Getting Started with Ham Amateur (Ham) Radio

[Bigun]

@Bigun @Cyber Liberty

It's not a harmonic. It's WWCR-3:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWCR

Thanks! That is news to me, I was completely unaware of any AM broadcasting here outside the 540 - 1700 Khz band

[Cyber Liberty]

@Bigun @Cyber Liberty

It's not a harmonic. It's WWCR-3:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWCR

I stand corrected!  The link shows that's in the frequency range for WWCR-3 Shortwave, and it's likely Mike Lindell was on it considering the programming available there.  And it's Amplitude Modulated.

[Victoria33]

@Cyber Liberty
@roamer_1

I have a Ham radio receiver.  I had a genius friend, Ham radio guy, tell me what to buy, and he set it up for me.  I will call him Joe for this post.  Joe is a physics instructor at a college.  He is also a communication director at the main hospital there if there is an emergency, such as a hurricane, etc.  If there is an emergency, he goes to the hospital, has a communication room there and directs communications, including using Ham radio if necessary and stays there until the emergency is over.   He volunteers his time for this.

He is a true genius.  A doctorate paper was done on him when he was a small child.  He could make items out of whatever he had, that would work, when he was elementary school age.

His father was also like that, an inventor, and the two of them built a car that would float on air and go forward, just like a regular car. 

They took it to town and drove it on the city streets.  People were pulling off the street to watch it.  A cop came, yelled at them to park, and they did.  He said he could not arrest them as the car was not on the street, it was above the street, but please take the car home before they caused a wreck from people watching it.

He had a "different" kind of job before teaching at a college.  The company he worked for had a contract with the Naval installation there.  Joe wrote computer code to screw up the Naval station computers; he did it, then contacted the Navy guys and told them what he did.  Then, he fixed their computers so it would not happen again.   His whole life is interesting as he is not like "normal" people.

[BassWrangler]

I stand corrected!  The link shows that's in the frequency range for WWCR-3 Shortwave, and it's likely Mike Lindell was on it considering the programming available there.  And it's Amplitude Modulated.

I was as surprised as you were, as it's not within the "Shortwave" band that my SDR receiver shows. I wasn't able to find the allocation in the FCC FRN system, though, so not sure exactly what's up with that. I'm sure it's licensed, as otherwise FCC would have something to say about an unlicensed 100KW transmitter in Nashville!

[BassWrangler]

We had some interest from @libertybele , @Cyber Liberty , @DB ,  in getting the Ham radio license. @Weird Tolkienish Figure mentioned FRS and GMRS, and neither of these require taking a test, so I thought I would provide some info on those.

GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) is a more restricted license than Amateur radio, but it does not require taking a test to get a license. You just fill out an application, pay $70 to the FCC, and you get a license. What's really cool about it is that YOUR license allows your immediate family (kids, spouse, parents, grandparents, nieces/nephews, uncles/aunts) to transmit as well. And the FCC has announced they will be lowering the license fee (IIRC it will be $35), although they seem to be taking their sweet time about implementing the new cost in their computer system.

GMRS is increasingly popular. It uses a range of frequencies in the UHF band (462 - 467 MHz). Because it's in these higher frequencies, it's only really useful for short range communications (you won't be bouncing signals off the ionosphere to talk with someone in Japan). Typically you can count on at least a mile range with a 5-watt handheld device, although in perfect conditions, you can often reach 15-16 miles. As GMRS has increased in popularity, repeaters are popping up in many locations. With a repeater, it's often possible to communicate much longer distances - as much as 100 miles, although typically 40-50 miles is more realistic.

GMRS is very simple. There are 30 channels (frequencies). 8 of these are reserved for use with repeaters. GMRS shares the other 22 channels with FRS (Family Radio Service - more on this below). Typically the radio you buy will have the power limits and channels all configured, so it's not something you'll have to worry about. This simplicity is one of the things that makes it attractive. GMRS is very popular with hunters and people doing other outdoor activities.

As I mentioned above, FRS (Family Radio Service) shares channels with GMRS. It is unlicensed, meaning you can just buy a FRS radio and start using it. However, the power limits on FRS are much lower, so if you can afford it, I recommend getting a GMRS license and radio.

