Surprising number of EV owners switch back to gas power, study says

[roamer_1]

It's the same in lots of places but still if someone wants one and can afford it let them have it.

That's right. Just saying they ain't gonna catch on here yet.

[Bigun]

That's right. Just saying they ain't gonna catch on here yet.

In these parts, owning one would be like owning Yugo X 1000.

[roamer_1]

In these parts, owning one would be like owning Yugo X 1000.

Yeah... Though Yoda pickups have finally got a foothold up in here, so anything is possible, I guess 

[corbe]

   Get one with the additional rear luggage rack so you can carry the fuel necessary to run the generator all night.

[BassWrangler]

That's right. Just saying they ain't gonna catch on here yet.

Agreed, I think we're still many years from that. ANd I think the energy storage technology needs to improve. I firmly believe they will, eventually, supplant ICE vehicles, and people who say they are inferior are for the most part people who have never owned one and don't understand.

Once you own an electric car, you really don't want to go back. The way they drive is better - the linear acceleration, the one pedal driving. They have almost zero maintenance. Not having to stop for gas - ever - is addictive. But IMHO, right now, they are only practical for people that use them to commute back and forth to work and who don't live 100+ miles from their job, and can afford to also have access to a gasoline powered car for longer trips. Yes, if you have a Tesla, you can use their SuperCharger network to take longer trips, but you can't (for example) take one out into an area without access to a supercharger (like for example, I took a trip to Western Washington to go shooting, and the Tesla was totally not an option for that).

[roamer_1]

Agreed, I think we're still many years from that. ANd I think the energy storage technology needs to improve. I firmly believe they will, eventually, supplant ICE vehicles, and people who say they are inferior are for the most part people who have never owned one and don't understand.

Once you own an electric car, you really don't want to go back. The way they drive is better - the linear acceleration, the one pedal driving. They have almost zero maintenance. Not having to stop for gas - ever - is addictive. But IMHO, right now, they are only practical for people that use them to commute back and forth to work and who don't live 100+ miles from their job, and can afford to also have access to a gasoline powered car for longer trips. Yes, if you have a Tesla, you can use their SuperCharger network to take longer trips, but you can't (for example) take one out into an area without access to a supercharger (like for example, I took a trip to Western Washington to go shooting, and the Tesla was totally not an option for that).

Believe it or not, I know where you are coming from. I worked on a race rail that was electrically powered, and while I was not the driver (I did drive it a bit) I know the power and the immediacy of that power that is present in an electric motor. Hard to beat, although steam may come close.

But It is a long, long way from overcoming gas and diesel... just like it is hard put to overcome natural gas, albeit that electric heat is more ubiquitous than I would have predicted.

I think it will become more commonplace in city centers (because that is where they work, and where charging is not a problem), but rural areas, even where it is flat... I just don't see it supplanting anything... Probably ever. Rural families drive suburbans and those suburbans are full. That is a whole nother thing from the little cars (passenger wise) in the cities. And pickups - you'll play hell getting rid of pickups and what they do in rural areas. I think the payloads, both in freight and passengers are well beyond the reach of electric stuff.

Hybrids work here for small cars, and I can see that growing if they can be made powerful enough and able to function  in cold weather, will they continue here? Yeah. And electric cars in town? Maybe. Plenty of folks never get far from town. But the blood meat and bone of it is going to be diesel, with gas a close second for the foreseeable future.

[BassWrangler]

Believe it or not, I know where you are coming from. I worked on a race rail that was electrically powered, and while I was not the driver (I did drive it a bit) I know the power and the immediacy of that power that is present in an electric motor. Hard to beat, although steam may come close.

But It is a long, long way from overcoming gas and diesel... just like it is hard put to overcome natural gas, albeit that electric heat is more ubiquitous than I would have predicted.

I think it will become more commonplace in city centers (because that is where they work, and where charging is not a problem), but rural areas, even where it is flat... I just don't see it supplanting anything... Probably ever. Rural families drive suburbans and those suburbans are full. That is a whole nother thing from the little cars (passenger wise) in the cities. And pickups - you'll play hell getting rid of pickups and what they do in rural areas. I think the payloads, both in freight and passengers are well beyond the reach of electric stuff.

Hybrids work here for small cars, and I can see that growing if they can be made powerful enough and able to function  in cold weather, will they continue here? Yeah. And electric cars in town? Maybe. Plenty of folks never get far from town. But the blood meat and bone of it is going to be diesel, with gas a close second for the foreseeable future.

