the political process. Not sure why you'd think that counter to conservatism...populism is a method that builds enthusiasm for a cause by speaking truth (with a bit of charisma if possible) to folks. It is not itself a philosophy. In this case, it is a method used to build support and enthusiasm for conservatism. There's just no way that should be seen as a bad thing. You seem to be applying anachronistic view of populism as a "befuddle the dumb masses with snake oil" sort of magic trick....that is not what we are seeing here with the MAGA movement.

Now, lets not go and hyphenate 'populist' while we're at it - You're confused enough.

Paul, Cotton, and Hawley, all three would have my vote. But not Tumpy. WHY? And there is nothing 'new' about their Conservatism. Their Conservatism is long studied and with every intent. And they've a record to prove it.

Populism necessarily emphasizes the prince, and not the principle. I don't care a whit for Cruz one way or the other, and I never did. I cared about what he stood upon... Which is what I am standing upon. Why has Cruz nearly lost me? Because he is no longer standing as he was. And Tumpy has never been there.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2021, 09:07:20 PM »
@Mesaclone

You said, "BTW...a good reading suggestion for you...which I'm in the middle of as we speak. The Cave and the Light: Plato vs Aristotle and the Struggle for the Soul of Western Civilization....."
___________________
Am very familiar with Plato's Cave.  I left the cave when I began to read at three years old, never went back to the cave.  What cave?  The cave we are in before we leave or stay.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2021, 09:10:02 PM »
LOL! Fine.... All but the 'hyperbolic' thing. Would prefer 'emphatic', perhaps...

Now, lets not go and hyphenate 'populist' while we're at it - You're confused enough.

Paul, Cotton, and Hawley, all three would have my vote. But not Tumpy. WHY? And there is nothing 'new' about their Conservatism. Their Conservatism is long studied and with every intent. And they've a record to prove it.

Populism necessarily emphasizes the prince, and not the principle. I don't care a whit for Cruz one way or the other, and I never did. I cared about what he stood upon... Which is what I am standing upon. Why has Cruz nearly lost me? Because he is no longer standing as he was. And Tumpy has never been there.

Your statement on populism would be true IF the enthusiasm was about the "man". Its not...the enthusiasm is about the MAGA movement and breaking away from the country club do-nothings. At long last. And honestly, Roamer, if Hawley suddenly air dropped into the Presidency, his policies and actions would be almost identical to those Trump has taken (and promises to take again). You are letting personal dislike for the man dictate your vote...reason would argue that Trump's agenda IS the same as the agenda of Desantis, Hawley, Cotton and such. There's just not an inch of daylight in there...the only real difference being that Trump generates one helluva lot more enthusiasm and activism from the Conservative base.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2021, 09:14:59 PM »
@Mesaclone

You said, "BTW...a good reading suggestion for you...which I'm in the middle of as we speak. The Cave and the Light: Plato vs Aristotle and the Struggle for the Soul of Western Civilization....."
___________________
Am very familiar with Plato's Cave.  I left the cave when I began to read at three years old, never went back to the cave.  What cave?  The cave we are in before we leave or stay.

Yes...but can you convince those still within to come into the light?  That's essentially the very difficult task of every conservative  leader. As in the allegory, the cave dwellers can become quite dangerous.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Online roamer_1

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Re: David Marcus defines the New Right conservative movement
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2021, 09:27:36 PM »
Your statement on populism would be true IF the enthusiasm was about the "man". Its not...the enthusiasm is about the MAGA movement and breaking away from the country club do-nothings. At long last. And honestly, Roamer, if Hawley suddenly air dropped into the Presidency, his policies and actions would be almost identical to those Trump has taken (and promises to take again). You are letting personal dislike for the man dictate your vote...reason would argue that Trump's agenda IS the same as the agenda of Desantis, Hawley, Cotton and such. There's just not an inch of daylight in there...the only real difference being that Trump generates one helluva lot more enthusiasm and activism from the Conservative base.

@Mesaclone

No, it really has little to do with my personal dislike of Tumpy. It has to do, almost exclusively with performance, past and present. I told you before, I vote record, not popularity, not promises from the stump. Not baby kissing and handshaking. None of that crap matters to me at all.

Record. Will he uphold the principles of the Conservative Coalition... That's it. Entirely.