« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster  (Read 10381 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,055
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2021, 02:28:28 pm »
Quote from: HikerGuy83 on June 23, 2021, 02:24:05 pm
For now, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I only give the benefit of the doubt to potentially trustworthy people.  Manchin and Sinema have proven themselves untrustworthy, so screw them.  Before she was elected to the Senate, she was my Representative and she had ample opportunity to earn my trust, but all she did was lie to me.
Logged
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline HikerGuy83

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,444
  • Gender: Male
  • Still Trying
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2021, 09:21:20 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on June 23, 2021, 02:28:28 pm
I only give the benefit of the doubt to potentially trustworthy people.  Manchin and Sinema have proven themselves untrustworthy, so screw them.  Before she was elected to the Senate, she was my Representative and she had ample opportunity to earn my trust, but all she did was lie to me.

1. That is your experience
2.  That is not my experience
3. People can change
4. Obviously  the left is pissed at both of them

As I said, time will tell.

BTW: Who are AZ conservatives lining up to challenge Kelly.

Please don't say McSally.  My stomach is  tender enough as it is.
Logged

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,055
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2021, 12:13:18 am »
Quote from: HikerGuy83 on June 23, 2021, 09:21:20 pm
1. That is your experience
2.  That is not my experience
3. People can change
4. Obviously  the left is pissed at both of them

As I said, time will tell.

BTW: Who are AZ conservatives lining up to challenge Kelly.

Please don't say McSally.  My stomach is  tender enough as it is.

NO.  No McSally.
Logged
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2021, 05:52:36 pm »
Quote from: HikerGuy83 on June 16, 2021, 09:37:42 pm
Manchin has indicated he might leave the senate to run for governor.

At best, Sinema would go independent.
Manchin has already been there and done that.

He has a much better gig now as he gets all sorts of federal money going to his state, and his wife has a cushy federal job.

He supports Schumer 99.99% of the time, so he is a scumbag.
Logged
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline HikerGuy83

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,444
  • Gender: Male
  • Still Trying
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2021, 05:08:27 pm »
Quote from: IsailedawayfromFR on June 24, 2021, 05:52:36 pm
Manchin has already been there and done that.

He has a much better gig now as he gets all sorts of federal money going to his state, and his wife has a cushy federal job.

He supports Schumer 99.99% of the time, so he is a scumbag.

In 2019, he signaled he would.

Which had the dems in a tizzy because he would be replaced by a republican (yay !!!).

Then he changed his mind....wanted to help make congress work.
Logged

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,055
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2021, 05:36:28 pm »
Quote from: HikerGuy83 on June 26, 2021, 05:08:27 pm
In 2019, he signaled he would.

Which had the dems in a tizzy because he would be replaced by a republican (yay !!!).

Then he changed his mind....wanted to help make congress work...

...for Manchen.

:mauslaff:
Logged
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline HikerGuy83

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,444
  • Gender: Male
  • Still Trying
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2021, 07:10:31 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on June 26, 2021, 05:36:28 pm
...for Manchen.

:mauslaff:

He's a democrat.

I am not sure what you are expecting.

Can you cynics at lease admit he isn't Chuch Schumer ?
Logged

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,662
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2021, 07:24:40 pm »
Quote from: HikerGuy83 on June 23, 2021, 02:24:05 pm
I am sorry, but there is no evidence to support that.

There is no meter you can attach to them to determine why they do what they do.

They have both stated why they are doing it.  Whether you believe it or not, unless you can produce anything to the contrary you are only speculating.

Cynicism in politics is pretty common.

I see that at work here.

Justified ?

Hard to tell.

For now, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

That's right. Hail fellow, well met.
Strange bedfellows exist. Be grateful for the circumstance that provides an alignment, however fleeting and narrow.
Logged

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,055
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2021, 07:25:39 pm »
Quote from: HikerGuy83 on June 26, 2021, 07:10:31 pm
He's a democrat.

I am not sure what you are expecting.

Can you cynics at lease admit he isn't Chuch Schumer ?

What would be the point in it?  He votes with Chuck consistently.
Logged
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,055
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2021, 07:27:21 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on June 26, 2021, 07:24:40 pm
That's right. Hail fellow, well met.
Strange bedfellows exist. Be grateful for the circumstance that provides an alignment, however fleeting and narrow.

Fleeting, narrow and an illusion.  Not much good can come of it.
Logged
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,662
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2021, 07:51:20 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on June 26, 2021, 07:27:21 pm
Fleeting, narrow and an illusion.  Not much good can come of it.

Other than retaining the filibuster and stuff like that, fairly important to the party out of power. I don't have to agree with them on ANYTHING else, but if they stand in that defense against terrible pressure, credit is due.
Logged

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,055
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2021, 07:53:57 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on June 26, 2021, 07:51:20 pm
Other than retaining the filibuster and stuff like that, fairly important to the party out of power. I don't have to agree with them on ANYTHING else, but if they stand in that defense against terrible pressure, credit is due.

Oh, I agree with that, but that hasn't happened yet, so let's see.  Let's give Manchen the same benefit of the doubt you gave Donald Trump, until he shanks the ball into the infield.
Logged
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,662
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2021, 08:01:08 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on June 26, 2021, 07:53:57 pm
Oh, I agree with that, but that hasn't happened yet, so let's see.  Let's give Manchen the same benefit of the doubt you gave Donald Trump, until he shanks the ball into the infield.

The difference being of course, that Manchin is not declared the most 'conservety conservative evah' and is merely an ally of convenience.