What you said aligns with what I believe as well. I love automobiles of all kinds. But I think that the internal combustion engine is an archaic technology that has outlived its time. It's notable that big car buffs like the Top Gear guys (James May, Richard Hammond), Jay Leno - love electric cars. Many here seem to think they are like hybrids - underpowered vehicles for eco-weenies. They are totally missing it.

Regarding hybrids, I have never been a fan. It combines the worst attributes of both types of vehicles.

[Hoodat]

The primary benefit for EVs is regenerative braking.  This helps city drivers, but does nothing for rural drivers.  In the city, mileage efficiency is reduced because of all the start/stop motion.  With regenerative breaking, some of this energy can be recaptured.

Of course it means your vehicle will have to have the battery capacity to store that recaptured energy.

[catfish1957]

Smart thing to do, is not getting snookered into this in the first place

[thackney]

The primary benefit for EVs is regenerative braking.  This helps city drivers, but does nothing for rural drivers.  In the city, mileage efficiency is reduced because of all the start/stop motion.  With regenerative breaking, some of this energy can be recaptured.

Of course it means your vehicle will have to have the battery capacity to store that recaptured energy.

If it is all electric, the battery capacity is always there to recapture energy through braking.  Any kinetic energy you capture through braking was already drawn out of the battery to reach the speed before braking.

- - - - -

edit:  If started from the top of a tall hill, you might get more kinetic energy than capacity, but only if you recharged the battery while on top of the hill.

[Ghost Bear]

Key words being "as far as I can tell". Drive one for a month and get back to me.

No thanks. If you can't distill the advantages down into a few sentences, they probably aren't very tangible.

[Ghost Bear]

Not needing to worry about the oil is one advantage i'd give them. Plus less maintenance need in general.

That is an advantage. I'm not sure if it is enough of an advantage to overcome the lack of infrastructure currently, but in the future if the infrastructure is built up it could become a reason to adopt electric vehicles.

[roamer_1]

What you said aligns with what I believe as well. I love automobiles of all kinds. But I think that the internal combustion engine is an archaic technology that has outlived its time. It's notable that big car buffs like the Top Gear guys (James May, Richard Hammond), Jay Leno - love electric cars. Many here seem to think they are like hybrids - underpowered vehicles for eco-weenies. They are totally missing it.

Crazy power, crazy fast. The problem is the long extension cord.
BUT, if you'd have told me my beloved blip gun - the 3/8 drive pneumatic impact wrench that has been so well used all my life, that it has actually conformed to my hand - If you'd have told me that I would prefer a batt operated impact gun over it, I would have laughed in your face.

But it turns out to be true. And the same in construction. I am FAR more likely to pick up my Ryobi stuff than my corded stuff. No cords is awesome. Oddly enough, the one that has not been supplanted is my little Rodac 1/4"hex pneumatic screw driver, that hangs forever on it's coily hose above my bench. It still works better than the electrics for bench work. Go figger.

And the same with my current project - This subject, again in minimum. I am building an electric trike, built on a Schwinn Meridian platform, and I mean to tell you, I am seriously impressed. I am gonna make me one. That thing can go the mile into town, and all over town, and back again, on a single charge. They preach 15-20 miles, but I know for sure it will go 10 miles with no trouble, and it is a pleasant ride. Not a barn burner by any means, but comparatively quiet and calm. Really a good time. That's another one I would have laughed at. Me on an old-lady trike. And it is STILL laughable,were it not for the electronics.

So yeah, it's coming on and improving. Even the solar project I am doing would not have been possible for me even 5 years ago.
 

Regarding hybrids, I have never been a fan. It combines the worst attributes of both types of vehicles.

Yeah, I am not impressed. But they are better than electric here, for the winters.

[Hoodat]

If it is all electric, the battery capacity is always there to recapture energy through braking.  Any kinetic energy you capture through braking was already drawn out of the battery to reach the speed before braking.

- - - - -

edit:  If started from the top of a tall hill, you might get more kinetic energy than capacity, but only if you recharged the battery while on top of the hill.

I was thinking more along the lines of a fuel cell car.  Definitely an EV, but one that doesn't require a traditional electric battery.

Also, brakes on wheels are not tied to the drive shaft.  Yes, coasting down a hill will put drive shaft energy back into the motor.  But stopping for a stop sign does not.  That energy is traditionally lost via heat though the rotors and pads.

