Surprising number of EV owners switch back to gas power, study says

[Elderberry]

I see what you did there.

What? I can't have hopes and dreams?

[corbe]

   Until ACME gets involved, I'm unconvinced.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huf-7dZ8Rts

[Elderberry]

[BassWrangler]

What? I can't have hopes and dreams?

Well, it may have been in jest, but I still think this would be an improvement. The internal combustion engine is a Rube Goldberg contraption. It's parts wear out, it's heavy, and has poor efficiency. The electric motor is a beautifully simple device. That's the main benefit of the electric car. If they could ditch the lithium batteries and replace with a gas-powered fuel cell, that would provide us with a vehicle with all the benefits.

Of course, the climate alarmists wouldn't be happy, but who cares what they think.

[DB]

Well, it may have been in jest, but I still think this would be an improvement. The internal combustion engine is a Rube Goldberg contraption. It's parts wear out, it's heavy, and has poor efficiency. The electric motor is a beautifully simple device. That's the main benefit of the electric car. If they could ditch the lithium batteries and replace with a gas-powered fuel cell, that would provide us with a vehicle with all the benefits.

Of course, the climate alarmists wouldn't be happy, but who cares what they think.

And high torque at zero RPM. Don't need a clutch, torque converter or multiple gear ratios. The drive train is dramatically simpler. In time it will likely be a motor in the wheel hub with no other mechanical drive train at all.

[BassWrangler]

And high torque at zero RPM. Don't need a clutch, torque converter or multiple gear ratios. The drive train is dramatically simpler. In time it will likely be a motor in the wheel hub with no other mechanical drive train at all.

I always thought that Tesla was going to go with the motors in the wheel hubs - to give the ultimate in traction control. But it seems there's a lot of efficiency lost with that approach. My Model 3 is the "Dual Motor" variant, but the two motors are actually significantly different. One of them is the higher efficiency one that uses permanent magnets, and the other is something different. Apparently most of the time just the high efficiency one runs.

There's a lot of info online about the Tesla motors it if you're interested.

[Elderberry]

Tesla Model 3's motor - The Brilliant Engineering behind it

Lesics Dec 18, 2020

The engineers of Tesla motor's shocked everyone when they abandoned the versatile induction motor in Model 3 cars. They used a totally different motor called IPM-SynRM. Let's understand why the Tesla engineers made this crucial design change.

We thank EMWorks for their FEA support. To know more about this powerful electromagnetic simulation software checkout : https://www.emworks.com/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esUb7Zy5Oio

[BassWrangler]

Great video, @Elderberry . Thanks for posting that.

[Elderberry]

@BassWrangler        Check out our new Member, @jaymaron 's site:

http://www.jaymaron.com/vehicle.html

Electric vehicles
Dr. Jay Maron

Electric vehicles comprehensively outperform gasoline vehicles. They're more powerful, cheaper, simpler, quieter, and flexible. Gasoline vehicles come with baggage like gears, powertrains, combustion, flywheels, mufflers, etc., none of which are present in electric vehicles.



The challenge is range. Battery energy is easily enough to cross cities but not enough for long-distance freeway driving.

BatteryEnergy ∼ Range * Speed2 * DragArea

For a typical electric car driving at city speed,

Car speed          =  V                  = 20     meters/second
Air density        =  D                  =  1.22 kg/meter3
Air drag area      =  K                  =  1.5  meters2
Air drag force     =  F  =  ½ K D V2     =366    Newtons
Air drag power     =  P  =  ½ K D V3     = 7.3  kWatts
Battery energy     =  E  =  F X          =100    MJoules
Range              =  X  =  E/(½ K D V2) =272    km


An electric generator can extend range. Generators have poor power/mass but for ground vehicles, mass isn't a problem. If we equip electric vehicles with generators,
             Speed  Generator   Generator  Generator
              m/s   power (kW)  cost ($)   mass (kg)

Kick scooter   10       .25         25         1
Bike           15      1.0         100         5
Trike          20      4           400        20
Compact car    30     16          1600        80
Mid-sized car  30     25          2500       125

[BassWrangler]

@BassWrangler        Check out our new Member, @jaymaron 's site:

https://www.jaymaron.com/vehicle.html

Electric vehicles
Dr. Jay Maron

Electric vehicles comprehensively outperform gasoline vehicles. They're more powerful, cheaper, simpler, quieter, and flexible. Gasoline vehicles come with baggage like gears, powertrains, combustion, flywheels, mufflers, etc., none of which are present in electric vehicles.



The challenge is range. Battery energy is easily enough to cross cities but not enough for long-distance freeway driving.

BatteryEnergy ∼ Range * Speed2 * DragArea

For a typical electric car driving at city speed,

Car speed          =  V                  = 20     meters/second
Air density        =  D                  =  1.22 kg/meter3
Air drag area      =  K                  =  1.5  meters2
Air drag force     =  F  =  ½ K D V2     =366    Newtons
Air drag power     =  P  =  ½ K D V3     = 7.3  kWatts
Battery energy     =  E  =  F X          =100    MJoules
Range              =  X  =  E/(½ K D V2) =272    km


An electric generator can extend range. Generators have poor power/mass but for ground vehicles, mass isn't a problem. If we equip electric vehicles with generators,
             Speed  Generator   Generator  Generator
              m/s   power (kW)  cost ($)   mass (kg)

Kick scooter   10       .25         25         1
Bike           15      1.0         100         5
Trike          20      4           400        20
Compact car    30     16          1600        80
Mid-sized car  30     25          2500       125

Thanks, will check it out.