You will find I ally more closely than most with Libertarians too - They are not Conservatives per se, but then, they never claimed to be. In that I am free to find common ground and move forward, and I am thus inclined.



Logged

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,274
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2021, 08:03:53 pm »
Funny how Democrats wanted to keep the filibuster through the first two-thirds of the 20th century when Republicans were pushing civil rights legislation guaranteeing equality for African-Americans.
Logged
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,055
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2021, 08:14:04 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on June 26, 2021, 08:01:08 pm
The difference being of course, that Manchin is not declared the most 'conservety conservative evah' and is merely an ally of convenience.

You will find I ally more closely than most with Libertarians too - They are not Conservatives per se, but then, they never claimed to be. In that I am free to find common ground and move forward, and I am thus inclined.

I think I get it now.  Since Manchen is a Democrat, we expect him to be a liar and a cheat, and should be happy when he performs it with less zeal than we've come to expect from the likes of AOC and her squad.

No Sale. 
Logged
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,662
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2021, 08:24:27 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on June 26, 2021, 08:14:04 pm
I think I get it now.  Since Manchen is a Democrat, we expect him to be a liar and a cheat, and should be happy when he performs it with less zeal than we've come to expect from the likes of AOC and her squad.

No Sale.

Then your preference would be the filibuster removed, and a small majority Democrat lead running roughshod through the senate like they had 2/3rds... Because to date, what stands in the way of that are two Democrat senators.

I don't have to agree with them on nothing else, But I would have to be an idiot not to credit them in this and take the win. In fact, I would like to have more Democrats to agree with more often - Me and Zell Miller had a lot in common... Even Lieberman and I could find common ground. To encourage a more centrist wing of the Democrat party is a bane to liberals.

So when there is agreement, I think it should be noted. Even if it is phony. Because the popular acclaim found in doing the right thing encourages more of the same.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 08:25:35 pm by roamer_1 »
Logged

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,274
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2021, 08:35:08 pm »
Personally, I don't have a problem with reducing the filibuster to 55 votes.  Throughout our history, it has been utilized almost exclusively by Democrats.  When Republicans hold over 40 seats, they already give Democrats everything they want 95% of the time.  Just look at what they handed Obama without a fight for eight years.
Logged
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,055
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2021, 08:44:56 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on June 26, 2021, 08:24:27 pm
Then your preference would be the filibuster removed, and a small majority Democrat lead running roughshod through the senate like they had 2/3rds... Because to date, what stands in the way of that are two Democrat senators.

I don't have to agree with them on nothing else, But I would have to be an idiot not to credit them in this and take the win. In fact, I would like to have more Democrats to agree with more often - Me and Zell Miller had a lot in common... Even Lieberman and I could find common ground. To encourage a more centrist wing of the Democrat party is a bane to liberals.

So when there is agreement, I think it should be noted. Even if it is phony. Because the popular acclaim found in doing the right thing encourages more of the same.

Sorry, I clean forgot to list my preference.  Surely you aren't making a straw man and calling me liberal?
Logged
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,662
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2021, 08:50:32 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on June 26, 2021, 08:44:56 pm
Sorry, I clean forgot to list my preference.  Surely you aren't making a straw man and calling me liberal?

pshaw.
Logged

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,055
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2021, 09:00:08 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on June 26, 2021, 08:50:32 pm
pshaw.

LOL!   :beer:

(Just pulling your lower extremity.)
Logged
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,274
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2021, 09:11:30 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on June 26, 2021, 08:24:27 pm
Then your preference would be the filibuster removed, and a small majority Democrat lead running roughshod through the senate like they had 2/3rds...

This has already been the case 95% of the time for the last half century.

If we can't get Republicans to block a reconciliation bill (which takes only 1 Senator to do), when how do we expect 41 of them to unite to block a regular bill?
Logged
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,662
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2021, 09:20:14 pm »
Quote from: Hoodat on June 26, 2021, 09:11:30 pm
This has already been the case 95% of the time for the last half century.

If we can't get Republicans to block a reconciliation bill (which takes only 1 Senator to do), when how do we expect 41 of them to unite to block a regular bill?

That's right enough, and why I know I am right in stating that liberalism is not winning on merit, but is winning because it has no opposition. If the Republican electorate will not demand enforcement of their principle things by their representatives, there is nothing more that can be done.
Logged

Offline HikerGuy83

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,444
  • Gender: Male
  • Still Trying
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2021, 03:33:30 am »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on June 26, 2021, 07:25:39 pm
What would be the point in it?  He votes with Chuck consistently.

Apparently not on the fillibuster issue.

I could be wrong.....though.

If I am, please let me know.
Logged

Offline HikerGuy83

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,444
  • Gender: Male
  • Still Trying
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2021, 03:34:50 am »
Quote from: roamer_1 on June 26, 2021, 07:51:20 pm
Other than retaining the filibuster and stuff like that, fairly important to the party out of power. I don't have to agree with them on ANYTHING else, but if they stand in that defense against terrible pressure, credit is due.

Wow....

I didn't think I'd see that here.

Thank you.
Logged

Offline HikerGuy83

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,444
  • Gender: Male
  • Still Trying
Re: Manchin And Sinema Deserve Our Support On the Filibuster
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2021, 03:36:28 am »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on June 26, 2021, 07:53:57 pm
Oh, I agree with that, but that hasn't happened yet, so let's see.  Let's give Manchen the same benefit of the doubt you gave Donald Trump, until he shanks the ball into the infield.

Donald Trump recieved the benefit of the doubt from 71,000,000 people (of which I was one).

Pretty impressive given the headwinds he faced.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
« previous next »