If people are interested, let me know and I will share some more info, including some recommendations on radios.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

@Bigun - you might find this amusing. I have one of those little SDR devices, and the other evening I saw this strange signal on 4.785 MHz. It was a sawtooth shaped frequency sweep, like radar, but with the low frequency, I didn't think it was radar. Well, some folks at work helped me identify it, and turns out it is CODAR, which is used for monitoring ocean waves and currents.

But that's not the funny part. What's funny is that tonight I tuned back to this area of the spectrum to see if the signal was still there (it was) and noticed what looked like a strong AM signal nearby (4.840 MHz). I tuned to this and it was the MyPillow guy! Seems like he was talking about the election.

For the RTL-SDR, for the SDR sharp software, if it's not configured correctly you will find FM transmissions all over the band, this is the software incorrectly interpreting things. For 4.840 mhz, you need to turn on "direct sampling Q branch" to get correct readings once you change frequencies to Shortwave and AM radio.

And as someone pointed out there are actual commercial Shortwave stations out there (which astounds me, as hardly anyone listens to shortwave in the US).

[Elderberry]

And as someone pointed out there are actual commercial Shortwave stations out there (which astounds me, as hardly anyone listens to shortwave in the US).

Back in the Pre-WWW days, mid 80's, I had an Insomniac co-worker that would be on top of any current global event with comments from what he heard on shortwave from around the world.

[BassWrangler]

For the RTL-SDR, for the SDR sharp software, if it's not configured correctly you will find FM transmissions all over the band, this is the software incorrectly interpreting things. For 4.840 mhz, you need to turn on "direct sampling Q branch" to get correct readings once you change frequencies to Shortwave and AM radio.

And as someone pointed out there are actual commercial Shortwave stations out there (which astounds me, as hardly anyone listens to shortwave in the US).

That wasn't the issue. I am using an Airspy Discovery HF+, not the RTL-SDR, BTW. The source of the two signals has been confirmed, and neither is a harmonic.

One is coastal radar coming out of a station located near Ft Bragg California (look it up, there actually is a town named that in CA). Coastal radar, as it turns out, is a well-known source of interference to Ham radio. More info here.

The other is WWCR-3 in Nashville, TN, which is a 100kW AM station operating in a strange band near one of the common shortwave bands. WWCR has four different 100kW transmitters that in total operate on a total of 14 different frequencies over the course of 24 hours. It is mostly Christian content, although I believe Alex Jones is on there too. More info here.

[BassWrangler]

Back in the Pre-WWW days, mid 80's, I had an Insomniac co-worker that would be on top of any current global event with comments from what he heard on shortwave from around the world.

Before the Internet, I imagine it might have been the most practical way to get international news.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Before the Internet, I imagine it might have been the most practical way to get international news.

Might be. I have no problem with Shortwave, but word was 10 years ago when I first heavily got into this stuff, was that shortwave stations were closing left and right, and people were all sort of abandoning non-internet and non-ham related radio in general (CB radio, GMRS, FRS radio). Because it can be disappointing to spend money on radios and hear nothing but channels and frequencies filled with nothing but static.

However, with my SDR a quick scan of the shortwave band does indeed show that there were plenty of international channels still broadcasting even recently.

And HAM radio is quite active as the HAMS I know don't have a high opinion of your typical internet user.

There's an interesting app called "Zello" which is basically a PTT (push to talk) phone app that works very similar to a HAM network already in place that uses the internet and a network of repeaters.

[BassWrangler]

Might be. I have no problem with Shortwave, but word was 10 years ago when I first heavily got into this stuff, was that shortwave stations were closing left and right, and people were all sort of abandoning non-internet and non-ham related radio in general (CB radio, GMRS, FRS radio). Because it can be disappointing to spend money on radios and hear nothing but channels and frequencies filled with nothing but static.

However, with my SDR a quick scan of the shortwave band does indeed show that there were plenty of international channels still broadcasting even recently.

And HAM radio is quite active as the HAMS I know don't have a high opinion of your typical internet user.

There's an interesting app called "Zello" which is basically a PTT (push to talk) phone app that works very similar to a HAM network already in place that uses the internet and a network of repeaters.

Actually, this have changed quite a bit over the last 10 years. GMRS is quite popular these days, primarily among aoutdoorsman and preppers. In Ham radio, HF usage has been on a steep decline, but with the sun cycle improving, maybe that will change. For VHF/UHF, the DMR digital mode has become popular. Also, there are now these "hotspot" devices that provide a local, low power, simplex connection that tunnels over the Internet to users all over the world. I think this is one of the reasons HF is on the decline. There are no giant antennas, no competing with jackasses with 1000 watt transmitters, etc.