[Hoodat]

@BassWrangler        Check out our new Member, @jaymaron 's site:

https://www.jaymaron.com/vehicle.html

Electric vehicles
Dr. Jay Maron

Electric vehicles comprehensively outperform gasoline vehicles. They're more powerful, cheaper, simpler, quieter, and flexible. Gasoline vehicles come with baggage like gears, powertrains, combustion, flywheels, mufflers, etc., none of which are present in electric vehicles.

I love anyone who uses the metric system to explain physics, especially considering that the English unit for mass (slugs) is never used in any equations.

[BassWrangler]

I love anyone who uses the metric system to explain physics, especially considering that the English unit for mass (slugs) is never used in any equations.

I don't know anyone in science or engineering that uses the imperial system for their work. The metric system is pretty much ubiquitous, because it actually makes sense and doesn't seem like something invented on a dare.

[Hoodat]

Au contraire, mon frere.  Always dealing with BTUs, lb/ft³, hp, inH₂O, and bbls.  Not by choice though.

[BassWrangler]

Au contraire, mon frere.  Always dealing with BTUs, lb/ft³, hp, inH₂O, and bbls.  Not by choice though.

Is that the energy industry?

[Hoodat]

Is that the energy industry?

Oil, as well as refining and chemicals.  Process oriented.  Not design.

[DB]

I love anyone who uses the metric system to explain physics, especially considering that the English unit for mass (slugs) is never used in any equations.

About a year ago I finally moved to metric dimensions for HDI PCB layout and housing design. Prior everything I did was in inches/mils with the vast majority of component specifications being in millimeters and having to be converted. All the mechanical hardware (screws/washers/etc.) I use are also metric now with the exception of the customer mounting interfaces still being in inches and English (#6-32 for example) for mounting hole sizes.

[thackney]

I don't know anyone in science or engineering that uses the imperial system for their work. The metric system is pretty much ubiquitous, because it actually makes sense and doesn't seem like something invented on a dare.

Metric vs Imperial Units: How NASA lost a 327 Million Dollar Mission to Mars
https://everydayastronaut.com/mars-climate-orbiter/

[thackney]

I don't know anyone in science or engineering that uses the imperial system for their work. The metric system is pretty much ubiquitous, because it actually makes sense and doesn't seem like something invented on a dare.

All of our design drawings are dimensioning in imperial units.

[Lando Lincoln]

[BassWrangler]

Oil, as well as refining and chemicals.  Process oriented.  Not design.

OK, interesting, I didn't know that. I know some PCB designers and machinists work in mils too, so my comment was overly broad.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Why isn't time measure in metric? From what I figure the only thing that could not be in metric is days/year.

[corbe]

   Seconds, minutes and hours are based on the joints of the fingers of your hand~60/12 or so I've heard @Weird Tolkienish Figure

[Elderberry]

   Seconds, minutes and hours are based on the joints of the fingers of your hand~60/12 or so I've heard @Weird Tolkienish Figure

How 10 Fingers Became 12 Hours

episode number ED-191

https://www.earthdate.org/how-10-fingers-became-12-hours

We have 10 fingers, so we’ve based our common counting systems on 10. Why then, do we divide the day into 12 hours and the hour into 60 minutes?

To understand, we need to go back 3000 years. Babylonians also used their hands to count, but wanting to count higher than 10, they devised a different system.

They used their thumb to count the three segments of their four fingers to get 12. They marked that 12 by raising a finger on the other hand. Twelve times five fingers is 60.

2500 years ago, when people started using sundials, it seemed only natural to divide the day in 12.

Egyptian astronomers then found 12 stars to mark the passing of time in the night sky, making a 24-hour cycle.

Early Greek mathematicians realized they could divide a circle into six equilateral triangles like a sliced pizza.

Around 2200 years ago, the first Greek astronomer to describe a round Earth wanted a system to navigate it. He took that 6-part circle and divided each part by 60 to get 360 degrees.

Another Greek divided those degrees further, into 60 minute parts, and those into 60 secondary parts.

A few centuries later, these geographic minutes and seconds were applied to the 24-hour day.

But it would take another thousand years before we could accurately measure that second, which we’ll cover on another EarthDate.

[corbe]

   Thanks for that explanation @Elderberry I thought it went back to the Sumerians. 
   Our cars are small, not because we are poor (like me) but they fit on the same size roads the Romans used to invade everybody, I also heard.

[roamer_1]

How 10 Fingers Became 12 Hours

episode number ED-191

https://www.earthdate.org/how-10-fingers-became-12-hours

We have 10 fingers, so we’ve based our common counting systems on 10. Why then, do we divide the day into 12 hours and the hour into 60 minutes?

To understand, we need to go back 3000 years. Babylonians also used their hands to count, but wanting to count higher than 10, they devised a different system.

They used their thumb to count the three segments of their four fingers to get 12. They marked that 12 by raising a finger on the other hand. Twelve times five fingers is 60.

2500 years ago, when people started using sundials, it seemed only natural to divide the day in 12.

Egyptian astronomers then found 12 stars to mark the passing of time in the night sky, making a 24-hour cycle.

Early Greek mathematicians realized they could divide a circle into six equilateral triangles like a sliced pizza.

Around 2200 years ago, the first Greek astronomer to describe a round Earth wanted a system to navigate it. He took that 6-part circle and divided each part by 60 to get 360 degrees.

Another Greek divided those degrees further, into 60 minute parts, and those into 60 secondary parts.

A few centuries later, these geographic minutes and seconds were applied to the 24-hour day.

But it would take another thousand years before we could accurately measure that second, which we’ll cover on another EarthDate.

I don't know all that, but your hand without the thumb, held to the sky is about an hour. So if you know the sun came up around 8am and you are 3 hands above the horizon, that is around 11am, and four hands will get you straight up which would be noon... Consequently, each finger is around a quarter hour...