Young Americans Against Socialism

[Skull]

A recent worthy group helping clueless youngsters understand the evil of Socialism and the good of Capitalism:

https://yaas.org/

[Absalom]

Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do w/Virtue; the Good!
It's an economic system born of Materialism and hardly a noble calling.

[roamer_1]

Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do w/Virtue; the Good!
It's an economic system born of Materialism and hardly a noble calling.

I reckon I will disagree there.
Capitalism is as close to natural business as can be defined. What is more natural that two parties voluntarily participating in a contract?

If there is nobility in business, it will be found in capitalism. And I think you do poorly by many small businesses up and down main street with those remarks.

[Skull]

Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do w/Virtue; the Good!
It's an economic system born of Materialism and hardly a noble calling.

Baloney - time you revisited Adam Smith.  Maybe I will find a good quote for you.  Before 1776 ed. of Wealth of Nations his Theory of Moral Sentiments of 1759 was the wellspring for his capitalism.  Here is that ruling sentiment from Wealth of Nations [my abridgment]:

Poverty is extremely unfavourable to the rearing of children. It is not uncommon in the Highlands of Scotland for a mother who has borne twenty children not to have two alive. In some places one half the children born die before they are four years of age; in many places before they are seven; and in almost all places before they are nine or ten. This great mortality, however, will every where be found chiefly among the children of the common people, who cannot afford to tend them with the same care as those of better station.

[Skull]

Back to topic of this noble movement of YAAS.  Here is one of their short pieces that younger folks know nothing about:

https://yaas.org/read/whatiscapitalism

[Absalom]

Baloney - time you revisited Adam Smith.  Maybe I will find a good quote for you.  Before 1776 ed. of Wealth of Nations his Theory of Moral Sentiments of 1759 was the wellspring for his capitalism.  Here is that ruling sentiment from Wealth of Nations [my abridgment]:

-----------------------------
Uninterested in your self-serving quotes which reinforce your prejudices, rather than inform.
(my apologies for the interruption).
Anatomically Modern Man, emigrated to the Middle East around 72,000 BC,
to China around 60,000 BC, to Europe around 32,000 BC and so on, across the world.
Then core agricultural development of grains, followed by the domestication of livestock, occurred around 8,000 BC. Next came the gradual development of the earliest Cities
and Towns encouraging Mankind to survive and thrive. And on and on and on.....
The timeline between the emergence of Middle East Man and the present is 74,000 years.
The French Enlightenment chaperoned Capitalism into Europe, around 1750 AD.
Therefore since Mankind's experience w/Capitalism is 250 years/74,000 years, equivalent
to .0034% of the time; obviously Mankind's greatest achievements occurred during
the balance of the time, some 73,750 years or 99.9966% of the time.
Anyone challenging this, take a glance at the Art produced by the Ancients.
My source: CASSELL'S CHRONOLOY OF WORLD HISTORY.

[Skull]

-----------------------------
Uninterested in your self-serving quotes which reinforce your prejudices.
(continue in a moment as power is out)

When you do continue, do it in the new Adam Smith thread, not here.  Also your line of --------------- is pointless, not needed.

[Skull]

One of YAAS videos at YouTube on Marxism:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faONeq_7UDM

[DB]

Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do w/Virtue; the Good!
It's an economic system born of Materialism and hardly a noble calling.

Freedom to make one's own choices without government interference is a noble cause.

[Absalom]

Freedom to make one's own choices without government interference is a noble cause.

-----------------------------------------------
Respectfully, Edmund Burke, followed by T.S. Eliot then Russell Kirk; asserted that Principled
Conservatism defined by the Ancients more than two thousand years ago was independent
of Religion, of Politics and of Economics. That is my core point.

[Absalom]

I reckon I will disagree there.
Capitalism is as close to natural business as can be defined. What is more natural that two parties voluntarily participating in a contract?
If there is nobility in business, it will be found in capitalism. And I think you do poorly by many small businesses up and down main street with those remarks.

--------------------------
Roamer,
disagreement is acceptable even welcome, when it's enlightened, as yours usually is.
My comment was motivated by my irritation at those who wrap piety and sanctimony
around their topic as a defense/justification that has no basis in fact.
Capitalism is an economic system period; hardly the 11th Commandment.