[roamer_1]

Actually, this have changed quite a bit over the last 10 years. GMRS is quite popular these days, primarily among aoutdoorsman and preppers. In Ham radio, HF usage has been on a steep decline, but with the sun cycle improving, maybe that will change. For VHF/UHF, the DMR digital mode has become popular. Also, there are now these "hotspot" devices that provide a local, low power, simplex connection that tunnels over the Internet to users all over the world. I think this is one of the reasons HF is on the decline. There are no giant antennas, no competing with jackasses with 1000 watt transmitters, etc.

GMRS is basically useless up in here. CB is still a pretty active thing... if you turn up a dirt road and there is a spray painted cb channel on a piece of plywood as you are going by, bet money there are loggers up that road, and they want you to holler where you are at from time to time, and will come back at you if they are coming down with a load.
I went hard to VHF/UHF lately. Just handhelds for now. But eventually mobiiles and a base. We have a user operated  network of repeater towers around here, and with that dumb little hand-held, from the middle of nowhere, I can talk all the way to Priest River over in Idaho.

Still trying to suss it out, but it is crazy effective in comparison to literally anything else.

[BassWrangler]

GMRS is basically useless up in here. CB is still a pretty active thing... if you turn up a dirt road and there is a spray painted cb channel on a piece of plywood as you are going by, bet money there are loggers up that road, and they want you to holler where you are at from time to time, and will come back at you if they are coming down with a load.
I went hard to VHF/UHF lately. Just handhelds for now. But eventually mobiiles and a base. We have a user operated  network of repeater towers around here, and with that dumb little hand-held, from the middle of nowhere, I can talk all the way to Priest River over in Idaho.

Still trying to suss it out, but it is crazy effective in comparison to literally anything else.

GMRS is used primarily for communication between people in close proximity. For example, hunters at a hunt camp. So it's not useless, and doesn't matter where you are located. A repeater makes it more useful by extending the range.

You might be interested to know that there is a GMRS repeater in Flathead Valley:

https://mygmrs.com/repeater/4108

[roamer_1]

GMRS is used primarily for communication between people in close proximity. For example, hunters at a hunt camp. So it's not useless, and doesn't matter where you are located. A repeater makes it more useful by extending the range.

Yeah, I know what it is for... being UHF, it does not bounce very much... Talking around the corner of a mountain just will not happen. A 5w CB handheld will do better, as I have personally demonstrated.

Now, that ain't to say if a guy had a GMRS mobile in the truck, with the advantage that a mobile has over a handheld,  that might compare. I did not have a GMRS mobile rigged up. But I can say without a doubt that a 5w CB handheld will talk back to a CB mobile in camp farther in rough country, than one GMRS handheld will talk to another handheld. GMRS does not function in deep woods, and does not talk around corners.

You might be interested to know that there is a GMRS repeater in Flathead Valley:

https://mygmrs.com/repeater/4108

Yes, I know... That is basically the valley floor. It does little once you get back in the mountains. The VHF/UHF repeaters are more numerous - I have emergency access to all logger channels, and emergency/LEO channels via their repeaters in addition to the free (liberty) repeaters. Way more network up in here.

[BassWrangler]

Yeah, I know what it is for... being UHF, it does not bounce very much... Talking around the corner of a mountain just will not happen. A 5w CB handheld will do better, as I have personally demonstrated.

Now, that ain't to say if a guy had a GMRS mobile in the truck, with the advantage that a mobile has over a handheld,  that might compare. I did not have a GMRS mobile rigged up. But I can say without a doubt that a 5w CB handheld will talk back to a CB mobile in camp farther in rough country, than one GMRS handheld will talk to another handheld. GMRS does not function in deep woods, and does not talk around corners.

Yes, I know... That is basically the valley floor. It does little once you get back in the mountains. The VHF/UHF repeaters are more numerous - I have emergency access to all logger channels, and emergency/LEO channels via their repeaters in addition to the free (liberty) repeaters. Way more network up in here.

Yes, that's true what you say about UHF.

Down in a valley seems like a dumb place to put a repeater. Here (Western Washington) the repeaters are all up on small mountains, or on big broadcast towers, so they are very effective. The APRS packets from my little 5W HT are frequently picked up by an APRS station out on a mountain in the Olympic Peninsula that is 50 miles away, and that's because it's up on a mountain. It's extra impressive when you consider that because APRS has no forward error correction, range isn't nearly as good as voice. I'm talking about Ham repeaters, of course; I am still waiting on my GMRS radio so I can check out the GMRS repeater.