[Fishrrman]

Hoodat wrote:
"Also, brakes on wheels are not tied to the drive shaft.  Yes, coasting down a hill will put drive shaft energy back into the motor.  But stopping for a stop sign does not."

On a railroad locomotive, the dynamic/regenerative brakes can't actually stop the train, although they can slow it down to, say, 5mph. The engineer still needs to "use the air brakes" to make the actual stop.

Below 5mph or so the dynamic/regenerated current begins to fade away, no longer effective against the movement/mass of the train.

I would reckon the same principles apply to rubber-tied vehicles, as well.

[BassWrangler]

Crazy power, crazy fast. The problem is the long extension cord.
BUT, if you'd have told me my beloved blip gun - the 3/8 drive pneumatic impact wrench that has been so well used all my life, that it has actually conformed to my hand - If you'd have told me that I would prefer a batt operated impact gun over it, I would have laughed in your face.

But it turns out to be true. And the same in construction. I am FAR more likely to pick up my Ryobi stuff than my corded stuff. No cords is awesome. Oddly enough, the one that has not been supplanted is my little Rodac 1/4"hex pneumatic screw driver, that hangs forever on it's coily hose above my bench. It still works better than the electrics for bench work. Go figger.

And the same with my current project - This subject, again in minimum. I am building an electric trike, built on a Schwinn Meridian platform, and I mean to tell you, I am seriously impressed. I am gonna make me one. That thing can go the mile into town, and all over town, and back again, on a single charge. They preach 15-20 miles, but I know for sure it will go 10 miles with no trouble, and it is a pleasant ride. Not a barn burner by any means, but comparatively quiet and calm. Really a good time. That's another one I would have laughed at. Me on an old-lady trike. And it is STILL laughable,were it not for the electronics.

So yeah, it's coming on and improving. Even the solar project I am doing would not have been possible for me even 5 years ago.
 
Yeah, I am not impressed. But they are better than electric here, for the winters.

That sounds like a fun project. Watch out for the other drives - it's worse than a motorcycle in terms of the attention drivers pay to you (and I am a motorcycle rider - not knocking the idea).

[Elderberry]

Crazy power, crazy fast. The problem is the long extension cord.
BUT, if you'd have told me my beloved blip gun - the 3/8 drive pneumatic impact wrench that has been so well used all my life, that it has actually conformed to my hand - If you'd have told me that I would prefer a batt operated impact gun over it, I would have laughed in your face.

But it turns out to be true. And the same in construction. I am FAR more likely to pick up my Ryobi stuff than my corded stuff. No cords is awesome. Oddly enough, the one that has not been supplanted is my little Rodac 1/4"hex pneumatic screw driver, that hangs forever on it's coily hose above my bench. It still works better than the electrics for bench work. Go figger.

And the same with my current project - This subject, again in minimum. I am building an electric trike, built on a Schwinn Meridian platform, and I mean to tell you, I am seriously impressed. I am gonna make me one. That thing can go the mile into town, and all over town, and back again, on a single charge. They preach 15-20 miles, but I know for sure it will go 10 miles with no trouble, and it is a pleasant ride. Not a barn burner by any means, but comparatively quiet and calm. Really a good time. That's another one I would have laughed at. Me on an old-lady trike. And it is STILL laughable,were it not for the electronics.

So yeah, it's coming on and improving. Even the solar project I am doing would not have been possible for me even 5 years ago.
 
Yeah, I am not impressed. But they are better than electric here, for the winters.

Until recently I have been using mostly pneumatic tools. The larger industrial tools are dirt cheap used, because most people don't have the CFM to drive them. My compressor will put out 25CFM all day long. And I'm only running it a half power. It's nice having 3phase. My favorite tool though is a Jet 1/4" die grinder that must be 30 yrs old now and just refuses to die. Over the years I could pick up as many used cordless tools as I wanted free,  just with no batteries. Most constriction workers would buy new tools instead of ever getting a new battery. So I'd convert them back to corded to run off of gel cells. My son gave my a cordless drill last year, and I use it a lot. If I need power though, I go back to pneumatic. Many years ago,(25?) I built my son an off road gokart. For a motor I used a GM generator. Worked good. I am also powering my Mill/Drill with another GM generator.  I started building an electric off road hill climbing minibike. Another of my projects I need to get back to.