[roamer_1]

--------------------------
Roamer,
disagreement is acceptable even welcome, when it's enlightened, as yours usually is.
My comment was motivated by my irritation at those who wrap piety and sanctimony
around their topic as a defense/justification that has no basis in fact.
Capitalism is an economic system period; hardly the 11th Commandment.

As usual @Absalom my disagreements with you are not made in offense, but rather to pose the question.

As with comparing the French Enlightenment to anything always, I will circle back to my originating premise in these matters: There were TWO very distinct 'enlightenments' going on, and one would be able to see more clearly when they are not concatenated, and rather, juxtaposed.

I see what we call capitalism as stemming directly out of Natural Law, via the Magna Carta in the light of Blackstone, and the rise of the English Middle Class, It comes from there, and no where else. That is why we try to run a system that is largely unregulated - To keep government from meddling in the liberty we so vociferously defend.

The other is what we call Cronyism or corporate capitalism which uses the same principles, tortured int a shape to form hedges to protect the wealth of the elite and quash all competition.

The two are not the same thing. And there is nothing so necessary to liberty as a free market, as the rise of the English Middle Class attests.

[roamer_1]

-----------------------------------------------
Respectfully, Edmund Burke, followed by T.S. Eliot then Russell Kirk; asserted that Principled
Conservatism defined by the Ancients more than two thousand years ago was independent
of Religion, of Politics and of Economics. That is my core point.

In an experimental sense perhaps. But there is no sense in denying that some governments lend themselves more favorably than others. And in that, Conservatism and governing bodies of every kind must meet. If one recognizes that, and one cares to shop around, I dare say you will find no better environment for Conservatism than you will find in American government (truly applied) as seen through a proper Judeo-Christian prism.  There has been no greater engine.

[Absalom]

As usual @Absalom my disagreements with you are not made in offense, but rather to pose the question.
As with comparing the French Enlightenment to anything always, I will circle back to my originating premise in these matters: There were TWO very distinct 'enlightenments' going on, and one would be able to see more clearly when they are not concatenated, and rather, juxtaposed.
I see what we call capitalism as stemming directly out of Natural Law, via the Magna Carta in the light of Blackstone, and the rise of the English Middle Class, It comes from there, and no where else. That is why we try to run a system that is largely unregulated - To keep government from meddling in the liberty we so vociferously defend.
The other is what we call Cronyism or corporate capitalism which uses the same principles, tortured into a shape to form hedges to protect the wealth of the elite and quash all competition.
The two are not the same thing. And there is nothing so necessary to liberty as a free market, as the rise of the English Middle Class attests.

------------------------------
Roamer, great credit to your maturity as you refuse to personalize disagreement.
As for your comments, much to reflect about and consider.
Your intuitive contrast of English and French temperament brought to mind my school
days of ages past and Julius Caesar's "Gallic Wars Dispatches".
Caesar, continuously in need of military support from the Roman Senate, obviously
had to defend his requests.
What resonated in his replies, were his characterizations of Gallic belligerence as
compulsive by those more absorbed by the fight itself rather than winning or loosing.
Yet this was not always so w/the Angles & Saxons whose vision was more expansive.
As a result, Caesar could often secure peace w/the them yet never w/ the Gauls.
Reflecting, those temperamental differences emerged in history among their heirs,
the English and French.
Sure France produced the likes of Charlemagne, Martel and Napoleon; yet England
produced an Empire that effectively ruled the world under Victoria.
-------------
Your contrast between the Capitalism of Blackstone, Locke, Hume, Burke, Smith
and the Cronyism prevalent now is on the mark. More comments to come shortly.

[Skull]

Off topic posts clutter up the thread -    Maybe there are not very many folks under 50 years here.

At any rate, here is Morgan helping her generation understand some basics about the Iron Curtain:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31NQezzR6Mg

[Absalom]

Off topic posts clutter up the thread - Maybe there are not very many folks under 50 years here.
At any rate, here is Morgan helping her generation understand some basics about the Iron Curtain:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31NQezzR6Mg

----------------------------
Hmm...........clutter eh???
Upon reflection, it sounds like a synonym for; "As I never heard of the topic he's posting,
it surely must be clutter." Why of course.
Anyway, at least the Iron Curtain will instantly bring quietude to noisy Toddlers!