[roamer_1]

Yes, that's true what you say about UHF.

Down in a valley seems like a dumb place to put a repeater. Here (Western Washington) the repeaters are all up on small mountains, or on big broadcast towers, so they are very effective. The APRS packets from my little 5W HT are frequently picked up by an APRS station out on a mountain in the Olympic Peninsula that is 50 miles away, and that's because it's up on a mountain. It's extra impressive when you consider that because APRS has no forward error correction, range isn't nearly as good as voice. I'm talking about Ham repeaters, of course; I am still waiting on my GMRS radio so I can check out the GMRS repeater.

Oh, it likely is on a mountain top... But you don't understand, we have range upon range upon range.
And it is a big valley... So it isn't without its use. It just won't penetrate far beyond it.

[Bigun]

We don't have many mountains here but we do have some linked repeaters.  I can hit one of them and be heard from Lafeyette Louisianna to near Ft. Stockton, Texas.

All via radio. No internet required.

[BassWrangler]

Oh, it likely is on a mountain top... But you don't understand, we have range upon range upon range.
And it is a big valley... So it isn't without its use. It just won't penetrate far beyond it.

Ah, I see.

[BassWrangler]

We don't have many mountains here but we do have some linked repeaters.  I can hit one of them and be heard from Lafeyette Louisianna to near Ft. Stockton, Texas.

All via radio. No internet required.

We got those too:

http://pnwdigital.net/

[BassWrangler]

I am just now learning about this HF digital mode called FT8. It's not new, but it is new to me. Apparently it is for low speed text messages that work even when the signal-to-noise ratio is fairly poor.

http://www.w0wtn.org/downloads/n0dl/Introduction%20to%20Ham%20Radio%20Digital%20Mode%20FT8.pdf

There are some audio samples in that doc. If you've listened to HF transmissions before, you'll probably recognize the sound; FT8 sounds very strange.

[Bigun]

I am just now learning about this HF digital mode called FT8. It's not new, but it is new to me. Apparently it is for low speed text messages that work even when the signal-to-noise ratio is fairly poor.

https://www.w0wtn.org/downloads/n0dl/Introduction%20to%20Ham%20Radio%20Digital%20Mode%20FT8.pdf

There are some audio samples in that doc. If you've listened to HF transmissions before, you'll probably recognize the sound; FT8 sounds very strange.

There are a few people in our local club into FT8 big time.  I'm not one of them.

[BassWrangler]

There are a few people in our local club into FT8 big time.  I'm not one of them.

It looks fairly complex to set up, unless you have an HF rig that handles it all.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I’m a big fan of baofengs.I bought the programming cable and have the gmrs frs and marine stations programmed in and a few repeater stations as well.

[BassWrangler]

I’m a big fan of baofengs.I bought the programming cable and have the gmrs frs and marine stations programmed in and a few repeater stations as well.

They are cheap, but you should know a couple of things about them:

• They emit spurious harmonics that make them technically illegal to use in the US, and may be causing interference to those operating in other bands.
• If it's able to transmit in both Ham bands and GMRS/FRS you can be 100% positive it's not Part 95 certified and using one is a violation of federal law
• They tend to exaggerate power output, so you might buy a radio that says 7W and find out its actually putting out 4W

If you want to give money to China to save a few bucks, I would recommend the Wouxon brand, which is actually pretty good. They also use a real super-heterodyne receiver, so they are more sensitive and have an actual working squelch circuit.

[Bigun]

They are cheap, but you should know a couple of things about them:

• They emit spurious harmonics that make them technically illegal to use in the US, and may be causing interference to those operating in other bands.
• If it's able to transmit in both Ham bands and GMRS/FRS you can be 100% positive it's not Part 95 certified and using one is a violation of federal law
• They tend to exaggerate power output, so you might buy a radio that says 7W and find out its actually putting out 4W

If you want to give money to China to save a few bucks, I would recommend the Wouxon brand, which is actually pretty good. They also use a real super-heterodyne receiver, so they are more sensitive and have an actual working squelch circuit.

100% correct on all counts.  @BassWrangler Any radio with a vfo is not legal on GMRS/FRS period!