[roamer_1]

Until recently I have been using mostly pneumatic tools. The larger industrial tools are dirt cheap used, because most people don't have the CFM to drive them. My compressor will put out 25CFM all day long. And I'm only running it a half power. It's nice having 3phase. My favorite tool though is a Jet 1/4" die grinder that must be 30 yrs old now and just refuses to die. Over the years I could pick up as many used cordless tools as I wanted free,  just with no batteries. Most constriction workers would buy new tools instead of ever getting a new battery. So I'd convert them back to corded to run off of gel cells. My son gave my a cordless drill last year, and I use it a lot. If I need power though, I go back to pneumatic. Many years ago,(25?) I built my son an off road gokart. For a motor I used a GM generator. Worked good. I am also powering my Mill/Drill with another GM generator.  I started building an electric off road hill climbing minibike. Another of my projects I need to get back to.

Oh how the mighty have fallen!! I used to have a 3phase compressor at my old shop. I used to have a lot of things at my old shop... Actually, I STILL have a lot of things, but they are all tightly wedged (I mean tetris, man) into about 3/4ths of a 12x18 shed, floor to ceiling... I have one short wall, with my little tool box, my bench, and my old jobsite compressor and a wee aisle to get  at em. I had figured to put up a 25x40 with my pooter lab off one side in a leanto, and my carpentry stuff on the other side... But I flat ran out of fun tickets just getting the house done. Another 20k would have had it dried in with the lab done... But, spilt milk. 

SO right now I am stuck with 1/2"  and under impact (I have up to 1" drive), and no die grinders, DAs or airboards. I did haul out my air hammer the other day to try to cut the top out of a 55 for a burn barrel, but that little 30 gallon compressor couldn't keep up. Almost, but not really. No air drills either.

Oddly enough, the top came off that 55 using my batt operated sawzall.

Pneumatics have always been cheap. if you watch for em, you can get a bucketful for about nothing, 'broken'... Pump a little carb cleaner through em and a bit of tranny fluid, and they usually come right to life again. Just plugged up. Hardly ever need to crack them open. anything auto-oiler wll plug up like that.

But yeah. battery tools have fairly supplanted pneumatics. Kinda. through 3/8ths mostly. Hardball 1/2" I will have to haul out the air. It is still more powerful. Just not as convenient.

Same in construction. piddly work (which is most of it) the batt powered stuff just rules. But if I had to say, screw off a drywall job or a deck, the corded drill is coming out for sure.

Projects, right? I have about 20 right now that got past 'fixin to'... and partly to 'round tuit'. 
They tell me the number 1 pile is always bigger than the finished product.

[DB]

Agreed, I think we're still many years from that. ANd I think the energy storage technology needs to improve. I firmly believe they will, eventually, supplant ICE vehicles, and people who say they are inferior are for the most part people who have never owned one and don't understand.

Once you own an electric car, you really don't want to go back. The way they drive is better - the linear acceleration, the one pedal driving. They have almost zero maintenance. Not having to stop for gas - ever - is addictive. But IMHO, right now, they are only practical for people that use them to commute back and forth to work and who don't live 100+ miles from their job, and can afford to also have access to a gasoline powered car for longer trips. Yes, if you have a Tesla, you can use their SuperCharger network to take longer trips, but you can't (for example) take one out into an area without access to a supercharger (like for example, I took a trip to Western Washington to go shooting, and the Tesla was totally not an option for that).

It all comes down to battery technology. Electric cars are far simpler mechanically and less expensive to produce - excluding the battery... Eventually that problem will be solved. There's a lot resources working on that problem.

[BassWrangler]

It all comes down to battery technology. Electric cars are far simpler mechanically and less expensive to produce - excluding the battery... Eventually that problem will be solved. There's a lot resources working on that problem.

I agree, it will be solved one day.

[thackney]

I agree, it will be solved one day.

Agreed, efficient, economic energy storage is the brass ring many industries are reaching to grab.

[roamer_1]

Agreed, efficient, economic energy storage is the brass ring many industries are reaching to grab.

Ever elusive according to thermodynamics. 

[Elderberry]

I was hoping they would develop a liquid fuel cell that would replace batteries in vehicles.

[thackney]

I was hoping they would develop a liquid fuel cell that would replace batteries in vehicles.

Gasoline Fuel Cell Would Boost Electric Car Range
https://www.technologyreview.com/2011/12/02/86731/gasoline-fuel-cell-would-boost-electric-car-range/

[Hoodat]

I was hoping they would develop a liquid fuel cell that would replace batteries in vehicles.

I see what you did there.