Author Topic: Federal Government Warns Americans Not to Fill Plastic Bags with Gas During Fuel Shortage  (Read 3086 times)

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Online roamer_1

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I was looking at a used chemical tote, but I will look for fuel rating.

It is kinda spooky, but only temp storage.  I would fill half full for a possible hurricane and empty back out when passed.  I would not keep storage more than a month I think.

I get it. I think I would prefer 55 gal drums. I know those work. But then, I am a duffer, and never got around to trusting plastics generally.  :shrug:

Offline Wingnut

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Okay, real question now.

Any concerns about using caged IBC totes for short term gasoline storage.  30 days max.



Never mind the looks I will get at the gas station.

SAw it today



And the threre was this rocket scientist...



It seems Lowes and Home Despot are out of those stupid new Gas jugs
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Offline DCPatriot

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If I were even middle-aged and owned a single family dwelling on a couple of acres, I would immediately purchase and construct an underground tank commonly used at the corner gas station.   How many thousand gallons do they hold??

Cause fool me once, shame on you.  Not gonna fool me twice.   :laugh:
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Offline thackney

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Yeah - I dunno what they are made of... it's got that greasy feel of ABS and they cut (gas jugs v tote) about the same... But that's all I got - they 'feel' the same. In a pinch I would take the bet. As a transfer I would take the bet.

And another thing, I KNOW there are IBC totes rated for oil and gas. They exist. Whether that is the same material - just poured thicker for puncture resistance - or if it is different, I don't know.

Most plastic drums are made from high-density polyethylene (HDPE). Containers such as gas cans are often made from HDPE, so it’s easy to get the impression that it’s a good material to store gasoline in. However, when stored for prolonged periods in HDPE, the gasoline will begin to permeate and break down the plastic. This can cause dangerous leaks and ruin your fuel.

https://www.airseacontainers.com/blog/can-you-store-fuel-in-a-plastic-drum/#:~:text=Containers%20such%20as%20gas%20cans,leaks%20and%20ruin%20your%20fuel.

Not sure what they mean by prolonged periods.  But it sure looks like normal plastic cans are made from HDPE.

https://www.absorbentsonline.com/plastic-fuel-containers.htm

Totes are also made with it.  The internal 275 gallon IBC liner has been blow-mold manufactured from virgin high-density polyethylene (HDPE).

https://www.ibctanks.com/275gallon-reconditioned

I'm think a probably maybe here.  Nice to have ~100 gallon in a single container set up to use the forks on the tractor loader.
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Online roamer_1

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Not sure what they mean by prolonged periods.  But it sure looks like normal plastic cans are made from HDPE.


I would add poly water tanks used for transportation too. They all seem to be the same stuff.

Quote
I'm think a probably maybe here.  Nice to have ~100 gallon in a single container set up to use the forks on the tractor loader.

Yep. I see it... Though 4 55s fit on a pallet too - and transfer pumps and whatnot are made for em. In fact, if all you are looking for is 100 gallons, there are plenty of transfer tanks made for gas and diesel that fit across the front of a pickup bed... Whether the 'L' shaped ones built around a toolbox, or without the toolbox. Them will be 4 ft across to fit between the wheel wells, will be made for standard transfer pumps, and the whole 9 yards. I got one in the back of the truck right now. Put that on a wheeled pallet and you're golden.

Offline corbe

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If I were even middle-aged and owned a single family dwelling on a couple of acres, I would immediately purchase and construct an underground tank commonly used at the corner gas station.   How many thousand gallons do they hold??

Cause fool me once, shame on you.  Not gonna fool me twice.   :laugh:

   Didn't John Denver get Slammed for this during the 73 embargo?
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Offline Wingnut

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   Didn't John Denver get Slammed for this during the 73 embargo?

Nah, that happened when he augured in his plane.
I am just a Technicolor Dream Cat riding this kaleidoscope of life.

Online roamer_1

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If I were even middle-aged and owned a single family dwelling on a couple of acres, I would immediately purchase and construct an underground tank commonly used at the corner gas station.   How many thousand gallons do they hold??