[Skull]

----------------------------
Hmm...........clutter eh???
Upon reflection, it sounds like a synonym for; "As I never heard of the topic he's posting,
it surely must be clutter." Why of course.

It is simply rude to interrupt.  For example - a water skiing topic with posts about dominoes.

[Absalom]

It is simply rude to interrupt.  For example - a water skiing topic with posts about dominoes.

------------------------------
Look Skull, how 'bout a time out?
You ain't the enemy so lets take a copula days break?
Then we can start over!

[Skull]

------------------------------
Look Skull, how 'bout a time out?
You ain't the enemy so lets take a copula days break?
Then we can start over!

Fine with me.

[Absalom]

As usual my disagreements with you are not made in offense, but rather to pose the question.
As with comparing the French Enlightenment to anything always, I will circle back to my originating premise in these matters: There were TWO very distinct 'enlightenments' going on, and one would be able to see more clearly when they are not concatenated, and rather, juxtaposed.
I see what we call capitalism as stemming directly out of Natural Law, via the Magna Carta in the light of Blackstone, and the rise of the English Middle Class, It comes from there, and no where else. That is why we try to run a system that is largely unregulated - To keep government from meddling in the liberty we so vociferously defend.
The other is what we call Cronyism or corporate capitalism which uses the same principles, tortured into a shape to form hedges to protect the wealth of the elite and quash all competition. The two are not the same thing.
And there is nothing so necessary to liberty as a free market, as the rise of the English Middle Class attests.

----------------------------
Roamer,
Per usual, your comments on Capitalism are intuitive and reflective; particularly the
unsaid yet implied notion that the temperament of Anglo-Saxons (Fathers of the English), encouraged the development of Capitalism.
Reflecting a moment, it's apparent why the natural birthplace of Capitalism was England,
as it could have been anywhere else across Europe, which has shared climate/geography.
After all, the Roman Empire was the decider as to who did what and w/whom,
for some 12 centuries.
Indeed, the Magna Carta was hardly an accident nor were the likes of Blackstone.
Certainty these are most worthy ideas deserving of continuance in due course.
Pardon the several interruptions which were beyond my control.

[Skull]

Jeeze Abby - I am not getting thru to you. So I will start another thread about this group Young Americans Against Socialism.

Then you and roamer can continue Uninterrupted.

[roamer_1]

----------------------------
Roamer,
Per usual, your comments on Capitalism are intuitive and reflective; particularly the
unsaid yet implied notion that the temperament of Anglo-Saxons (Fathers of the English), encouraged the development of Capitalism.
Reflecting a moment, it's apparent why the natural birthplace of Capitalism was England,
as it could have been anywhere else across Europe, which has shared climate/geography.
After all, the Roman Empire was the decider as to who did what and w/whom,
for some 12 centuries.
Indeed, the Magna Carta was hardly an accident nor were the likes of Blackstone.
Certainty these are most worthy ideas deserving of continuance in due course.
Pardon the several interruptions which were beyond my control.

It is truly one of my favorite times in history, @Absalom ... One better served with sweet tea on the porch for hours and hours... Suffice it to say that the rise of the Middle Class - A fete unparalleled in history, a truly new thing - What incredible repercussions, what a generous bounty that moment gave to Man... And ever since, nefarious forces have been trying desperately to destroy it. That Middle Class, buoyed on Capitalism (the raiser of all boats) is the very essence of the rise of liberty and the whole of Western Civ. Destroy capitalism and that middle class disappears, and we are right back in a feudal state, most probably at the whim of an empire - Which is, more or less the norm.

So I am wont to guard Capitalism for its purpose. For all it's grit - It is not as pretty as the more cerebral philosophical discussions we might have - But for all it's grit and grease, it is the veritable engine that drove it all. If you want to get 'under the hood' of the modern West, that is truly where it begins. The wheat as it were, growing up among the European tares.

I would relish that long talk with you, out on the porch... There are few that spend their time on such things, and for whatever disagreement we might have, I sense in you a kindred spirit.