Cause fool me once, shame on you.  Not gonna fool me twice.   :laugh:

Ours is up on stilts, but yeah. Most country folks keep it around. Diesel more than gas anymore - The additives in gas make it tough to store for long.  I know we generally don't fill ours all the way - maybe half at a time, because even premium doesn't last more than a few months unless it is agitated.

We are kinda heading toward all diesel for that reason.

Offline Fishrrman

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The images above remind me of those who poke holes in gasoline pipelines in Nigeria and then try to catch the runoff.

Natural selection at work right before our eyes.

Offline Elderberry

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Properties of Gasoline Stored in Various Containers

https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/10/9/1307

Quote

 3.1. Variation of Fuel Quality Depending on Storage Containers’ Type
With regard to the fuel properties of the gasoline for automobiles depending on the storage containers in the storage period, Figure 1 shows the variation of the research octane number (RON), which is the most important indicator affecting the automobile’s performance. The octane number is closely related to the molecular structures of various hydrocarbons in gasoline for automobiles: the octane number is dependent on the length and the degree of branching of carbon chains in hydrocarbons.



As shown in Figure 1, the RON for the gasoline in automobiles depending on the storage period only satisfied the specification of quality standards, as shown in Table 2, in the CAN and the PET storage containers. CAN and PET containers have better sealing systems than other containers. The octane number was decreased from the initial value by 4.0 to 18.5 for the gasoline in the PE storage containers stored indoors and outdoors, respectively. In particular, the octane number was decreased by a maximum of 18.5 in gasoline stored outdoors in the PE storage container. While the octane number was decreased by 0.2 to 0.6 in the steel CAN and the PET storage containers, respectively, the research octane number still satisfied the specification of quality standards as shown in Table 2.



Offline GrouchoTex

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Nah, that happened when he augured in his plane.
@corbe
@Wingnut
I think you are both right.

Offline Bigun

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Okay, real question now.

Any concerns about using caged IBC totes for short term gasoline storage.  30 days max.



Never mind the looks I will get at the gas station.

Since most gas tanks now are made of the same stuff that tote is (HDPE), I would have no concern at all other than about the elastomers in that plastic ball valve at the bottom of the tote.  @thackney

Especially if you added a bottle of this first  https://www.amazon.com/Star-Tron-Enzyme-Fuel-Treatment/dp/B00D3IEIFO/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3J09O8MYV2KUZ&dchild=1&keywords=gas+stabilizer&qid=1620856952&sprefix=Gas+stab%2Caps%2C220&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVE80RTRXTEdCR0Q3JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjM1MTAzMks1Ulk3MEFDSE84SSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODcyNjkyM0M0SUNWSkdKTzM5QiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Best stuff I've ever found.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 10:06:56 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline GtHawk

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Nah, that happened when he augured in his plane.
I heard he made a big splash with it.

Offline DCPatriot

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Ours is up on stilts, but yeah. Most country folks keep it around. Diesel more than gas anymore - The additives in gas make it tough to store for long.  I know we generally don't fill ours all the way - maybe half at a time, because even premium doesn't last more than a few months unless it is agitated.

We are kinda heading toward all diesel for that reason.

@roamer_1

??  I had no idea that 'sealed' stagnant gasoline degrades by external forces.

BTW...even though I've owned BMW M5 and M3 sports cars as well as Stingray corvettes back in the 60's, the most dependable vehicle I've ever owned was a 2012 VW Jetta Sport Wagen (sic) Turbo Diesel.

Put 225K miles on it with only oil and tire changes and a pair of brake shoes.
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Offline Elderberry

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Okay, real question now.

Any concerns about using caged IBC totes for short term gasoline storage.  30 days max.

Never mind the looks I will get at the gas station.

Keep it out of the sun. From the table I posted from that gasoline storage study, it looks like 93 Octane gas could be down to 84 octane after 30 days in the sun stored in PE. If you filled it with Regular, it would even be lower.

Online roamer_1

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??  I had no idea that 'sealed' stagnant gasoline degrades by external forces.

@DCPatriot
Yeah... It will not last long. Premium non-ethanol better than most - we use Conoco/Sinclair Premium here. It won't make the winter, for sure. You can use Stabil, or some other stabilizer, which does help. And if you were talking about 5 gallons, you could probably still burn it after 4 to 6 months... but 300 gallons... You  get this gank on the bottom of the tank... When you first see that, you can cycle the pump back up into the tank to agitate it, and you'll get along a bit further, but you better start burning it up and get some fresh in there soon.

Quote
BTW...even though I've owned BMW M5 and M3 sports cars as well as Stingray corvettes back in the 60's, the most dependable vehicle I've ever owned was a 2012 VW Jetta Sport Wagen (sic) Turbo Diesel.

Put 225K miles on it with only oil and tire changes and a pair of brake shoes.

Diesel and kerosene are the only fuels left that keep - and I think only red diesel keeps well anymore.  I think they are messing with the diesel for automotive purposes. What we have on hand is the non-taxed red diesel that you are not supposed to use in automotive.

I think that is on purpose, btw - I think they don't want folks to be able to store fuel.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 10:35:13 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline DB

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@DCPatriot
Yeah... It will not last long. Premium non-ethanol better than most - we use Conoco/Sinclair Premium here. It won't make the winter, for sure. You can use Stabil, or some other stabilizer, which does help. And if you were talking about 5 gallons, you could probably still burn it after 4 to 6 months... but 300 gallons... You  get this gank on the bottom of the tank... When you first see that, you can cycle the pump back up into the tank to agitate it, and you'll get along a bit further, but you better start burning it up and get some fresh in there soon.

Diesel and kerosene are the only fuels left that keep - and I think only red diesel keeps well anymore.  I think they are messing with the diesel for automotive purposes. What we have on hand is the non-taxed red diesel that you are not supposed to use in automotive.

I think that is on purpose, btw - I think they don't want folks to be able to store fuel.

I'm under the impression that the "non-taxed" part of that is the key and not the blend. They want to tax the same thing differently based on how it is used. Specifically they want to make it difficult to put untaxed fuel in your car or truck.

Online roamer_1

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I'm under the impression that the "non-taxed" part of that is the key and not the blend. They want to tax the same thing differently based on how it is used. Specifically they want to make it difficult to put untaxed fuel in your car or truck.

Right - I know the emphasis is about tax - but I think they are messing with non-ag diesel.

Offline Bigun

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Gasoline by nature is much more volatile than diesel and that alone makes it harder to store for any length of time.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline DCPatriot

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Gasoline by nature is much more volatile than diesel and that alone makes it harder to store for any length of time.

Well, current gas stations in Germantown, Maryland need not be concerned...ONE HOUR long lines already, everywhere.    **nononono*

...changed my mind about going to the NATS game vs. PHILLIES tonight.  Why spend the gas, with
 a heavy route for work due tomorrow?
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Well, current gas stations in Germantown, Maryland need not be concerned...ONE HOUR long lines already, everywhere.    **nononono*

...changed my mind about going to the NATS game vs. PHILLIES tonight.  Why spend the gas, with
 a heavy route for work due tomorrow?

Our local stations here on the other side of the river have been out of gas since last evening @DCPatriot

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Incredible, the conversation. I guess pipelines are valuable after all. I suggest the operators use the software that protects our voting machines. They are impenetrable.
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Offline DCPatriot

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Our local stations here on the other side of the river have been out of gas since last evening @DCPatriot

@Right_in_Virginia

Here we go,...right?

Heard Colonial Pipeline will be back up within a week's time.  That means that SOMEBODY paid the ransom.

My guess is the Administration paid it out of the latest 'Infrastructure' heist.  Because the last thing they need right now is to interrupt their racial dividing.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline DCPatriot

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Incredible, the conversation. I guess pipelines are valuable after all. I suggest the operators use the software that protects our voting machines. They are impenetrable.

  @Lando Lincoln

LOL!  Indeed!
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

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